XBOX 360 - 240p Video Conversion?

[_rm_]

If you want better (as in true 15khz 240p) you need a proper scan converter (Emotia, UVC, Genius). If you're using VGA + SLG right now, a simple interface offset change won't make you happy.

Scart is 15khz with 480i (240 lines per field), VGA is 31khz with 480p (480 lines per frame). The first chain is a 15khz signal, but it's not a proper 240p signal. It's still a 480i signal with each other field moved up/down one line to mimic a 240p signal. It gives you scanlines like a true 240p signal, but it will show noticable flicker. Certainly won't satisfy you, since you're used to a proper (as in stable) 480p signal already.

Thanks a lot Fudoh, your explanation makes perfect sense.

I will take a closer look at those devices as i've read about them before on your site.

Cheers

[BuckoA51]

Since we're on the subject of these interfaces again, here's something I've noticed. Changing sync polarity affects how they affect interlace.. let me give you an example:-

Extron 580xi - Neg sync switch down - DDSP needs to be ON to pass interlace (pass it through as in not convert it).
Extron 580xi - Neg sync switch UP - DDSP needs to be OFF to pass interlace (though the ADSP feature doesn't work with well with it anyway).

[_rm_]

I've been doing a bit of reading in the last couple of days and i think i found something that will work for me, but still have a doubt and would like to hear you guys:

My main goal is to connect my Xbox 360 (i currently have the official VGA cable) and eventually a PC to my PVM and particularly to my arcade cabinet with a Trisync monitor.

I think the following chain will do the trick = Xbox360>Extron VSC>Extron RGB> Arcade cab
Although not a pure 240p, the VSC will reduce the flicker in the image.

My question (besides hearing your thoughts on all of this) is what cable should i use to connect the Extron VCS to the Extron RGB and finally the RGB to the monitor (i have a VGA plug on my chassis). Will this cable do the trick?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-1-5M-VGA-HD ... 27c34bcf64

EDIT - I'm not considering the Emotia right now because it is a little bit more expensive and doesn't accept higher resolutions. I will have to import all the equipment from overseas because it seems hard to find them in Europe or the ones i find are also very expensive.

[scrilla4rella]

So I just purchased an Extron RGB 580xi to display XBOX 360 Cave shooters on my BVM-1910. I haven't been able to get it to work properly (With any luck I might even be able to get the attention of the Hardware section's original pimp daddies, Fudoh and Faggin)

So far my setup for this is:
xbox360 (VGA cable) => Extron 580xi => BVM-1910 (via BNC component with h/v sync cable)

The image seems stabilized enough but the color's off. Based on my reading of this thread, I think the problem is a lack sync stripper (or similar device) and the lack of a 15kHZ signal going into the Extron. (VGA cable carries a 31 kHz signal, Extron 580xi needs a 15kHz signal)

Anyway, that's my understanding of the issue. If I got any of that wrong then by all means please correct me. It seems like there aren't many simple solutions for converting the VGA signal to RGB SCART, but any advice or feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Fudoh]

The Extron RGB 580 is not a scan converter. If you input 31khz 480p, it will output the same.

Makes me wonder why you get an image on your BVM at all (?)

If you want to use the RGB interface to do the 480i to 240p "trick" you have to make sure to feed 15khz 480i. Easiest way to do so is to use a component cable instead. Luma on the green input. Output set to SoG. This way the interface will accept YUV 480i and output YUV 240p instead.

[scrilla4rella]

Thanks for the super quick response Fudoh.

With the Extron RGB 580 the only input available is a VGA female plug. How would I use component with this input? Would I need a component to VGA converter for this?

[Fudoh]

just an adapter - something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311428083476

[scrilla4rella]

awesome! Thanks! It all makes sense now. I'll try to post some pics with the set up after I get it all squared away.

[Fudoh]

And before you ask: on the 360 component cable you'll find a switch which let's you toggle between SD and HD. If it's set to HD (which is the default) you cannot select 15khz output.

[scrilla4rella]

Thank you, I noticed the switch when I previously connected my 360 to my BVM with component, it looked so weird and gross (i guess because of the interlacing) that I immediately started searching for 240p solutions

[mR_CaESaR]

hey video experts!

Apologies to bring up the whole thread from the dead, but this appears to be the only thread I could find that talks about this pseudo 240P on the 360.

Since true 240p is currently unattainable for me with the 360 to my Sega Astro City (can't find an Ultracade UVC or Extron Emotia anywhere), I figured the next best thing is this "hack" using the Extron 580.

My current hardware is a Sega Astro City (Nanao MS8 dual sync), viletim's SCART to JAMMA adapter and the official MS Scart cable is currently in transit from the UK.

What is exactly required to achieve this "240p" for the xbox360?

Reading through the thread it appears I need the following:

- Sync Strike from Arcadeforge
- Extron RGB 580xi from eBay (cheapest I can find appears to be around AUD 50 shipped to Australia)
- A way to connect the BNC output of the extron back to the Arcade monitor. I'm thinking this can be done in two ways:
1. Get a BNC to SCART cable and then use the Viletim adapter but Sparda mentioned that this didn't work initial and then a cap fix resolved the issue (I don't believe the exact fix was posted unless I skipped through?).
2. Get a BNC cable to BNC, chop the ends off and then solder to a jamma fingerboard to passthrough the video signals? (not even sure if this is possible)

The connection plan is as follows:

PAL Xbox 360 output via SCART cable -----> Sync Strike output via VGA -----> Extron RGB 580xi output via BNC -----> BNC to SCART cable -----> SCART2JAMMA (controls will be passed through Viletim's controller board #1)

Is there anything else I require that any of you can think of before I hit the purchase button?

Of course if there's a way to get true 240p without paying an arm and a leg I'm all for it but sadly, I cannot find an Extron Emotia or UVC anywhere.

Edit: just read all if http://scanlines.hazard-city.de and I noticed the part about combining the Extron VSC series with the Extron RGB series. If this method is done, would the sync strike still be required?

[Xer Xian]

I wouldn't go for the Extron VSC+RGB interface combo. It's a clunky solution that still only gets you a quasi-240p output, and with added latency too - not worth it when there are affordable solutions that allow for true 240p downscaling. These mostly entails getting a scaler with customizable output resolution, and fiddling a bit to create a 240p profile.

In my experience, TvOne Corio2 scalers give the best result. Here's an example of 480p to 240p downscaling - hard to tell it apart from native 240p. The result is not as good with 480i - but that won't matter if your only source is a 360. Also, there's an added latency of 1.5-2 frames (with 480p material). Corio2 scalers are plentiful on eBay.com.

If very low-lag is a priority, you need to find an old DVDO iScan HD / HD+. Only 6ms of latency, but in my experience, the result is slightly inferior (see my post here). The iScan pops up on eBay once in a while.

[orange808]

Just to follow up on that, the Corio2 latency is very similar to a Framemeister. I measure 23ms of delay on mine.

I've found that to be very manageable when feeding a CRT.

[Xer Xian]

Yeah, and by the way, thanks for mentioning TvOne's scalers around here in the past - that's how I got to know about them.

[mR_CaESaR]

The only corio2's I can find on ebay are over 1.2k AUD. That's far too much out of my budget

[Xer Xian]

Scalers with Composite, S-Video, Component, RGB inputs: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 29&_sop=15

Scalers with Component and RGB inputs: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 29&_sop=15

All of them have analog RGB and Component output. The 1T-C2-750 (the one I have) has digital inputs and output as well. I've had the 1T-C2-400 too, there's very little difference between them for this specific application. The only thing that might be of relevance for you is that the C2-400 does not have a Frame lock feature, but I've found it to be very picky (difficult to get it to work) on the C2-750 anyway. I once recorded a test video with the C2-400 and found it to stutter a bit, but it might have been due to my capture device or other factors - it was not a conclusive finding.

These machines have a rather clunky user interface. If you end up buying one and having troubles with it, feel free to open another thread here.

Edit: A little something that I forgot to add - the down converters (first search) have a flicker reduction feature - it's the same thing that the Extron VSC does that makes it worth it to chain to the RGB interface. And it might be useful for 360 games that aren't strictly line-doubled, for which getting 240p output to look right might be difficult - in this case, outputting 480i with flicker reduction (and chaining to an RGB interface) might give a better result. Sorry, I've not tested 360 games yet.

Late edits: corrected searches and specs of the machines.

[Xer Xian]

I've just tested getting 240p out of a couple 'troublesome' 360 shmups - Ketsui and Mushihimesama HD. Both of them are not simply line-doubled even when the 360 is set to output at 640x480. I think the result with my Corio2 scaler is still solid.

Ketsui: http://image.ibb.co/jURJkH/20180317_102534.jpg
Short video sample: https://vimeo.com/260549102
Mushihime: http://image.ibb.co/hSuSec/20180317_102905.jpg
Menu are rendered at high-res, so look bad on 240p: http://image.ibb.co/iWBOKc/20180317_103142.jpg
Game graphics seems fine: http://image.ibb.co/cer7ec/20180317_103835.jpg