Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

[Chaos Phoenixma]

So we have a mode that's ridiculously easy, and another mode that has stupid rank. This isn't sounding good.

[BulletMagnet]

We have a nice and complex rank system in the Arcade Mode. Quite similar to Battle Garegga, actually.

If this is so, then please PLEASE explain how it works openly (just toss a primer into the "how to play" menu someplace, to give us some manner of "official" reference) instead of making us guess the specifics for years until someone eventually hacks the game.

[evil_ash_xero]

So, the graphics and sound are done by Grasshopper, and the game mechanics are done by Digital Reality? Who are Digital Reality, and where are they from?

EDIT: I just figured out they are Hungarian. So, is Grasshopper not having anything to do with the programming of bullet patterns and gameplay?

Oh, and since one of the fellows who is working on it, is on here...please make a way to fast forward the cutscenes. We shmup fans hate those.

[Danza]

I tried to ask Suda51 about it when I met him at an event a few months ago but I couldn't remember the title for the life of me and ended making a slight dick out of myself

It looks nice, I'm looking forward to checking it out.

[mainfinger]

dpful, mainfinger, Mad Mage - thank you very much for playing the game and sharing your impressions!

No problem! Thank you for taking the time to answer everyone's questions.

[Sumez]

You have my attention Hoping this involves suicides (and maybe even some exploitation of respawn invulnerability for scoring). People can say what they want, but I personally find rank control to be a very interesting layer to add to a game, makes it feel much more dynamic.

I like rank control, but not when it forces you play insanely irrationally like Garegga...

[Randorama]

I like rank control, but not when it forces you play insanely irrationally like Garegga...

We of the Church Of The Rank Truth And Doctrine resent (COTRTAD) this comment fiercely *shakes inquisitive fist at random directions*

[Gus]

Any shmup requires you to play "irrationally" to score well. I don't see how suicides are any worse than hoarding bombs in Cave games.

[BPzeBanshee]

You have my attention Hoping this involves suicides (and maybe even some exploitation of respawn invulnerability for scoring). People can say what they want, but I personally find rank control to be a very interesting layer to add to a game, makes it feel much more dynamic.

I like rank control, but not when it forces you play insanely irrationally like Garegga...

It's an acquired taste, along with anything not made by Cave according to this forum, and indeed this genre according to the masses.

That said, I think if possible there should be a better way to control rank then just committing suicide which has been done and dusted. Possibly have some kind of scoring function that reduces rank slightly but over time does a better job than just killing yourself outright. You're not going to get 'casual gamers' into this by putting in that mechanic in such a way that it's the primary method of reducing rank, though having it somewhat there is helpful for if you genuinely die and get given a little break. Basically, do rank control around something OTHER than suiciding and extends alone.

[Sumez]

Basically, do rank control around something OTHER than suiciding and extends alone.

This

[Reiker]

That said, I think if possible there should be a better way to control rank then just committing suicide which has been done and dusted. Possibly have some kind of scoring function that reduces rank slightly but over time does a better job than just killing yourself outright. You're not going to get 'casual gamers' into this by putting in that mechanic in such a way that it's the primary method of reducing rank, though having it somewhat there is helpful for if you genuinely die and get given a little break. Basically, do rank control around something OTHER than suiciding and extends alone.

You do not control rank in Sine Mora by committing suicide (or, to be precise - this is not the encouraged method to reduce your rank).
I'm not able to reveal any further details regarding this at the moment, sorry. Will be explained officially at a later date.

[BPzeBanshee]

That said, I think if possible there should be a better way to control rank then just committing suicide which has been done and dusted. Possibly have some kind of scoring function that reduces rank slightly but over time does a better job than just killing yourself outright. You're not going to get 'casual gamers' into this by putting in that mechanic in such a way that it's the primary method of reducing rank, though having it somewhat there is helpful for if you genuinely die and get given a little break. Basically, do rank control around something OTHER than suiciding and extends alone.

You do not control rank in Sine Mora by committing suicide (or, to be precise - this is not the encouraged method to reduce your rank).
I'm not able to reveal any further details regarding this at the moment, sorry. Will be explained officially at a later date.

Thanks again for settling that worry. So long as there's an encouraged method of rank control that fits in all is well on this end.

[dpful]

Hi Reiker (was that you who I spoke to?) thanks for talking to me about the game at PAX! I ran off to get my pal (whom I was working for) who does the internet magazine, and when I came back, the kid there said you had just ran off to catch your plane.

There's a rank meter at the top of the screen- you can see what makes it rise as you do it. Using the time slowing button makes the rank meter go down if I remember correctly! I can only assume that you'd want to try and keep the rank up to get more points, or managed, to survive and get further points. On my plays, it seemed like I could almost get the rank to hit the top of the meter, and didn't see the results of the full meter (or the next rank level)- it was pretty hectic, though, so maybe I did. I wish I could play it again.

I can't wait for it to come out! The game seemed very well thought out! Please keep the details coming and ignore the suicide/cave debates (I'll admit, I've never killed myself in a shmup on purpose-- EVER). I'd kill to see what the later levels look like.

Noting again: you can fast-motion the cut scenes (all in the form of fly-by's around the envirinment). It's not bad.

[Icemael]

http://www.gamespot.com/events/pax2011/ ... id=6331580

There's about a minute of Arcade Insane footage in there. Starts at 5:00.

I have a couple of questions: is everything that's been shown so far from the first stage, and roughly how long will the game and its different levels be?

[Udderdude]

http://www.gamespot.com/events/pax2011/ ... id=6331580

There's about a minute of Arcade Insane footage in there. Starts at 5:00.

Getting hit lowers the time counter, but I think it should lower it even more.

[Sumez]

So if I get it right - there is no actual "player stock" in the game?
I think that's fine for a score oriented arcade genre, but if the only feedback on "death" in the game is losing time from a counter, it seems to me there would be a lack of genuine indication of how well you are doing? At least from a survival point of view.
....just like Ai Cho Aniki.

[ptoing]

The whole counter thing works well in Warning Forever, so who knows.

[stryc9]

I just figured out they are Hungarian.

Fetch a cloth would you Granville

[evil_ash_xero]

I just figured out they are Hungarian.

Fetch a cloth would you Granville

You know, I don't know what you mean by this. I had to Google the quote. It's from "Open All Hours", which is some Britcom, that I've never heard of in my life. And I don't know if that was a swipe at me, or what....since I don't know the context.

And now for something completely different.....

[stryc9]

Relax, I've been watching a lot of that show recently and felt the unstoppable need to use that quote somewhere.

The Hungarian thing came up and the rest is history...

[beatsgo]

A suggestion to Reiker and the Grasshopper Manufacture/Digital Reality: it would be cool if Sine Mora had a Caravan-like Mode with the implemented counter as a life bar.

[evil_ash_xero]

Relax, I've been watching a lot of that show recently and felt the unstoppable need to use that quote somewhere.

The Hungarian thing came up and the rest is history...

Understood. I was more confused, than anything.

[Skykid]

Props to the Hungarian boys!

This actually looks very promising from the videos, I think they're done very well. Gotta reserve judgement until I've played it, but it's graphically lovely and I like the concept of a Time Crisis/shmup crossover. Great sense of scale and adventure too.

[beatsgo]

I didn't know this, but I was wondering what Sine Mora means. I searched it up and it means "Without Delay" in Latin. Interesting...

[TrevHead (TVR)]

The forum is having its 15 minutes of fame, as we are mentioned in a Destructiod article. http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-sine-mor ... ml#comment

Also in the 2nd vid on TGS on Xbox Live theres an segment with Reiker where he mentions talking to and playtesting with the hardcore crowd.

I hope the TGS was a success for you Reiker considering the footage of 360 booths was a lot quieter than clips of the rest of the show which was jam packed with ppl.

[Randorama]

They obviously know their stuff, but they are also reaching out to the Shmups Forum and nobody knows the genre better than those guys

[TrevHead (TVR)]

BTW I know that it might be getting late in the development cycle but could you possibly include an enemy shot down % in the score tally, if its easy to implement? Im playing REZ atm and having fun trying to get 100% shot down, also the 1941 series had it.

[mice]

Out this winter? And when is that? Like, October? Yes? Pretty please?

[ptoing]

Winter technically starts 21/22 of December. But who knows, perhaps they say Winter but mean 4th quarter of the year

EDIT: Actually in the GS video the guy says Jan/Feb next year. So yes, very much real Winter. It actually looks pretty interesting.

[maxlords]

Can't believe I missed this thread. The screens from this one look beautiful, but Garrega-style rank makes me cringe. Please tell me that it's only a similarity or that there's a "play for fun" non-ranking mode as well!