DVDO EDGE - How it performs

[Fudoh]

by this do you mean they connect to a different input on the Edge?

yes, for 15khz RGBs you use the white sync input on the right of the component inputs and for 31khz RGBHV you use the black sync inputs on the left of the component inputs.

[BuckoA51]

Right I understand you now. Just to be doubly sure the Edge wasn't using the composite sync from the Amiga I disconnected the RGBC connector, 100% definitely works using the CD32's RGBHV 15khz signal and picture is definitely sharper. Shame about the tiny bit of wobble though. I really think this warrants further investigation, I'll get some pictures posted too when I have more time (have to get this darned ebook project finished).

[fagin]

If I get time tomorrow I will test the sync strike with this.

[BuckoA51]

I'd be very interested to see that, thanks.

[fagin]

You're right!

There is a marked improvement between RGBs and RGBHV.

The EDGE recognises HV sync through the Sync Strike, but strangely enough you get no picture with the HSYNC switch activated on the Sync Strike. The HV sync recognition is with the CSYNC switch on the Sync Strike.

I have tried this with a PS2 480i and 240p video.

[Fudoh]

I assume RGBs has the same quality as a component connection, while H/V sync gives a slight improvement over both ?

[fagin]

I have never fed the EDGE with a true sync signal and I wonder if this is what makes the difference... between normally sending it a composite video for sync.

Nice find mate!

[fagin]

I will double check component Fudoh.

[fagin]

I assume RGBs has the same quality as a component connection, while H/V sync gives a slight improvement over both ?

I can confirm that.

[BuckoA51]

Any instability/wobble on the picture when you used the sync strike with the Edge?

Really this difference should not be happening, this suggests to me that there is some additional processing being done to the 240p/480i signal when fed in through RGBC that's artificially softening the picture? Could this be fixed in a firmware update perhaps?

I have never fed the EDGE with a true sync signal and I wonder if this is what makes the difference... between normally sending it a composite video for sync.

I was feeding it a true/pure sync signal from the Amiga for both RGBC and RGBHV.

[BuckoA51]

Just a quick note, I fed a PAL60 240p signal from the Amiga CD32 through to the DVDO Edge and got "Unsupported Signal" with RGBHV, but worked as normal with RGBC and of course perfectly fine going Amiga->XRGB3->DVDO Edge......weird huh? Switching back to interlace everything worked again of course.

[fagin]

Any instability/wobble on the picture when you used the sync strike with the Edge?

Yes... massive amount on 480i (unusable in reality), but only very very slightly (hardly noticeable) under 240p from the PS2.

[BuckoA51]

Ah right I see, strangely on the Amiga CD32 I get no sync wobble at all with interlace picture via RGBHV. Seems like we're certainly in undocumented territory with this. Considering the limitations we've both found it's interesting but not really practical in most instances. Now if we could just convince DVDO to make the RGBC look like the RGBHV picture does, at least when game mode is on.

[fagin]

The plot thickens....

Just tried my Syncblaster cable:

480i unstable sync
240p 100% stable sync

EDGE see's the SYNC as RGB-CSYNC (as expected with the Syncblaster). Sync Strike shows as HV sync.

Picture quality is the same with both sync devices..... i.e. improved over RGBs input.

[BuckoA51]

Not sure I follow... The Syncblaster outputs RGBHV doesn't it? Are you saying you put your Syncblaster into the RGBHV inputs in the edge and fed them an RGBC signal and it worked?

[fagin]

And the next test.....

PS2 --> Sync Strike --> EDGE (HVSYNC) --> HDFURY3 --> SLG3000 --> DELL 1080p

240p game

Image is far superior to that of the RGBs input (back to back). I would go as far to say that with scanlines, there is virtually (minute amount of ringing) no difference between this and the XRGB-2+! It's pretty astonishing the difference between RGBs and RGBHV quality, even with the SLG3000 in toe.

The image is sharper, less bleed and the colours are more vivid.

Weird!

Certainly the way to connect for 240p video at least, when using the EDGE.

[fagin]

Not sure I follow... The Syncblaster outputs RGBHV doesn't it? Are you saying you put your Syncblaster into the RGBHV inputs in the edge and fed them an RGBC signal and it worked?

I was never sure whether the Syncblaster output HV sync.... this test would certainly suggest it doesn't as the EDGE showed the input as C-SYNC.

I fed the SCART RGB to the Syncblaster. Syncblaster to DSUB15 to phono breakout. Breakout to RGBHV input on EDGE. It would only register the HSYNC phono input on EDGE. VSYNC phono made no difference whether connected or not.

[BuckoA51]

I see, so just by using one of the two black sync connectors instead of the white sync connector (that is designed for composite sync) the picture improved dramatically? fascinating! This surely means that the Edge can potentially work very nicely with 240p material just ABT/DVDO screwed up the firmware somewhere along the lines.

Any chance you could try something like this?

Sega Genesis/Super Famicom/Other NTSC console->Sync Strike->Edge (RGBHV)->Display

Just want to know if that works, since my CD32 sadly gave "unsupported signal" when I fed a 240p/60hz signal into RGBHV (yet 288p/50hz worked fine, very odd I know).

[fagin]

JAP SNES

Sync Strike gives unsupported signal (whether CSYNC or HSYNC on sync strike or H/V Sync combination on EDGE connection).

Syncblaster gives picture with just the HSYNC input connected on EDGE. Registered as RGB C-SYNC. Connect both phono sync's and you get no picture.

Again picture is improved over RGBs input on EDGE.

[BuckoA51]

So the Edge accepts 15khz 60hz RGBC via its RGBHV inputs but not 15khz 60hz RGBHV...Talk about weird. I might have to write to whoever owns ABT about this, they would probably just ignore me though

[wildchild22]

Hi just wondering if on my dvdo duo (the edges big brother with cms) would I use the vga input? The duo only has a vga input for rgbhv not rca inputs for the rgbhv like the edge.

[BuckoA51]

For 15khz you mean? You'd have to try it with something like the Syncblaster/Sync Strike, though Fudoh said he tested this and it did not work.

[wildchild22]

I have tested the vga input with 15khz on my duo from a arcadevga pc card and it did show a pic. However I had a scrolling line from top to bottom repeating over and over. I did have both the h and v connected through on the vga maybe I will build a new cable without the v connected. I tested this a while ago. Also the duo can only accept a maximum of svga. I tried 1080i in form my sat receiver but the pic was way soft and squigly lines in some places. Not always just sometimes.

[BuckoA51]

Comparison shot time, sorry I only have a digicam to point at the screen, I'd much rather do this with a capture card but, even taking into account the fact I didn't get the framing the same each shot you can see a difference, first off, here's the Amiga going into the Edge via a SCART cable, playing a 288p game:-



Hmm, it's ok I guess, the Edge seems to smooth everything, maybe that's ok for video but not so much for graphics. Now, here's the Edge again but with the input fed in via RGBHV, still 15khz, nothing else in the chain except my Extron (which isn't really doing anything)



Ringing still quite pronounced but image much sharper! If only all 240p material was handled like this the Edge would be much better. Now for reference here's with the XRGB3 in the chain, so we are going CD32 15khz RGBC->XRGB3->EDGE->Display



Still the nicest picture and of course scanlines can be added, but the difference between 2 and 3 is not as big as 1 and 3. Bigger versions of these pics are on my flickr for reference (http://www.flickr.com/photos/32165624@N04/).

[fagin]

If I get time later I will do a similar comparison on the PS2 with screen captures. EDGE RGBs vs RGBHV, vs XRGB-2+, vs scanlines on all options. Should be interesting.

[BuckoA51]

I wonder if transcoding PS2 component to VGA is worthwhile considering the results we have seen here? I wonder if any transcoders can actually support transcoding 240p or 480i component to 15khz VGA?

[Fudoh]

Thanks for the screenshots so far ! I actually think shot 1 and 2 are pretty similar, just with different EE/DE offsets. Have you tried to mimic the 2nd result by adjusting those (only works with disabled gamemode) ?

I wonder if transcoding PS2 component to VGA is worthwhile considering the results we have seen here?

I don't see the point. Do you expect a plus over going 15khz RGBs to 15khz RGBHV ?

I wonder if any transcoders can actually support transcoding 240p or 480i component to 15khz VGA?

the XSelect does so, most other transcoders probably as well even if it's not officially supported.

[BuckoA51]

Have you tried to mimic the 2nd result by adjusting those (only works with disabled gamemode) ?

I haven't tried that no, obviously game mode is on when playing games, but I'll have a play.

I don't see the point. Do you expect a plus over going 15khz RGBs to 15khz RGBHV ?

As you can see above (all shots in gamer mode) there is a big difference in quality.

[Fudoh]

As you can see above (all shots in gamer mode) there is a big difference in quality.

sorry, you misunderstood maybe. I probably wasn't clear after all.

What I don't understand is why you want to go from 480i COMPONENT to 15khz RGBHV (which requires a transcoder) when you can go from 480i RGBs to 15khz RGBHV by just using a sync splitter ?

Talking about source signals, the 15khz RGBs signal from the PS2 is *slightly* superior to the 15khz component signal, so that's another reason for not using a transcoder. You can even use 31khz VGA from the PS2 by using an extron interface which transform the sync on green 31khz signal to RGBHV.

[BuckoA51]

Well, it was just a thought, remember I have PS2/Wii/Xbox1 and Gamecube all hooked up via component. I don't see how I can easily go from Component (including 240p/480i/480p) to RGBHV on those systems without transcoding.

Talking about source signals, the 15khz RGBs signal from the PS2 is *slightly* superior to the 15khz component signal

Maybe, but the RGBs signal won't output progressive scan for those games that support it, and I can't be bothered to cable swap.