Why modern anime sucks nowadays?

[GaijinPunch]

While it's a valid argument, I think we're kind of losing touch of the macro. I got all geeky on Youtube yesterday and watched Daicon IV after having not seen it for some 15 years. I look at that and see attention to detail and passion. Even if I go searching for something recent, I see the computer doing most of the work. That's my basic rant, although maybe not the rant of everyone in this thread. I'd like to be proven wrong though.

[rapoon]

I recently wrapped up Fist of the North Star, the whole fucking series.
In the past, I'd get to episode 100ish and stop. I finally watched the whooooole fucking thing.
And it's awesome. I haven't seen any of the other series. Then I went out and
got FotNS : Kens Rage for 360 and I've dumped >100 hours in it blowing people
up with my fists. so anyways...

[greg]

Yes, I also got way into the Project A-Ko soundtrack (Explosion and Spaceship in the Dark!!!) and still listen to that to this day.

Ha! "Follow Your Dream!" I have that soundtrack. I wonder if it goes for much these days. Prolly not. I have the 1st episode on LD.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yes, I also got way into the Project A-Ko soundtrack (Explosion and Spaceship in the Dark!!!) and still listen to that to this day.

Ha! "Follow Your Dream!" I have that soundtrack. I wonder if it goes for much these days. Prolly not. I have the 1st episode on LD.

I still have my copy of Project A-Ko on the ol' venerable VHS tape format. Still works like a charm after all those years. I'm surprised that some stores like Target & CVS still sell brand new blank VHS tapes. I'd have to assume that there's still a market for that type of old-school recordable medium in the 21st century era. Most retail stores, nowdays, don't sell new stand-alone based VHS VCRs anymore.

It's cool to be able to watch the entire Fist of the North Star anime series streaming on the Crackle.com site. Just watching the 1995 live-action film version of FoTNS is just plain terrible -- it's nothing like the anime series since it goes in a different route/scheme of events.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Chacranajxy]

hmm... anime definitely does suck now, for the most part. There's so little of interest out there that it's really just kinda sad. It's even worse if you tend to stick to the stuff that comes out in R1 land on DVD and BD.

I think the biggest problem is that producers are afraid to make anything too dark or serious in tone... because it doesn't sell particularly well over there. So instead of Monster and Ghost in the Shell and Texhnoloyze, we get more moe shit. Wonderful.

Obviously, there are exceptions. Baccano and Garden of Sinners, for example, were fucking awesome. But it feels like there are fewer and fewer productions like those every year. And even the shows that are the serious, action-y stuff I like tend to be pretty dull. Or have some annoying shit, like Raki in Claymore.

[Stormwatch]

I'd say TMNT 2003 is the most impressive animated series I've seen, in terms of animation quality and choreographed fights.

You mean the CG one? I don't remember much about it, but Advent Children probably puts it to shame in terms of action sequences.

He probably means the 2003 animated series. Traditional animation. I haven't watched it, but heard it's quite dark and violent, much closer to the comic book than the 80s cartoon.

I also didn't watch Advent Children, but the trailer was so absurd and over the top that it makes X-Men look realistic in comparison. I'd certainly take The Spirits Within over that junk any time.

[Barrakketh]

I think the biggest problem is that producers are afraid to make anything too dark or serious in tone... because it doesn't sell particularly well over there. So instead of Monster and Ghost in the Shell and Texhnoloyze, we get more moe shit. Wonderful.

You can mix a little bit of moe with dark/serious/depressing. See also: Madoka.

I also enjoy oddball series like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, though I'm glad it's currently getting a break because things were starting to get stale. Love the OPs.

[Stormwatch]

Princess Tutu shows how you can do cute and dark at the same time.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Obligatory.

[EinhanderZwei]

Watched Jin-Roh last Saturday night to make sure that it still kicks ass. Well, it still kicks ass

[doctorx0079]

Yes, I also got way into the Project A-Ko soundtrack (Explosion and Spaceship in the Dark!!!) and still listen to that to this day.

Ha! "Follow Your Dream!" I have that soundtrack. I wonder if it goes for much these days. Prolly not. I have the 1st episode on LD.

I still have my copy of Project A-Ko on the ol' venerable VHS tape format. Still works like a charm after all those years. I'm surprised that some stores like Target & CVS still sell brand new blank VHS tapes. I'd have to assume that there's still a market for that type of old-school recordable medium in the 21st century era. Most retail stores, nowdays, don't sell new stand-alone based VHS VCRs anymore.

It's cool to be able to watch the entire Fist of the North Star anime series streaming on the Crackle.com site. Just watching the 1995 live-action film version of FoTNS is just plain terrible -- it's nothing like the anime series since it goes in a different route/scheme of events.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Hey PCEFX, you can buy the series on DVD now which will probably look better. Also the New FoTNS OVA's and the 1986 movie. I was just watching the movie today for inspiration. Then I went and lifted weights for an hour. Yeaaahhh. "Hokuto Shinken is invincible." I hope the new movies get a proper Western release, one day . .

[Skykid]

I also didn't watch Advent Children, but the trailer was so absurd and over the top that it makes X-Men look realistic in comparison. I'd certainly take The Spirits Within over that junk any time.

Advent Children is absurd, the action sequences are cut way too fast and it's not particularly great on the whole.

But Spirits Within is appalling, I'd rather watch AC a hundred times over than watch SW again, and I don't even like it much.

[Siren2011]

The story for AC is shit, while the action sequences are good eye candy. Plus, if you're a fan of the original game, it's interesting to see the improvement in visuals from the game's CG sequences to this.

I hear you on The Spirits Within.

[Observer]

I had the bad luck of watching Spirits Within at the cinema. I remember some retarded popcorn kids wouldn't shut up until we all got tired and called the security guys to take them out. They pretty much ruined all the beginning of the movie, so that put me in a pretty cranky mood.

As the movie progressed, well, it's the cinema. Everything is big and sounds big so I thought it looked pretty damn awesome, just not as awesome as I had hoped. Plus then I read it was altered a bit when brought to the west (can't confirm if this is true, I watched it with the english voice acting thank god, no horrid spanish dub, something they are force-feeding us now).

I watched it a couple of weeks ago again on Universal Channel and I was amazed to see that the movie looks like today's cutscenes, only the movement was much stiffer back then. I don't know you, guys, but the movie might have flopped but here it was quite well received, an interesting experiment at least. It didn't age well at all though and, as years go by, the surrounding flaws became more and more pronounced...

Whatever, Redline, god dammit. I so want to watch this movie!!! That priceless announcer sounds like he came straight out from a Raizing game!

[xbl0x180]

I never liked series where the protagonists were kid pilots in war settings. It's a terrible story element. I grew up watching Armored Trooper Votoms, so I was more into rugged/tough, hard-boiled protagonists who have the benefit of life experience in order to understand where they're coming from and why they act/behave a certain way. Hence, once Evangelion became a hit, I pretty much bailed on watching this stuff... or became more discriminating as to what I would spend my money and time on. On the technical side of things: once cg/cgi became more popular in use in movies and shows, I saw it as a sign things had hit rock-bottom (i.e., as in that revolting Appleseed video). Lastly, two words put the nail on the coffin: Tenchi Muyo! Wow, that was just horrible. I mean... no... I can't watch more than five minutes of this junk before switching it off. Jesus h. Anyway, Japanese cartoons haven't been good for about 15 years or so.

[xbl0x180]

Perfect Blue, while not very fullfilling, wasn't bad in terms of pure filmmaking. Satoshi Kon works, however, lack compassion and attatchment to the world of living necessary to breath life into stories he tries to tell. Perhaps he'd have been better off making unblushingly infantile giallo slashers rather than "psychological" cinema...

Man, you say that as if it were a bad thing. Who doesn't wanna watch some highly-stylised, glossy slasher thriller with a fine-tuned Prog score by Goblin or a Loungeorama soundtrack by Ennio Morricone and Riz Ortolani? All Perfect Blue needed was music by Pino Donaggio to be perfect

[Obiwanshinobi]

I was under the impression that Satoshi Kon tried to make "deep" films too hard for his capabilities. I don't use words like "deep" and "shallow" too often as one man's deep is another man's pretentious and all that. The thing is, to me watching his stuff was like listening to somebody making up stories about people he doesn't have much in common with, in terms of life experience and state of mind.

Lastly, two words put the nail on the coffin: Tenchi Muyo! Wow, that was just horrible. I mean... no... I can't watch more than five minutes of this junk before switching it off. Jesus h. Anyway, Japanese cartoons haven't been good for about 15 years or so.

Which series? Two first OAVs (1992-1995) would be somewhere around my top ten. The first series had very weak first episode (not revoltingly bad; just extremely unremarkable), but the second episode sold the lot to me.

[xbl0x180]

Well, I have an affinity for the exploitative aspects of gialli, so Perfect Blue fits like hand-in-glove. Seriously, it's the stuff Sergio Martino wished he coulda done... oh, wait, I think he did when he made Tutti I Colori Del Buio.



I can watch Edwige Fenech get chased around all over Rome any time, any day



Back to the other comment. I don't know which episode it was, but this thing was hot back in the mid-90s. Otaku were falling all over themselves for it. It's funny, but I see the same kind of revulsion towards those moe cartoons discussed here that I had when I first catched an episode of Tenchi Muyo! and the fanbase it pandered to. However, I'm ambivalent towards what is good and what is bad in anything. I can dislike something that is good and enjoy something bad for whatever reason or whim strikes me. Hey, I know caviar and aged wine can retail for big money and they are considered some of the "best" in food, but sometimes I feel like having McDonald's fries and sundaes - horrible food by any standard

[Randorama]

Ok, so it is clear: modern anime sucks because it lacks Edwige and Piero Piccioni's soundtracks (and Bianco Sarti-drinking characters)

[xbl0x180]

Ok, so it is clear: modern anime sucks because it lacks Edwige and Piero Piccioni's soundtracks (and Bianco Sarti-drinking characters)

Anime lost its MOJO!






I dunno. There might be something out there as cutting edge and strange as Tenshi No Tamago, "Wicked City," "Vampire Hunter D," Urotsukidoji, and Memories being produced, but since I've been out of it for so long I haven't heard about it. Nowadays, I'd rather watch animated shows aired on Comedy Central (e.g., South Park, Ugly Americans) and Cartoon Network (e.g., Regular Show, Aqua Teen Hunger Force).

It's not that I completely dislike the new stuff (I have slowly started to buy some series, movies, and oavs on dvd), but there's something lacking in it that it used to have before. For one, they took greater risks on marginal stuff that was really far out and memorable. For example, Dezaki Osamu would work on series based on famous books: Treasure Island and Remi are two that really stood out. Besides Dezaki, there was also the Miyazaki-led production of Heidi Of The Alps... hell, there was also the joint collaboration between Tokyo Movie Shinsha and the French studio headed by Jean Chalopin, which gave us kids' favourites, Heathcliff and Inspector Gadget, but who were also responsible for Ulysses 31 - quite possibly one of the best television series ever made (not just on the level of other animated stuff, but as a bona fide programme). Some of you may even remember "The Mysterious Cities Of Gold" and others might also know there was a cartoon series based on El Cid called Ruy, El Pequeño Cid. This stuff could be silly and childish, but it could also be smart and have an edge that most others lacked... with exceptions, of course (e.g., The Secret Of N.I.M.H., Watership Down, The Plague Dogs, Spike And Mike animation festivals, Soviet/Russian animation, etc).

I don't see anything remotely like that anymore. It's mostly what you've all been stating: dumbed down shows about some loser surrounded by little girls or - as it was in the 90s - dumbed down shows about dorky guys surrounded by older/pretty girls. The whole scene looks to have imploded into moe-hell

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't see anything remotely like that anymore. It's mostly what you've all been stating: dumbed down shows about some loser surrounded by little girls or - as it was in the 90s - dumbed down shows about dorky guys surrounded by older/pretty girls. The whole scene looks to have imploded into moe-hell

Those who've been stating that don't really watch what's out there. There's a shitload of stuff NOT like that at all released in this century. To name a few:

Kino no Tabi
Scrapped Princess
Haibane Renmei
Planetes
Gintama
Windy Tales
Hajime no Ippo
Sunabouzu
Tokyo Magnitude 8.0
Darker than Black

...and I could go on, really. That's a far cry from nothing. None of these shows fits your description of "the whole scene" whatsoever.

[xbl0x180]

You're right. I've already written that I pretty much stopped collecting and watching anime once Evangelion and Tenchi Muyo! were first released here in the U.S. Once in a while, I'd walk by the animation aisle at Best Buy (on my way to buy some gialli slasher videos) and this is the kind of thing I'd see on their shelves (not necessarily these, but similar):




I'm sure there were some excellent titles shelved in between this junk, but I sure as hell warn't gonna be seen anywhere near THAT section in public (it's bad enough liking cartoons in general don't exactly mix well if you wanna remain dateable). Ironically (or not), I've recently started buying some dvd sets from The Right Stuf, Intl. from their mail-in catalogue (how the hell did they track me?!). Hahaha. I think I ended up buying the same crap I detest!

"Maria Watches Over Us"
Nana
Strawberry Panic



Hahaha. Embarrassingly bad... I'll have to hide these if I have people over. However, I also bought both the series and oavs for "Irresponsible Captain Tylor" and the remaining Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2 videos, so I can always fall back on the stuff I know I used to enjoy watching



I may end up getting both Dirty Pair box sets by the end of this year. Looks as if Nozomi Entertainment are what AnimEigo used to be back in the early 90s. RESPEK

[greg]

Those who've been stating that don't really watch what's out there. There's a shitload of stuff NOT like that at all released in this century. To name a few:

Kino no Tabi
Scrapped Princess
Haibane Renmei
Planetes
Gintama
Windy Tales
Hajime no Ippo
Sunabouzu
Tokyo Magnitude 8.0
Darker than Black

...and I could go on, really. That's a far cry from nothing. None of these shows fits your description of "the whole scene" whatsoever.

Sure, there are some examples of decent anime to come out recently. Not every recent anime from the past 10 years sucks. However, the general tendency is towards the moeblob girls and effeminate boys for the protagonists, and recycled plots with no spark of originality. Comparing filler anime of recent times to the filler anime from the '80s, I'd take the '80s stuff any day. Maybe it's the nostalgia glasses, but I think that the stuff nowadays is far more "cookie cutter" than the older stuff, with predictable plots (or zero plot whatsoever), characters with way over-stereotyped personalities, etc. Old anime would have an occasional episode that had some T&A, but now it's become an artform in itself called "fanservice."

So overall, the quality of anime really has degenerated, in my opinion.

[PROMETHEUS]

It's really a self-reinforcing effect where anime is made more to pander to otaku freaks, so only the otaku freaks are left watching anime. Pretty soon it's all freaks, all the time. Doesn't help that they'll buy pretty much anything with their waifu plastered on it.

I think I agree with this. Long given up hope of finding anything new and good.

My favorites, which I keep watching again from time to time and never seen anything like them, were FLCL, Full Metal Panic - The Second Raid, Cowboy Bebop, Honey and Clover, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi.

I do miss discovering great anime like that.

[xris]

^ maybe dead leaves? paprika and paranio agent were good as well.

[xbl0x180]

Oh, yeah, I also bought "Honey And Clover." I consider that series NEW, not classic or old by any means. Same goes for Suzumiya, Full Metal Panic, Cowboy Bebop, as well as FLCL, which I disliked... A LOT (I'd rather watch Top Wo Nerae! GunBuster or Nadia)

Who do I have to karate-chop on the head to get me a subtitled version of Ningyo No Kizu?





It has an equally hard-to-find and really good score by Kawai Kenji

[Randorama]

I like anime, particularly (but not exclusively) sci-fi. Stuff that takes you places. Ideas that are bursting with imagination to the point where there doesn't even need to be dialogue, it's just a visual feast.

Is there anything nowadays like that?

Planetes.

[Obiwanshinobi]

It has an equally hard-to-find and really good score by Kawai Kenji

You should watch Windy Tales (seemingly the last genuine masterpiece from Production I.G), downright sublime, from Kenji Kawai's OST to the animation. (Sorry about the botched aspect ratio of that vid; couldn't find the track I was after, so just linked to that sample instead. The correct aspect ratio would be 16:9.)

However, the general tendency is towards the moeblob girls and effeminate boys for the protagonists, and recycled plots with no spark of originality.

Dunno, man, I hope those who use the buzzword "moeblob" actually have any idea about the popular shows out there. In Lucky Star, for instance, maybe half of the female cast have some moe points. Certainly NOT Konata, not Kagami, neither the American girl nor the porn-drawing meganekko - basically the geeky types. What's moe about geeks? Not much it seems. K-On!, on the other hand, is practically made of moe service.

[GaijinPunch]

Here's one nobody seems to have mentioned in this thread that I thought was dope: Crusher Joe

[Skykid]

Planetes.

Funny you should mention that, I just watched the first episode the other day.

I like it so far - it hasn't done anything particularly special, but then it's only the first ep. I remember seeing the manga for this in Japan in 2003 and thinking it had an amazing cover. Nice to see someone thought it was strong enough to turn into an anime.