Duality ZF (Xbox LIVE Indie Games) coming soon...

[Kaspal]

Despite the wait and the hype, it's really refreshing to see developers who are obviously dedicated to their project. Duality will be a day-one purchase for me.

i envy you... i wont be able to get any XBLA content... since i've been banned. if you go retail (i know you wont) you can get my 50 bux (20 is the right price!)... well, i'll be waiting for the PC version anyway.

[Square King]

Despite the wait and the hype, it's really refreshing to see developers who are obviously dedicated to their project. Duality will be a day-one purchase for me.

i envy you... i wont be able to get any XBLA content... since i've been banned. if you go retail (i know you wont) you can get my 50 bux (20 is the right price!)... well, i'll be waiting for the PC version anyway.

OT, but what's the story on you getting banned?

[Kaspal]

Despite the wait and the hype, it's really refreshing to see developers who are obviously dedicated to their project. Duality will be a day-one purchase for me.

i envy you... i wont be able to get any XBLA content... since i've been banned. if you go retail (i know you wont) you can get my 50 bux (20 is the right price!)... well, i'll be waiting for the PC version anyway.

OT, but what's the story on you getting banned?

my DVD drive is flashed (decided to flash it when i got a real sick hardware failure, and MS didnt want to give me support for it down here in colombia... i had to send the console back to the us to do so, and it was cheaper to get a new unit anyway, so i sent it to some "gurus" here, they got it repaired, and gave me the flashing "for free")... got 5 retail games, 3 copies, and 16000 MSPs (like 200 dollars) spent in games off of the XBLA... not a big deal actually, but i got caught, and banned.

[Xonatron]

A few new Duality ZF screenshots:
http://xona.com/2009/12/11.html

[spadgy]

Best screens yet! Looks great!

[Ebbo]

Okay, I think I’m ready to give my two cents about this title.

About the gameplay:
It seems that multiplayer has a very big role in your game. I’m just worrying if that role is too big: Will I have fun while playing this game alone? All I really need from a good shmup is a solid solo mode. I’m also concerned about the variety because all I can see in your trailer is an enemy wave after an another one, with lots of bullet barfs. Only background keeps changing. And despite of countless different modes and control options, the core gameplay seems to stay very similar, with only changes in firepower and enemy magnitude. Will there be any significant changes with e.g. score mechanics in different modes? Boasting with 96 different game modes seems pretty pointless, if most of them are just pretty much the same. But of course, it doesn’t hurt to have so many modes, since that way people can choose a specific mode fitting with their playstyles – right? This obscure amount of different gameplay options and the lack of focus can be a bit overwhelming too, at least for my taste. To put in short, in my opinion your game lacks personality and depth: It’s trying to offer so much to everyone, but in the end, will it satisfy anyone completely?

About the graphics:
I’m going to be a bit harsh here. It doesn’t look really that good. It’s not about the amount of polygons or anything like that, it’s the overall artistic design – or more like lack of it. There seems to be no distinctive style or color scheme and the enemies look rather bland in design. Especially the big enemies and bosses lack detail and to me, most of them look just an ugly bunch of gigantic boxes and abstract shapes glued together. The backgrounds have just as bland design as the enemies and the biggest problem seems to be that everything looks so clean and clinical.
And finally, the explosions. They look plain and boring. Especially the huge explosions. Or maybe I should say “the huge amounts of small explosions” as the bosses fall down. Those explosions are something I see in a random small GM project and I really expect XBLA title (this is something you’re aiming at, right?) to do better than that.

To most of you I probably sound like a complete jerk who can’t find anything good about this title. But still, I’m rather alarmed that hardly anyone has criticized this project hardly about anything at here. It’s just feels that this game has achieved some kind of “holy cow” status and nobody dares to pick on it.
Still, I gotta admit that four player co-op with eight ships in total is something I haven’t seen in a shmup. But more doesn’t automatically equal a better game. It seems that you guys are more concerned about the amount of online leaderboards and different game modes than the actual gameplay aspects or the visuals.

I think it’s time to end this rant with a bit more lighthearted note:

Ikaruga is cool. But it's more puzzle game than shmup. It has no power ups aside from a charge blast. And it has polarity. It's more about knowing where to be than reacting. In this sense it's closer to a bullet hell shooter.

In this case, puzzle games are my favorite videogame genre of all time . A shmup like Duality ZF clearly isn’t my cup of tea.

[TodayIsForgotten]

I do understand where you are coming from. I never thought the game looked amazing and i do agree and always thought the art looked odd. But, that doesn't bother me as it does look like it will be fun. The reason why I like what the game might have to offer is the dual play(which i know is not ground-breaking) and a more traditional old school shoot em' up direction.

[Jeneki]

After Xbox 360 release, we're shooting for a PC release via Steam which is highly likely (which requires customizable controls for all possible input types).

Since we've got PC-talk on the table, I'll bring up an older quote:

We had a clever 4:3 full screen mode, but disabled it in favor of the black bars (what are they called again?) because it unfortunately changed the difficulty (and therefore the scoring) of the game. More enemies are hidden off screen. Make them not shoot makes the game easier in 4:3. Make them shoot makes the game harder in 4:3 (as you can't see what 16:9 can see).

Most PC monitors are 16:10 aspect ratio instead of 16:9. Something to keep in mind. (and no, I don't mind black bars to letterbox the picture if that's necessary)

Also, if you want some ideas for how to make a game "fullscreen" in one aspect ratio, but with a playable area in a different aspect ratio, see the screenshots in this topic: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28406

[Xonatron]

We have a new video showing BOSS RUSH gameplay, with the (unlockable) MULTI-DIR controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHIY_2yL6Pw

Ebbo...

The multiplayer is not too big of a role. The game is designed to be fun solo play. And the trailer is now over 7 months old so the variety is fixed (and will continue to be fixed). A massive "redesign" of the game is going to take place to ensure this. I don't feel bad for you bringing this up, as this is exactly what we need to hear. The voices of the critics is just as important (if not more important) than those who just praise.

The score mechancies are the same in every mode on purpose. You get scored based on a multiplier that is the kill time, and the enemy value depends on its HP and attack amount (which is different in various modes) but the basically formula remains the same.

We are considereing putting a little "x2.3" multiplier marker next to each enemy killed (in that case it would be an enemy killed 2.3 times faster than the standard kill time).

The 96 game "styles", as we call them as there's only really 6 game modes, has now even increased. But this is *all* unlockable content that will not overload the average gamer. It will be locked and hidden safely away, so the emphasis will be on regular, single ship, gameplay. We call it SOLO PLAY to differentiate it from DUAL PLAY.

I'll be blunt, the game play will satisfy you, as is, if you are interested in getting the highest score. The challenge is always there, and it's tempting and fun. The game play will not satisfy you, as is, if you are interested in "personality", but that is exactly what we are working on improving.

The graphics will get an overhaul if we hit XBLA, but if we don't, they might not. That's the thing. The difference between XBLIG and XBLA is *huge* and we are simply not a big enough studio to get professional artwork done if we are only shipping to XBLIG.

We love the explosions, though. They are excellent in gameplay, and different from the over-used Ikaruga explosions that are found in every particle tutorial, which we find boring. It is not common to see the amount of pariticles and sprites as you do in Duality ZF, and when you sit down and play this at 60fps it will be more apparent. I'm on the defensive here, but I will reconsider the explosions, but unless that comes with an overhaul of the whole art design (hiring someone to do it) it's doubtful it will happen.

I appreicate your feedback.

Don't confuse our marketing efforts (ie, "we have tons of this and that") with our game development efforts (ie, the gameplay itself). You can't market gameplay, so we do what we can when it comes to promotion.

[ncp]

Visible score multipliers are a must, definitely add them, doesn't even have to be that small, to be honest, everyone loves seeing big numbers when they do something well. Explosions look damn awesome, although the actual enemy design is very plain, like Ebbo said. The game looks fun as hell, can't wait to try it. I personally do not like unlockables, however, but I can deal with it.

[kid aphex]

really looking forward to talking about this game on my podcast. whens it finally coming out?

[Observer]

I thought the explosions are great, maybe adding those big beams of light (think G-Darius/Darius Gaiden and the likes) when the boss is going down in full blazing glory... They are quite Macross like and that's always a plus for me.

I also like how the bosses stay on fire in the background instead of just disappearing. It gives you the sense that you just shot down a country-sized ship and not some cardboard sprite.

As for the multipliers, some people might want to switch them on/off so maybe having an option to do so will be welcomed (the typical "with/without" on japanese games). Not everyone likes to see numbers all the time, just the non stop mechanical carnage without numbers getting in the middle. But yeah, make them big, and could get bigger the longer you keep killing crap fast until they shoot you down.

Graphic overhaul... I actually thought the game had nice graphics that remind me a bit of a violent, furious and non-cutesy Flying Red Wine Barrel.

However, one thing caught my attention: "DUAL PLAY control unlocks when you beat all game modes in regular (SOLO PLAY) control."

The game is called "Duality", having that mode as an unlockable doesn't make sense. Unless I didn't understand that mode (or how it works). But I know for sure the first thing I want is to control two ships at the same time and tear down the hall with all guns blazing.

[emphatic]

We have a new video showing BOSS RUSH gameplay, with the (unlockable) MULTI-DIR controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHIY_2yL6Pw

That looks really fun!

[Xonatron]

I'll reply more later... I'm just hoping a bunch of you have capture cards or cameras to record some of your footage!

We *will* be having YouTube contests, which means the winner is not the one who gets the highest score, but the one who captures and posts it to YouTube. It will help promote the game, which means more competition and more fun for you guys, and also show game play footoage we can learn from as programmers and others can learn from as gamers. "Blind" high scoring contests never break outside of those who participate.

[postman]

Any more news on a release date?

[Xonatron]

We are currently working on a Duality ZF XBLA pitch to send off to publishers we met at this year's GDC (last week), and we'll have an answer to the XBLIG or XBLA question once and for all.

There is a chance we may release a cut-down version of Duality ZF on XBLIG and a full release on XBLA, if the publishers and Microsoft give the ok with this, which means a quick XBLIG release for you all to warm up with.

[Xonatron]

...in other news, we were interviewed at GDC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vulrWi3L6pY

[MrPopo]

...in other news, we were interviewed at GDC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vulrWi3L6pY

Old games slow and boring?

[Ebbo]

That line really stood out for me too.
Guys making "intense retro" games think old games are boring? On the other hand, soon after that Matthew started talking how classic gameplay never gets old. So old games just don't have enough firepower and therefore they are boring, even if the gameplay is solid? I don't really know.

[MrPopo]

That line really stood out for me too.
Guys making "intense retro" games think old games are boring? On the other hand, soon after that Matthew started talking how classic gameplay never gets old. So old games just don't have enough firepower and therefore they are boring, even if the gameplay is solid? I don't really know.

So he did seem to allude more to the 80's arcade games, which are slower paced because of the hardware limitations. If you look at their first game, Decimation X, it's basically Space Invaders with "More Power! <grunt grunt grunt>"

[Xonatron]

...in other news, we were interviewed at GDC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vulrWi3L6pY

Old games slow and boring?

That line really stood out for me too.
Guys making "intense retro" games think old games are boring? On the other hand, soon after that Matthew started talking how classic gameplay never gets old. So old games just don't have enough firepower and therefore they are boring, even if the gameplay is solid? I don't really know.

Even though it came out of Jason's mouth, I also have been ripped saying this, so I'll try addressing it...

A comparison of what we mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QObneYZIdKI#t=25s ("slow and boring")
http://decimationx.com/ (us)

Certainly slow.

But, boring?

Depends on who you are. Don't read into "slow and boring" too much. Gamers like those found on Shump Forums can appreciate old-school games exactly as they are. But, we have found reproducing the exact old-school gameplay, in terms of speed and intensity, turns off gamers, as they expect more today. Bottomline is, most gamers would find the original Space Invaders "boring", and not give it a chance. It's just hard to go into details like this and give an in-depth, diplomatic, answer in interviews.

I need to find a way to explain what Xona Games brings without sounding as those we hate old games. Obviously we LOVE old games. Isn't it obvious? I even said we were in love with them in this interview. Our entire game development process is founded on their gameplay.

[dmauro]

I'll go on record on the shmups forums saying Space Invaders is slow and boring.

[Jason]

I believe some of you read into it too much; consider that it's an on-the-spot question that requires a quick answer, without time for qualifying it much. Also, I think our definitions may differ. To me gameplay is not related to intensity. The gameplay of the original arcades have quick, responsive, arcade-style (for lack of better words) control and mechanics, which are totally unrealistic, but give the most "power to the player", which is our philosophy. Intensity is just the amount of action and craziness going on. The circles of these two definitions need not overlap.

For the record, I love the original Space Invaders. I love the TI Invaders clone even more (it's the best 'true' clone there is). I respect it, I'll play it, and enjoy it for what it's meant to be. I think most of today's gamers wouldn't give it a chance. Consider how much more is going on in the first few levels of Decimation X, and we've been hammered for them being too slow! Most would say the original S.I. is slow and boring.

Also, realize that I made a generalized comment. I don't think Mega Man II is slow and boring. My comment wasn't meant for all games.

[Xonatron]

I'll go on record on the shmups forums saying Space Invaders is slow and boring.

Thank you for the support!

[Xonatron]

New Duality ZF gameplay footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMZura9E-0

A build of Duality ZF, along with a pitch, is being sent out to XBLA publishers today. Wish us luck.

EDIT: I should also add that Duality ZF is a Dream Build Play 2010 finalist... great news to place in this contest again, second year in a row, which will help us have a stronger release this year.

[Kaspal]

New Duality ZF gameplay footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMZura9E-0

A build of Duality ZF, along with a pitch, is being sent out to XBLA publishers today. Wish us luck.

EDIT: I should also add that Duality ZF is a Dream Build Play 2010 finalist... great news to place in this contest again, second year in a row, which will help us have a stronger release this year.

my best wishes for you on this...

thing is, in case that you land a publishing contract for XBLA, are you gonna give discount coupons to us, the ones on this forum that have been nagging you about the game for like 2 years now? (i'm banned from XBLA right now, and have 600MSPs to spend... so i'd go as far as to get a new X360 so i could use live again if you do such thing... and to be able to play jap. shmups).

in case you dont, when will you release the PC version? i've got myself a new lappy, and would like to give it a go there...

[Xonatron]

The publisher will decide many things for us, so I'll leave that question unanswered for now. I'm not sure if we'll be allowed to give discounts, and if we can, how many and who will get them. They could be used in contests to better promote the game and whatnot. No offense, I just cannot make promises now.

All I can say is I appreciate all your help.

[Observer]

Well good luck with this, guys! Hope it turns out well and that Microsoft still retains a bit of humanity (just saying ).

By the way, consider submitting your videos/news to newStage or one of those shooter news sources. Although I'm sure some japanese will pick this up and spread the word.

Despite the guidelines of the publisher, I still hope we might see a boxed version (perhaps playing with the colours of the front/back of the case for the duality theme, etc.)

[Xonatron]

Good News: Duality ZF has been confirmed a top 6 finalist in Dream Build Play 2010 by Microsoft!!!

Observer, thanks for the tip! Explain newStage to us a bit!

[lilmanjs]

Good News: Duality ZF has been confirmed a top 6 finalist in Dream Build Play 2010 by Microsoft!!!

Observer, thanks for the tip! Explain newStage to us a bit!

I hope you guys do better than last year. that new trailer is very good and I love the music.