Are CAVE games too hard?

[Skykid]

Slower bullets?

This. Seriously, play them after each other and see low rank BL move at a snail's pace compared to WL. Even the loop is relatively pretty easy in BL if the rank stays low. Also always having a hyper around to save your ass is a big thing too.

Yeah, if you let every hyper fall off the screen without collecting it or using it, and without increasing the rank.

[Erppo]

Slower bullets?

This. Seriously, play them after each other and see low rank BL move at a snail's pace compared to WL. Even the loop is relatively pretty easy in BL if the rank stays low. Also always having a hyper around to save your ass is a big thing too.

Yeah, if you let every hyper fall off the screen without collecting it or using it, and without increasing the rank.

No. Dying once in the first loop is usually enough to completely nuke the rank, and just dying once in a while is enough to keep the loop pretty tame too.

[Skykid]

No. Dying once in the first loop is usually enough to completely nuke the rank, and just dying once in a while is enough to keep the loop pretty tame too.

Well okay. Personally when I play DOJBL I push it as hard as I can, use Hypers in no less than 3's (usually) and attempt not to die, so I've only really ever experienced it being as mean as it can be. To that end I noticed very little difference between the two except the opportunities for hyper bridging.

Not worth debating too hard though, it's sublime and that's good enough.

We can go back to Trouserplank bashing now.

[DrTrouserPlank]

No. Dying once in the first loop is usually enough to completely nuke the rank, and just dying once in a while is enough to keep the loop pretty tame too.

Well okay. Personally when I play DOJBL I push it as hard as I can, use Hypers in no less than 3's (usually) and attempt not to die, so I've only really ever experienced it being as mean as it can be. To that end I noticed very little difference between the two except the opportunities for hyper bridging.

Not worth debating too hard though, it's sublime and that's good enough.

We can go back to Trouserplank bashing now.

Don't do too much of it though. I've heard it can make you go blind.

[dunpeal2064]

Fuck... That was actually pretty funny

[Paradigm]

Well okay. Personally when I play DOJBL I push it as hard as I can, use Hypers in no less than 3's (usually) and attempt not to die, so I've only really ever experienced it being as mean as it can be.

Everyone attempts not to die. Have you even cleared the first loop? Did you actually read what Erppo wrote about the rank?

I like it how you make yourself out to be this hardcore shmup player, yet have nothing but shitty scores to show for your efforts. Whose opinion do you think holds more weight in this discussion; Erppo with his 640m run to 2-3, or you with your 58m run to 1-5?

[Skykid]

Well okay. Personally when I play DOJBL I push it as hard as I can, use Hypers in no less than 3's (usually) and attempt not to die, so I've only really ever experienced it being as mean as it can be.

Everyone attempts not to die. Have you even cleared the first loop? Did you actually read what Erppo wrote about the rank?

I like it how you make yourself out to be this hardcore shmup player, yet have nothing but shitty scores to show for your efforts. Whose opinion do you think holds more weight in this discussion; Erppo with his 640m run to 2-3, or you with your 58m run to 1-5?

Lol, here comes the Thursday night loser with nothing to do but spout pointless and boundless provocation.

I never made myself out to be a 'hardcore' shmup player you gimp, and I've never ever banded about that I have anything except average scores. I'd ask you to point me to a post which details otherwise, but you can't. I have an average 1-5 DOJ BL score (91,692, 680 - EXY - 1-5 ) and I haven't cleared it, but I feel I've played it enough to have a conversation about it (if, y'know, that's okay with you?)

How about you go dig a ditch outside and fill it with gasoline, throw a match in and then jump in after it? That would be a fun Thursday night for you and everyone else I reckon.

[RNGmaster]

The futari video is all well and good, but if you want to pick apart everything I say then why are you bombing sections that you claim are easily avoidable?

It's call strategy. You need one.

Now this is kind of unwarranted on Skykid's part (I like you in general man, but that post was just rude).

I'd like to address my response to DrTrouserPlank: Even the best western players have spots where they are slightly inconsistent. Perhaps in the run in the video Icarus panicked, or perhaps he planned to bomb there anyway. I know it seems like a cop-out to bombspam a boss, but even with the bombspam he did quite well against Larsa, don't you think? If nothing else, he showed how it was possible to no-miss the boss with a cautious play style. It's worth taking on the entire game the same way - plan what attacks are too tough for you to handle, and bomb through them. Even the pros do it, so you have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Icarus]

Perhaps in the run in the video Icarus panicked, or perhaps he planned to bomb there anyway.

Calculated bomb distribution strategy.
1) First bomb - 2F(orm) 1P(attern) - is to force the parallel streams of bullets off to the side of the screen, giving more room to move.
2) Second bomb (2F2P) is timed to cancel the overlapping bullet pattern and to speed up destruction.
3) Third and fourth bombs (3F1P) is to nullify the fast spread pattern as safely as possible, also does enough damage to destroy the boss right after 3F2P (overlapping pattern with tap dodging gaps).

Currently, I require at the least four bombs to no-miss Larsa. If I die once, it's virtually a 2M as I don't have enough bombs to avoid the trickier patterns. I was aiming for the very least 0M5B (5th bomb would be for 1F3P, the tricky fast waves), so refining a 0M4B strategy helps greatly. If I can get confidence dodging the 2F1P, I can knock it down to a possible 0M3B.

At the moment I'm trying to remove all unnecessary bomb usage - st4boss is now 0M0B, unlike before where I'd need one or two - but I know I'll still need one for st3 boss last pattern.

Doesn't the WR holder bomb six times on Larsa on his 545mil run on XBLA?

[Skykid]

The futari video is all well and good, but if you want to pick apart everything I say then why are you bombing sections that you claim are easily avoidable?

It's call strategy. You need one.

Now this is kind of unwarranted on Skykid's part (I like you in general man, but that post was just rude).

Yeah, but it was a strategy! I've seen Icarus polish off Larsa firsthand so many times I know exactly what he's doing.

Calculated bomb distribution strategy.

See!

[Barrakketh]

I was under the impression that DOJBL eventually exceeded WL in difficulty, but not until the loop.

Of course I have never looped it, I just remember reading that.

But as Skykid realized, I was initially talking about DFKBL

Yeah, the increased amount of hypers makes the first loop easier, but the increased rank this hyper usage brings makes the second loop even harder than the so called 'white label'.

Well, the hyper usage only increases the bullet speed rank. What makes DOJ BL's second loop noticeably more difficult than WL's is that your extends carry across to the second loop and this increases your base rank. Of course, losing them in WL's second loop is it's own kind of difficulty

[DrTrouserPlank]

I feel this topic needs to mount a comeback.

I'm thinking of deleting the 'are' from the title so that it's a statement rather than a question.

[Skykid]

I feel this topic needs to mount a comeback.

I'm thinking of deleting the 'are' from the title so that it's a statement rather than a question.

Off topic usually has decent thread traffic. This thread would do better in Shmups chat (where it belongs really) so we can quiz you endlessly on what aspects of the genre you can't seem to click with.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I feel the use of the word "impossible" being employed quite readily in any discussion which might take place along with some much more colourful vernacular as well.

[Randorama]

I feel this topic needs to mount a comeback.

I'm thinking of deleting the 'are' from the title so that it's a statement rather than a question.

You would get:

"CAVE games too hard?"

Which sounds like an elliptical question. You need to move the auxiliary between subject and graded adjective, and cancel the question mark. You may use some colourful vernacular, but your syntax could use some practice.

By the way, if you have problems with CAVE games, you should switch to Raizing ones, to save on your mental health.

[dunpeal2064]

We should just change the title to "shmups are too hard, rpgs are right for me"

[O. Van Bruce]

I don't know why games who almost all the times send bullets directly to your hitbox (making an affordable stream) and with lots of features to cancel/avoid bullets are difficult... I started playing Cave shmups some 3 months ago and i'm about to loop dai ou jou and ketsui...

Play some classic shmup and you'll see what's difficult (and frustrating).

Anyway, it has been proved that you guys has some kind of weakness for this man... he allways do and says the same so i can't get how, after so much talk on the shmups chat, you keep giving the same excuses over and over...

[Siren2011]

Whose opinion do you think holds more weight in this discussion; Erppo with his 640m run to 2-3, or you with your 58m run to 1-5?

lol. Whoa, easy there cowboy! They were merely having a chat, not a heated debate...and what you said was absolutely useless for the discussion at hand. If he DID wave his e-cock around claiming he was hot shit compared to everyone else (with scores that obviously make his look laughable), then your attack would certainly be warranted. But confrontation for the sake of confrontation makes you look silly. (For the record, I've made the same mistake many, many times in my life.)

Anyway,

so I've only really ever experienced it being as mean as it can be

Huh? But if you're only using 3 hypers at maximum, how in the hell can you hit the rank ceiling? Ideally, using five hypers continually without deaths should make the rank soar much higher. But then again, I am only familiar with white label.

On another note, this shouldn't surprise me considering everything I've seen on the internet, but I am stunned that people are still giving DrTittyPrick their time. This thread should have ended ages ago.

[iconoclast]

DTP's posts have provided me with lots of entertainment, don't hate.

[Paradigm]

But confrontation for the sake of confrontation makes you look silly.

Exactly, which is why you look a dick right now.

It wasn't about confrontation, it was about Skykid making a naive comment when he'd have been better off just listening to Erppo.

[Siren2011]

Sup, fagot. I love how you didn't bother addressing this point:

If he DID wave his e-cock around claiming he was hot shit compared to everyone else (with scores that obviously make his look laughable), then your attack would certainly be warranted.

...because it's obviously correct. And admitting to that would prove your post useless (though it kinda does that on it's own). Instead you dig yourself into a deeper hole, when the fact of the matter is, your hostile attack was absolutely retarded. Keep trying to be tough. Grr. *yawn.gif, kitty.gif, etc.gif*

It wasn't about confrontation

You don't say? I guess that's why you attacked his scoring capabilities. Get a load of this guy. Fucking sad idiot doesn't even know what he wrote.

[Zeether]

Sup, Icycalm 2.0?

Also, you spelled "faggot" wrong.

[Skykid]

lol. Whoa, easy there cowboy! They were merely having a chat, not a heated debate...

This is really old news now folks, but yeah, I was under the impression we were simply discussing aspects of the game.

It wasn't about confrontation, it was about Skykid making a naive comment when he'd have been better off just listening to Erppo.

No, the tone of your comment was unnecessary and gay, and not the first time you've been abrasive. However, you did incense me to clear a game I always meant to, and boost my score to a respectable (I hope!) 170mil, so I'm not entirely ungrateful.

[Zeether]

This thread sure is going places.

[Paradigm]

No, the tone of your comment was unnecessary and gay, and not the first time you've been abrasive.

That's not the part he quoted though, is it?

Point is, you don't like admitting when you're wrong and so you made a dumb comment about hypers and 'attempting not to die' (lol) instead to try and back yourself up. Surely Erppo has played the game at a higher rank and knows what he's talking about.

Hardly one to talk about abrasiveness though are you considering all your bitchy little remarks toward Elixir.

[Skykid]

No, the tone of your comment was unnecessary and gay, and not the first time you've been abrasive.

That's not the part he quoted though, is it?

Point is, you don't like admitting when you're wrong and so you made a dumb comment about hypers and 'attempting not to die' (lol) instead to try and back yourself up. Surely Erppo has played the game at a higher rank and knows what he's talking about.

Hardly one to talk about abrasiveness though are you considering all your bitchy little remarks toward Elixir.

You really are a bit of a dickmuncher aren't you?

Siren, carry on.

[Zeether]

siren should just sign up on icy's forums since he seems to love sucking his dick so much

[Estebang]

siren should just sign up on icy's forums since he seems to love sucking his dick so much

Probably doesn't want to shell out the 25 euros.

[Paradigm]

I have indeed been banned from Insomnia for not understanding the first thing about supporting critical claims with reasoning. The instant I was banned, I was humiliated, and didn't bother to finish my essay for English Composition. Just stayed in my room and slept.

[Zeether]

I have indeed been banned from Insomnia for not understanding the first thing about supporting critical claims with reasoning. The instant I was banned, I was humiliated, and didn't bother to finish my essay for English Composition. Just stayed in my room and slept.

lol