9th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Bee Cool]

It's obviously bias. >_>
I suggest making a new rule for this year: no top 25 list may include more than 5 entries per company. If you can't do that, then it's probably pretty easy to tell you haven't played enough shmups!

I kinda dislike the idea on principal, but it's probably worth it to get rid of some of the Cave.

(Seriously, 11 Cave games in the top 25, 8 in the honorable mentions? Hell no! Cave only has three games that are even remotely worthy of a "best of" list, anyways.)

Did someone drop you two on your respective heads? Do you understand that this is an opinion poll? Do you understand that your opinion of what should make the top 25 doesn't and shouldn't hold more weight than anyone elses in an opinion poll?

How would it make any sense to try and force an OPINION poll to suit your feelings? The whole goal is get an accurate representation of the board's taste, there was no objective criteria or arguments to get any shmup a vote.

Be mad at the forum, not the poll.

[Jeneki]

The poll was from ~August 2011 right? Cave was still churning out console ports, so they were fresh on everyone's mind. Seems easy enough to explain.

It's not like it caused something unspeakably horrible to happen, like push Soukyugurentai off the list. Oh, wait ...

[Mero]

Incognescente has relinquished his modding duties and perhaps isn't around much anymore, maybe another poll isn't going to happen (unless someone else picks up the baton).

[Mortificator]

I don't give more than a glance to the calculated top 25, but the individual lists of frequent posters can be illuminating. Some guys have impeccable taste.

[Friendly]

I don't give more than a glance to the calculated top 25, but the individual lists of frequent posters can be illuminating. Some guys have impeccable taste.

Your list actually demonstrates a broad knowledge of the genre. This one below yours is by someone who doesn't seem to have played a whole lot of shmups (probably mostly recent stuff).
That's the problem really: It's like holding a popular vote for the best music ever. If you did, you'd most likely end up with a list at least half of which would consist of current pop music.
That may not be an entirely fair comparison because Cave's shooters are actually highly refined and well-crafted, and even if one is not a fan of bullet hell games, that point has to be conceded. But they are a bit of a one-trick pony (I would love for them to create a non-danmaku shooter, but how likely is that), and there is so much more out there that also should be taken into consideration when trying to come up with a list of the best shmups of ALL TIME. Of course if all you have played are recent games, then you can't and won't.

[KyoKusagani1999]

So.. Battle Garegga at the top yet again.. I have such Mixed feelings about it,
but I can understand where people come from when they say it's the best.
Those "Realistic Bullets" really made it unfairly difficult, as I found myself
wondering what invisible crap is hitting me over a Background that makes
the bullets blend in.


Type 2, on the other hand, Fixed this Problem! I've got all the respect in the world
for it since they took the time to fix something that was obviously a balance-breaker.
Way to Go, RAIZING!

[Friendly]

@KyoKusagani1999

This topic is about the 2011 poll. There wasn't one in 2012 because nobody cared enough.

[Kollision]

This topic is about the 2011 poll. There wasn't one in 2012 because nobody cared enough.

That's what I was wondering myself.
Shame on us.

[though I always complain at the results]

[mesh control]

nothing matters

[soupbones]

Time for 2012?

Would love to see this. A good amount of shooters have been released since the last list, and would be interesting to see how the forum's tastes have changed... or not.

Even the logo got updated.

[ST Dragon]

It's obviously bias. >_>
I suggest making a new rule for this year: no top 25 list may include more than 5 entries per company. If you can't do that, then it's probably pretty easy to tell you haven't played enough shmups!

I concur!

[ST Dragon]

It's obviously bias. >_>
I suggest making a new rule for this year: no top 25 list may include more than 5 entries per company. If you can't do that, then it's probably pretty easy to tell you haven't played enough shmups!

I concur!

[ST Dragon]

Are you saying that people who voted are biased or are you saying that it's sad that no other company than Cave make good shmups?

Yes, they're obviously biased towards some specific companies.

[Anesthetize]

Are you saying that people who voted are biased or are you saying that it's sad that no other company than Cave make good shmups?

Yes, they're obviously biased towards some specific companies.

It's ok to be biased in a poll, since you're voting on YOUR favorite shmups. There are plenty of people that don't like bullet hell shmups, and it wouldn't make sense to force them to vote for at least one bullet hell in their top 25 or something like that. If someone prefers bullet hells, and especially likes Cave's, there is no reason that person shouldn't be able to vote as many of Cave's games in their top 25 as they want.

If the majority of the forum is biased towards Cave (not saying it is), then the poll results should reflect that.

[louisg]

Maybe. I would still argue that if your list is over 50% one specific company, it likely reflects a lack of experience. It's like if you have a top 25 horror movies list and someone has picked mostly Hitchcock movies.

To those people, I'd say: Branch out! You'll find more stuff out there that you like than you knew existed. Trust me.

[Bee Cool]

How the hell can you decide if someone's personal taste is too biased, what is inherently wrong with someone liking a certain style of games over others? I like arena FPS, so my list of favorite FPS titles would barely have any realistic games, but does that mean I don't get an opinion because I have a strong preference? You're insane, forcing "equality" in a fucking opinion poll defeats the reason to have one in the first place.

[louisg]

How the hell can you decide if someone's personal taste is too biased, what is inherently wrong with someone liking a certain style of games over others? I like arena FPS, so my list of favorite FPS titles would barely have any realistic games, but does that mean I don't get an opinion because I have a strong preference? You're insane, forcing "equality" in a fucking opinion poll defeats the reason to have one in the first place.

Because there's a difference between Cave games (developer) and Manic Shooters (the sub-genre that Cave makes), just like there's a difference between memorization-heavy side-view shmups and Konami, even though Konami made a lot of them. Now, if someone was suggesting that if liking only manics means you're inexperienced, then I'd agree with you.

But this is more like saying, "I only like platformers that Nintendo published". As good as Mario is, if I made a "top 10 platformers" that were nothing but Nintendo properties and posted it on a platformers forum where members had thoroughly explored the genre, people would rightfully think that I should *probably* check out games by other developers. Especially by the time they got down to "Yoshi's Story" on my list

[AntiFritz]

What if you had played every shmup in existence but still only voted for caves games?

[trap15]

What if you had played every shmup in existence but still only voted for caves games?

Then you're a nutcase.

[AntiFritz]

What if you had played every shmup in existence but still only voted for caves games?

Then you're a nutcase.

For having an opinion?

[Rob]

Take a stand.

You're insane, forcing "equality" in a fucking opinion poll defeats the reason to have one in the first place.

Have you noticed the "rules" list in the voting posts? It was never some kind of free for all to begin with. The number of games you can select: limited. The types of games you can select: limited.

[Anesthetize]

Maybe. I would still argue that if your list is over 50% one specific company, it likely reflects a lack of experience. It's like if you have a top 25 horror movies list and someone has picked mostly Hitchcock movies.

To those people, I'd say: Branch out! You'll find more stuff out there that you like than you knew existed. Trust me.

I do agree with this. I fully support the idea of branching out, and have certainly played quite a wide range of shmups myself, and indeed like a wide range of shmups. I just wanted to express that bias in an opinion poll is perfectly ok (I didn't even vote in the poll, btw, just wanted to join in on the convo).

[Bee Cool]

Have you noticed the "rules" list in the voting posts? It was never some kind of free for all to begin with. The number of games you can select: limited. The types of games you can select: limited.

Those are very basic rules, we have to make a line in the sand somewhere for what games we mean when we say shmups. That would have to happen for really any poll about favorites of a genre, genre labels are obviously not discrete so it is a necessary rule for the poll to even make sense. The number of games listed is also necessary for tabulating scores, 25 was an arbitrary decision but it does not infringe on the users freedom of choice more than necessary, and it doesn't discriminate between voters. The suggestion that your choices must fall in line with someone's concept of balance is absurd.

Do you see the difference between essential rules and saying "I demand that you pick games from this developer or sub-genre so that your list doesn't upset me"?

Why not just create a closed poll where you only select people you deem experienced enough to vote (through a lengthy interview process) and then just circle jerk to your amazing tastes?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Wow, you sure are mad. How is limiting voting to 5 games per company any more restrictive than having to play 40 games in order to be allowed to vote in the first place? I mean after all, it is entirely possible someone might be able to find their favorite 25 shmups without ever playing anything else.

[Mortificator]

BC, no one is going to stop you from making whatever list you want with whatever you like on it. Here's my top 25 shmups list (sponsored by FREEDOM!):

1. cake
2. sex
3. sexcake
4. Dodonpachi

[Rob]

Do you see the difference between essential rules and saying "I demand that you pick games from this developer or sub-genre so that your list doesn't upset me"?

One is a quote from an imaginary man.

[Friendly]

Do you see the difference between essential rules and saying "I demand that you pick games from this developer or sub-genre so that your list doesn't upset me"?

One is a quote from an imaginary man.

Hey, no need to involve god.

[Skykid]

Do you see the difference between essential rules and saying "I demand that you pick games from this developer or sub-genre so that your list doesn't upset me"?

One is a quote from an imaginary man.

Hey, no need to involve god.

Dat humour.

[ancestral-knowledge]

invisible man in the sky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE

[Paradigm]

Every game on your list should be a Cave game, otherwise it just means you don't have enough experience with Cave games.

P.S. Bee Cool is 100% right.