SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

[ZellSF]

From what I've read it's Mini>3>2>1.

Mini has to be modded for RGB
3 has to be modded for csync

You can supposedly enhance non-Mini SNES consoles by installing a RGB Bypass amp (RetroRGB).

Seems fine on my 1Chip 01 and 02.

Thanks for testing. I tried downgrading SD2SNES from 1.7 to 1.6 and it worked. I should probably file a bug report on that. I tried disabling ingame routines on 1.7, before anyone asks.

[Seraphic]

I might grab an RGB SNES-Mini just to compare it to my SNES 1Chip-01 system
But I guess there would be no way to still use my wireless ACCLAIM DUAL TURBO SNES Controllers with the Mini?

Also, does the SNES-Mini after being modded for RGB need CSYNC?

[Fudoh]

aren't we getting a little anal by comparing different 1CHIPs to each other ? They're hard enough to find as it is and I couldn't spot a difference between the 1CHIP-03 and -01.

-01 and -02 might need the vertical bar fix. -03 needs c-sync restored (if you need it) and the Mini requires a full RGB mod (which can mess with the video levels if not done correctly).

I don't have a Mini myself, but I had one over from a friend sometime ago and there was I wouldn't know why you rank it above the 1CHIP units.

[Fudoh]

But I guess there would be no way to still use my wireless ACCLAIM DUAL TURBO SNES Controllers with the Mini?

I would be extremely surprised if 8bitdo didn't bring a SNES BT dongle next. IR controllers - are you kidding me ?

[ZellSF]

Also, does the SNES-Mini after being modded for RGB need CSYNC?

I can't see the difference on my SNES between composite video sync and composite sync. I don't think the difference is important. It matters more to the equipment you're connecting it to.

But if you're doing the RGB mod, might as well just hook up composite sync while you're at it?

aren't we getting a little anal by comparing different 1CHIPs to each other ? They're hard enough to find as it is and I couldn't spot a difference between the 1CHIP-03 and -01.

My 1CHIP looks pixel perfect. I really don't see how the Mini could look much better, but if you like modding, might as well get a Mini.

Personally I'd go with a non-Mini 1CHIP so you don't have to do any modding.

[Seraphic]

But I guess there would be no way to still use my wireless ACCLAIM DUAL TURBO SNES Controllers with the Mini?

I would be extremely surprised if 8bitdo didn't bring a SNES BT dongle next. IR controllers - are you kidding me ?

At the time I was shopping around it was the ACCLAIM Dual Turbo controllers or these SNES Wireless Controller which seemed to have a lot of bad reviews. And the ACCLAIM controllers may be IR, but they work great (as long as you have direct sight to the console).

[Fudoh]

believe me: a BT dongle plus the SFC30/SNES30 controller will be a great upgrade. I'm really waiting for it.

[Einzelherz]

Add me as a person who can't distinguish an 01 from an 03. Both are using composite video for sync, I assume, since I haven't restored it on the 03.

[blizzz]

I haven't seen *any* evidence that there is a quality difference between the different 1CHIP revisions and the Mini. Yes, the 1CHIPs might have the vertical bar, but if you want to be fair you can't compare a modded Mini to an unmodded 1CHIP.

[blizzz]

"Reduced game compatibility" - You can play most games without issues. Hardly a tradeoff if you ask me.

In fact, the only confirmed game-breaking issue is the Super Turrican glitch.

The glitching in Rudra no Hihou is also quite noticeable. Not game-breaking, but certainly on a different level than the glitches in the first row of pixels like in other games.

[Seraphic]

Came across an interesting read about the Mini and 1Chip consoles with a lot of good information. http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=46303
He suggests that the 1CHIP-Mini SNES has picture quality issues also, which are ghosting, overdriven whites, and visual glitches with "some" games.
but it seems all 1chips have some game glitches and this thread suggests the mini has game slowdown: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43741

Also came across this video about vertical bar and noise issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jc_jSILuy4

Never really noticed the vertical bar on my 1Chip-01 but I do notice the noise in the background on darker screens.
If I knew how to solder I would try this, but in the video it seems one 220uf 25v capacitor solder to the voltage regulator made a big improvement.

[Guspaz]

Isn't that just resolved by just tying the R/G/B pins to ground through a resistor?

[ZellSF]

Really doubting the SuperFX slowdown claims. Without actual measurements, I doubt anyone could tell one slideshow from another.

[CkRtech]

aren't we getting a little anal by...

Welcome to the shmups forums. Am I right?

I will say (as I mentioned to ZellSF above) that there are some artifacts that show up on 1CHIP SNES versions vs earlier SNES revisions that are only caused by the fact that people are using a flashcart. And it isn't a matter of "Yes, but the flashcart works fine on the earlier revision SNES units vs 1CHIP...therefore the problem is in the 1CHIP" so much as it is the fact the design of the flashcart just doesn't work as well with the 1CHIP revisions. User keropi here had a post that described hardware fix for the SD2SNES: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p1059488.

I am not denying the possibility of issues with 1CHIP or SNES Mini revisions and certain games, but I will definitely say that there is misinformation out there regarding compatibility with certain games and the later SNES models that is solely based upon flashcarts in a 1CHIP/Mini. That is an extra variable that should always be accounted for before drawing conclusions.

[Gered]

Really doubting the SuperFX slowdown claims. Without actual measurements, I doubt anyone could tell one slideshow from another.

Agreed. I actually speedrun Star Fox 1 and have a very good feel for the lag in this game and where it really slows down and speeds up, and generally how to manipulate it. I have not noticed any differences when doing runs on any of my SNES's (have a 1CHIP-01, 1CHIP-02 and a SHVC-CPU-01.... none are modded). I suppose it's still possible there is some speed difference, but if there is it's extremely tiny and probably not worth mentioning.

There are two versions of the Star Fox game cart, v1.0 and v1.2. I can say from experience that they perform the same except that in v1.2 some of the levels are shorter because sections of these levels were removed and/or enemy spawns removed. Otherwise from what I've observed, the performance is identical.

[Seraphic]

Anyone know a place where you can purchase this PCB?
It will upmix the default 32khz SNES Audio to 96khz S/PDIF for better compatibility.

[mvsfan]

ive seen that before. try this.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/5NrKCmY9

[Guspaz]

You can purchase that PCB here:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/5NrKCmY9

The thread where it was conceived of (from L-Train) with the BOM and such is here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/740288/super-n ... cs-and-you

If you have a receiver that is compatible with the SNES sample rate, a much cheaper/simpler solution might be Borti4938's S/PDIF board, which can be found (among other places) here:

https://squareup.com/store/retrorgb/ite ... udio-board
http://www.videogameperfection.com/prod ... ade-board/

Or the source files:

https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-AddOn ... r/digAudio

[Seraphic]

You can purchase that PCB here:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/5NrKCmY9

The thread where it was conceived of (from L-Train) with the BOM and such is here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/740288/super-n ... cs-and-you

If you have a receiver that is compatible with the SNES sample rate, a much cheaper/simpler solution might be Borti4938's S/PDIF board, which can be found (among other places) here:

https://squareup.com/store/retrorgb/ite ... udio-board
http://www.videogameperfection.com/prod ... ade-board/

Or the source files:

https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-AddOn ... r/digAudio

Awesome, thank you for that information. I will have to make an account as you can not see the price of the board without creating a account.
With this board, in theory the audio signal could be wired to transmit with either TOSLINK or Coaxial?
Or maybe not since in the below video, at 17:35 the modder said L-Train designed the board for Coaxial.

Found a video of the installation too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOu-JNbWro

[Guspaz]

L-Train's current revision has pads for both coax and toslink: you can see a bunch of discussion about optical/toslink on that head-fi thread. I've only ever seen photos of Borti's board with toslink, but I vaguely recall hearing somebody talking about using it with coax, although I could be misremembering.

[Seraphic]

L-Train's current revision has pads for both coax and toslink: you can see a bunch of discussion about optical/toslink on that head-fi thread. I've only ever seen photos of Borti's board with toslink, but I vaguely recall hearing somebody talking about using it with coax, although I could be misremembering.

As far as the SNES goes, is it beneficial one way or the other to use coax or toslink?

[Guspaz]

I wouldn't think so, although I couldn't say for sure. As far as I know, coax and optical S/PDIF are pretty much equivalent in terms of signal, although optical has the benefit of being fully electrically isolated (no possibility of ground loops). I would imagine that you should pick whichever one your receiver supports.

[CkRtech]

I use coax on mine. He still uses the CS8406 as his output chip - it just requires an extra resistor. I believe he built that into the circuit so you can hook it up directly (D+ and D-). As is mentioned in the thread, it is a lot cheaper to "get away with" the simple CS8406 circuit. L-Train is also a forum member here, so you can send him a PM if you want.

[FinalBaton]

So what's the consensus on the best motherboard revision after the 1 Chip/modded-mini Super Famicom?
(I've given up on finding a cheap 1 chip...)

Is it the SHVC-CPU-01 mentionned on the previous page? That one pic looked pretty good.
I'll be playing on an RGB CRT monitor

[Guspaz]

I'm not sure there's really all that much difference between the non-1chip models, although the SHVC-CPU-01 looks very slightly better than the SNS-CPU-RGB-01, according to RetroRGB's screenshots.

If you're having trouble finding a 1chip, you can just grab a SNES 2/Mini/Jr and do the RGB mod on them: they're essentially the same hardware as the 1chip (but with slightly better image quality), and they're easy to identify since they look completely different than the first model SNES.

[ZellSF]

So what's the consensus on the best motherboard revision after the 1 Chip/modded-mini Super Famicom?
(I've given up on finding a cheap 1 chip...)

Is it the SHVC-CPU-01 mentionned on the previous page? That one pic looked pretty good.
I'll be playing on an RGB CRT monitor

Why do you think finding another specific SNES model would be easier? 1CHIP models aren't exactly rare, the problem is you can't tell from the outside wether or not it's a 1CHIP, but that applies to all SNES models.

[Einzelherz]

So what's the consensus on the best motherboard revision after the 1 Chip/modded-mini Super Famicom?
(I've given up on finding a cheap 1 chip...)

Is it the SHVC-CPU-01 mentionned on the previous page? That one pic looked pretty good.
I'll be playing on an RGB CRT monitor

Why do you think finding another specific SNES model would be easier? 1CHIP models aren't exactly rare, the problem is you can't tell from the outside wether or not it's a 1CHIP, but that applies to all SNES models.

If you can see the serial number you've got a good chance. UN31 and higher tend to be 1Chips. It's worked three of three times for me, so far.

[FinalBaton]

Why do you think finding another specific SNES model would be easier? 1CHIP models aren't exactly rare, the problem is you can't tell from the outside wether or not it's a 1CHIP, but that applies to all SNES models.

Because serial numbers. That's why.

Except for numbers that are on the edge, you can absolutely use that.

[Guspaz]

But are the serial number ranges as well documented for the other revisions as they are for the 1chip? By that I mean, it's well known where the 1chip starts, but are the beginning/end ranges of the other revisions as well known?

It seems like your concern is cost more than quality, which is fair enough. I don't think there's all that much of a difference between the various pre-1chip divisions, although I'll admit that all I've done to compare them is look at a few screenshots. I have a pre-1chip model myself (I don't know which, I've never opened it).

[nissling]

I'll be getting a 1chip SFC within the next couple of weeks so I can make some comparisons to the CPU-01.