DUX for Dreamcast

[it290]

Before I can answer your question I've to ask you something.

Which memorizers do you consider as R-Type clones? I mean real clones and not just a hori with pod in front of the ship.

I'm asking this to you, because most people using the R-Tyle clone thing very to sloppy. Rezon is the only real clone of R-Type which I know but i'm sure there are more. I would not even say Katakis is one, because it's too different. Maybe its just hard to see the differents betwenn alle the R-Type like games, when you don't play those game enough.

I'm just doing an game within the R-Type sub-genre with modern features. Nor more, no less.

Well, I would certainly put the aforementioned Pulstar in the 'clone' category. To me, Dux looks a bit different but the weapons featured in the video are almost straight knock-offs of R-Type. How about some weapons not really seen in this type of game? I think the pod dynamic could be more fun with different weapons, more bullets, a small hitbox, etc. I'm not saying you should turn the game into a manic, but some modernization couldn't hurt. A bomb feature could be cool too. Again, not really original, but just something not often seen in the R-Type subgenre. Perhaps something along the lines of Blazing Star, which, flawed though it is, took a hint of inspiration from R-Type but otherwise made something quite new out of it.

Not very likely but not undoable either. Nevertheless, with that attitude there wouldn't be much games to play since you can harldy top the best games around anyway. So, topping a another game should not be the goal of any game.

Point taken, but you shouldn't necessarily be trying to top them in graphics, music, etc, but rather gameplay -- and it doesn't take a lot of resources to pull off good gameplay.

What can I do to make your worrying go away? Harder difficulty setting to select from beginning or just more harder loops?

Personally, I think both should be implemented. Two loops, with the second considerably harder than the first, is probably enough for this type of game (as long as the score mechanics are interesting), but a harder difficulty selection helps to extend its longevity as well.

[RHE]

If you show it to the public at that stage, it will get critisised. You might want to work on it a little longer before showing it to the public, if you don't want your feelings hurt next time. ;(

Critism is a good thing when it is added constructivly. There are already some improvents gathered basing on the respones from the early state video, so its a good choice to show that.

All of your critism instead was aldready stated here on this thread or just not constructive enough to be part of my considerations. I don't feel offended by your responses but it sounds rather then I'm hurting your feelings a bit, which is not what I want. I rather like to tell you, that you'll need to add critism on an game in development in a different way then to a finished product.

Giant floating boxes that bounce around like something out of a Quickbasic demo .. are somehow score-related. Uh huh.

In the final you will be able to control some of the enemies movements with that pushing box thingies to get them making a row and then blasting of that row of enemies at the same time will increase score. Really simple, you just have to think it a little bit further when I already pointing out there's more then just the video shows.

So you're saying that even though the enemy placement seems totally random, it's not because .. why? No reason? And then you say you have to improve it? So it is random after all? Make up your mind please. ;P

There's no randomness in DUX but still the enemies have to be slightly improved. I mean the game is just not finished so it's open for critism but not of the kind you do.

Actually, it's stange that you're saying all that about randomness since it perfectly applies to XOP/Black. The bullet puttern are almost randomly thrown on the screen by all of the enemies, and completly uninspired. I don't like the whole enemy splashing at all but that's my taste. So grab your one nose first, would we say in Germany.

How do psuedo-scanlines make the game less playable?

It lowers visibility. Why adding a line with zero information into the games sreens without any benifit? There's a reason why mostly 16-bit games have to do that. XOP don't.

Embarrasing? What the hell are you talking about? Yes, I'm completely embarrased that I added a fake scanline effect to my game.

Yes, it's effecting the game in a negative way. Just like glowing shrapnels in Last Hope, which isn't any better. But you can easily improve that any time.

Anyway, if you set the resolution to 400x300, the scanlines go away. Imagine that.

Without scanlines the games doesn't look better though.

When I see a video of nothing but popcorn enemies it seems pretty much like what I described. If you want to show that there's bigger enemies, put them in there and then show it.

I don't have to prove myself nor my game has. You doesn't seem to know much about R-Type gameplay anyhow.

Nevertheless, you can feel free to add furhter critism but keep it constructive.

Well, I would certainly put the aforementioned Pulstar in the 'clone' category.

I see.

I know the wep system is really close to R-Type but then, without those weps it would to far away from R-Type again. The bouncing laser for example is something I don't want to miss in this type of games. It just should be in any game of this type. However, it's more important how you can make use of weps in a game then just what the weps themselves does. The x-ray has a bouncing abbility which makes it completly different in terms of use to the comparable wep in R-Type 2. It may look close to that red and blue shot, but gameplaywise it's a complety different approach.

So yes, DUX will be more modern then R-Type but just not as modern as a manic game. I settle this game in between of the menioned type of games - proven stuff combined with modern stuff. Beyond stage 1 there will be much more bullets to dodge and absorb, so it's quite going in the direction you have described. The first stage boss should also show this a little bit.

Personally, I think both should be implemented. Two loops, with the second considerably harder than the first, is probably enough for this type of game (as long as the score mechanics are interesting), but a harder difficulty selection helps to extend its longevity as well.

I'm undecided about this. Loops will be impleted for sure now. But why then a selecable difficulty? This would only result in having a dozen of different difficulty/modes which probably turns off some players.

[Specineff]

It's going to have VGA, right?

[Super Laydock]

It's going to have VGA, right?

confirmed!

[it290]

I see.

I know the wep system is really close to R-Type but then, without those weps it would to far away from R-Type again. The bouncing laser for example is something I don't want to miss in this type of games. It just should be in any game of this type. However, it's more important how you can make use of weps in a game then just what the weps themselves does. The x-ray has a bouncing abbility which makes it completly different in terms of use to the comparable wep in R-Type 2. It may look close to that red and blue shot, but gameplaywise it's a complety different approach.

So yes, DUX will be more modern then R-Type but just not as modern as a manic game. I settle this game in between of the menioned type of games - proven stuff combined with modern stuff. Beyond stage 1 there will be much more bullets to dodge and absorb, so it's quite going in the direction you have described. The first stage boss should also show this a little bit.

I gotcha. I'm wondering, can you launch the pod in any direction or only forward/back?

I'm undecided about this. Loops will be impleted for sure now. But why then a selecable difficulty? This would only result in having a dozen of different difficulty/modes which probably turns off some players.

Well, if a player is able to clear the first loop of the default difficulty easily, but finds a good challenge in the second loop, they may not want to have to play through that first loop every time. Similarly, there are probably some players that would like an easy mode so that they can transition smoothly into learning the game, even if it is more accessible than Last Hope.

[RHE]

I'm wondering, can you launch the pod in any direction or only forward/back?

Forward and backward only, as anything else seem to overburden a lot of players.

Well, if a player is able to clear the first loop of the default difficulty easily, but finds a good challenge in the second loop, they may not want to have to play through that first loop every time. Similarly, there are probably some players that would like an easy mode so that they can transition smoothly into learning the game, even if it is more accessible than Last Hope.

Maybe I will do it like following. There's no selectable difficulty from beginning but when beating one loop, from that point on, the difficulty will be selectable in the menu and saving on the VMU.

[Super Laydock]

why make another R-Type clone? Don't we have enough of those?

just becuz! No not enough.

I'd rather play R-type and gradius clones forever than hsving manics instead!




Some people really complain too much... take it for what it is en judge only when having played.

[Udderdude]

I rather like to tell you, that you'll need to add critism on an game in development in a different way then to a finished product.

I don't think so. You only wish you could get special treatment. "Oh, it's still not finished, don't be so hard on it!". Yeah right! If anything, you should expect harsher critisism before it's finished .. people are more willing to point out things if they feel they have a chance of getting it changed/fixed.

In the final you will be able to control some of the enemies movements with that pushing box thingies to get them making a row and then blasting of that row of enemies at the same time will increase score. Really simple, you just have to think it a little bit further when I already pointing out there's more then just the video shows.

Sounds pretty arbitrary, but I guess I'd have to play it to really see. Sounds sort of like shooting rows of guys in Pulstar actually, minus the giant silly looking boxes. One thing is for sure .. don't make them move so linear.

There's no randomness in DUX but still the enemies have to be slightly improved. I mean the game is just not finished so it's open for critism but not of the kind you do.

I did not mean randomness by generating random numbers for the enemy locations, I meant that they are seemingly thrown around with no order. Not the kind of crisisism I do? Haha.

Actually, it's stange that you're saying all that about randomness since it perfectly applies to XOP/Black. The bullet puttern are almost randomly thrown on the screen by all of the enemies, and completly uninspired. I don't like the whole enemy splashing at all but that's my taste.

Where are you even getting this from? Let me guess, you never put the game on Very Hard and saw 100% of the bullets? They aren't at all 'random' there. Even on the lower skill levels .. there's just not a whole ton of them flying around. Very Hard has all the shots, and it just scales down dynamically from there. It's better than not having any difficulty modes at all, which would put off anyone who isn't a shmup maniac from playing it.

Also what is "enemy splashing"? I don't remember adding a swimming pool to XOP Black. Especially not one for the enemies to swim in.

So grab your one nose first, would we say in Germany.

I wish I could dig up that post by you where you claim since the Last Hope enemies all fire in one direction (directly at the player), you should be able to predict every shot. And that's not "completly uninspired" shots? lol. If I made every enemy in XOP Black fire like that, it'd be a joke.

How do psuedo-scanlines make the game less playable?

It lowers visibility. Why adding a line with zero information into the games sreens without any benifit? There's a reason why mostly 16-bit games have to do that. XOP don't.

It actually makes the image higher resolution, and adds visibility. If you understood how the 2x mode scales the image, you'd see it adds interpolated pixels, etc. Personally I think it looks better and much sharper.

Embarrasing? What the hell are you talking about? Yes, I'm completely embarrased that I added a fake scanline effect to my game.

Yes, it's effecting the game in a negative way.

Anyway, if you set the resolution to 400x300, the scanlines go away. Imagine that.

Without scanlines the games doesn't look better though.

You just contradicted yourself in the same post! How can it effect the game in a negative way, and at the same time it doesn't look better without it?! Or do you just mean it only looks good with "natural" scanlines? Jeez.

I don't have to prove myself nor my game has.

Yes, you've got the critical acclaim of Last Hope backing you up.

You doesn't seem to know much about R-Type gameplay anyhow.

So after claiming, "It's not really an R-Type clone!", you say that you need to understand R-Type gameplay to really know what's going on? What? And isn't this just an extension of the, "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND, MAN!" line we've been hearing from you since people started ragging on Last Hope?

Anyway, R-Type's main draw was it's amazing pacing, atmosphere and varied, interesting levels. The point is not to make it as tactical as humanly possible while still being a real-time game .. or just to take the weapon system and throw a bunch of popcorn/giant boxes at the player.

[RHE]

I don't think so. You only wish you could get special treatment. "Oh, it's still not finished, don't be so hard on it!". Yeah right! If anything, you should expect harsher critisism before it's finished .. people are more willing to point out things if they feel they have a chance of getting it changed/fixed.

All of your critism and all of the critism in this thread are really favourable. Not only one of the statements here are hard/harsh, not even yours. All your critism is just nitpicking and most of the stuff is already improved, but of course not updated on the video.

The video is meant to give a small impression of the game and not a piece of meat to getting ruptured. So you just doesn't seem to get it. You have to add ciritsm in a poistive way about a game in development as anything is useless. With a finished product things would look different.

Sounds pretty arbitrary, but I guess I'd have to play it to really see.

That's a much better attitude.

Sounds sort of like shooting rows of guys in Pulstar actually, minus the giant silly looking boxes. One thing is for sure .. don't make them move so linear.

I don't know what you mean.

How does a floating box has to move, when shooting in from the left side?

For me it has to move just in the direction they get pushed. Those boxes are no main gameplay element anyhow, so nothing to put too much time into.

I did not mean randomness by generating random numbers for the enemy locations, I meant that they are seemingly thrown around with no order. Not the kind of crisisism I do? Haha.

Why don't you just say what you mean? Tell me exactly why do you think to about the enemie movements?

I can tell when a game makes no effort about enemy movements. You just doesn't seem to understand the order as you didn't play the game. Telling this just from the video anway is not a good idea, but you just keep trying. Scoring is a quite important part with DUX. Not a much as important with most danmaku games but still more important then in any other R-Type like game. So the enemy movements are in order to make it easier to score etc.

XOP instead is just full of popcorn enemies. Even the bigger once are just bigger sized popcorn. I don't think this is any bad.

Where are you even getting this from? Let me guess, you never put the game on Very Hard and saw 100% of the bullets? They aren't at all 'random' there. Even on the lower skill levels .. there's just not a whole ton of them flying around. Very Hard has all the shots, and it just scales down dynamically from there. It's better than not having any difficulty modes at all, which would put off anyone who isn't a shmup manic from playing it.

Also what is "enemy splashing"? I don't remember adding a swimming pool to XOP Black. Especially not one for the enemies to swim in. Razz

XOP shows it.

And do you mean the game has even more bullets on very hard? Why is that not deault, when it is so much better? I'm not a fan of curtian bullet so for me that's not an improvement.

I'm not a native speaker also. I mean, that XOP looks some kind of splatter/gore game. Like you slashing a lot of aliens with much gore. The enemies look like they are splashing alien blood when dying and this goes alle game over and over again and there's no end in sight. That's nothing bad but not my taste.

I wish I could dig up that post by you where you claim since the Last Hope enemies all fire in one direction (directly at the player), you should be able to predict every shot. And that's not "completly uninspired" shots? lol. If I made every enemy in XOP Black fire like that, it'd be a joke.

Aimed bullets are what makes this genre great. And I prefer them over manic bullets patterns all the time. Aimed bullets makes you move while bullet putterns will make you dodge-tapping which is not exactly the same. Less is more.

It actually makes the image higher resolution, and adds visibility. If you understood how the 2x mode scales the image, you'd see it adds interpolated pixels, etc. Personally I think it looks better and much sharper.

That's technicly impossible.

You just contradicted yourself in the same post! How can it effect the game in a negative way, and at the same time it doesn't look better without it?! Or do you just mean it only looks good with "natural" scanlines? Jeez.

No I didn't. Adding pseudo-scanlines will lower visibilty and without them XOP doesn't even look better in terms of style. I was a bit unspecific trough, so that misunderstanding is my bad.

Yes, you've got the critical acclaim of Last Hope backing you up. Razz

I've got facts.

So after claiming, "It's not really an R-Type clone!", you say that you need to understand R-Type gameplay to really know what's going on? What? And isn't this just an extension of the, "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND, MAN!" line we've been hearing from you since people started ragging on Last Hope?

R-Type is a sub-genre. All the games within that genre will have some kind of R-Type gameplay in a rough meaning.

I can also say that Dodonpachi has Batsugan gameplay. However, in detail those games play very different. It's just they have some important parallels and those games need different enemy movements then in R-Type games.

And yes, you just don't understand.

Anyway, R-Type's main draw was it's amazing pacing, atmosphere and varied, interesting levels. The point is not to make it as tactical as humanly possible while still being a real-time game .. or just to take the weapon system and throw a bunch of popcorn/giant boxes at the player.

Like i've said, you don't know much about it's gameplay. This has nothing to do with atmoshpere or anything, it's just about the pure game mechanics.

The point is not to make it as tactical as humanly possible while still being a real-time game .. or just to take the weapon system and throw a bunch of popcorn/giant boxes at the player.

That's the biggest misunderstand about Last Hope.

Everyone can play Last Hope in the tactical manner it's made. It's not really hard as most people think. Not easy either. Actually, it's getting more reasonable and do-able once you got the hang out of it. Most player just need more time to spend with it.

Personally I think independent devs should collaborate in a certain sense instead of fighting each other.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For RHE,

Will you be adding a CGI rendered FMV opening for your Dreamcast DUX shmup title?

Or something like that of the gorgeous presentation of the limited FMV clips interspersed with anime pics like that found in the attract screen of MVS/AES version of Blazing Star? (Very well done IMO.)

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Udderdude]

The video is meant to give a small impression of the game

I think the video should include a disclaimer or something, then ..

Sounds sort of like shooting rows of guys in Pulstar actually, minus the giant silly looking boxes. One thing is for sure .. don't make them move so linear.

I don't know what you mean.

Oops, I made a mistake. It was Blazing Star that had that scoring system. The scoring system is to charge up your shot and then kill multiple enemies in a row with it.

Linear means in a constant speed and direction.

You just doesn't seem to understand the order as you didn't play the game.

Ok, I will see it when I play it, I guess.

XOP instead is just full of popcorn enemies. Even the bigger once are just bigger sized popcorn. I don't think this is any bad.

The very definition of a popcorn enemy is one that is small, numerous and dies in one shot. "Big popcorn enemies" is a contradiction, really.

And do you mean the game has even more bullets on very hard? Why is that not deault, when it is so much better? I'm not a fan of curtian bullet so for me that's not an improvement.

If your average gamer starts the game on Very Hard, they will get frustrated and give up. I have seen this happen myself. As much as I like danmaku shmups, I realize they are incredibly difficult and most people will think they are impossible. Some might see this as catering to poorly skilled players, but that is really just an elitist stance. I can't sit there and tell everyone who plays it to avoid Very Hard, if it's the default mode. However, I can tell people who are looking for a challenge to try Very Hard.

Aimed bullets are what makes this genre great. And I prefer them over manic bullets patterns all the time. Aimed bullets makes you move while bullet putterns will make you dodge-tapping which is not exactly the same. Less is more.

Actually, it is much more effective to mix aimed bullets with unaimed bullets. Which is what I did in most parts of XOP/Black.

That's technicly impossible.

I think if the programmer added it, it's not really a trick, like scaling in emulation is (aka the arcade game programmers had nothing to do with it). On a LCD monitor, it looks much sharper in the 800x600 mode than it does in the 400x300 mode. I don't own any CRT monitors anymore, but I figure it would look better in the 400x300 mode, if that CRT monitor has natural scanlines.

Everyone can play Last Hope in the tactical manner it's made. It's not really hard as most people think. Not easy either. Actually, it's getting more reasonable and do-able once you got the hang out of it. Most player just need more time to spend with it.

The biggest problem is that it starts off insanely difficult right from the start. Even the first wave of enemies requires near perfect play to get through. If even one enemy gets by, they shoot you in the ass and you die. And that's the first thing the player encounters! That's just a slap in the face. There is no incentive to spend more time with it, if there's no way to learn how to play other than frustration. I know I had no incentive to play any more after that.

You got the hang of it because you designed it as you were learning it, so you allready had a good grasp on it. Other players need time to learn what's going on, and you did not provide that learning period. You shouldn't expect players to put up with dying over and over on the first level, just to learn what's going on with the game. If you play most arcade shmups, you'll find they don't get really difficult and involved until level 3 or so. Throwing the player into the deep end of the pool immediatly is just poor design, plain and simple.

Anyway, you've said you are going to make DUX have different skill levels/modes, so let's hope you've learned your lesson and only the hardest skill is anywhere near as difficult as Last Hope's Arcade mode.

Personally I think independent devs should collaborate in a certain sense instead of fighting each other.

I think that our style of gameplay we enjoy is very different. For instance, if I got my hands on Last Hope's gameplay it would end up playing like Progear + R-Type. If there was anything technical it would be in the scoring system. I have a feeling if you remade XOP, it would play like a vertical R-Type in some way.

[pixelcorps]

wow, it looks and sounds apalling.

[RHE]

Will you be adding a CGI rendered FMV opening for your Dreamcast DUX shmup title?

Maybe is all I can say about this yet.

I think the video should include a disclaimer or something, then ..

For people like you it should.

Linear means in a constant speed and direction.

Those boxes does accelerate, so in your sense there're not moving linear.

The very definition of a popcorn enemy is one that is small, numerous and dies in one shot. "Big popcorn enemies" is a contradiction, really.

No it's not contradictive. Most popcorn enemy are small by nature because it makes sense. A big enemy however can feel like popcorn enemy when its like with XOP.

If your average gamer starts the game on Very Hard, they will get frustrated and give up. I have seen this happen myself. As much as I like danmaku shmups, I realize they are incredibly difficult and most people will think they are impossible. Some might see this as catering to poorly skilled players, but that is really just an elitist stance. I can't sit there and tell everyone who plays it to avoid Very Hard, if it's the default mode. However, I can tell people who are looking for a challenge to try Very Hard.

I understand what you mean and I don't completly disagree with that. But the default setting should always be the way a game is meant to be played. Aynthing else is not good.

Actually, it is much more effective to mix aimed bullets with unaimed bullets. Which is what I did in most parts of XOP/Black.

Not yet in R-Type games. DUX is going to change that.

I think if the programmer added it, it's not really a trick, like scaling in emulation is (aka the arcade game programmers had nothing to do with it). On a LCD monitor, it looks much sharper in the 800x600 mode than it does in the 400x300 mode. I don't own any CRT monitors anymore, but I figure it would look better in the 400x300 mode, if that CRT monitor has natural scanlines.

That's not much better then blurring it up.

The biggest problem is that it starts off insanely difficult right from the start.

That's not a problem. Actually, that's a very good thing. I mean why letting the player in belive you can beat the first stage on 1life but then in the 2nd or 3rd stage you will get destroyed by the games difficulty. Last Hope is meant to be hard so it shows that from beginning.

I think its much more frustating when easily playing a game but then in the 4th stage you the game suddenly gets 3 times harder. That's really frustating. Only a few games have some kind of balance to keep this in weight.

Even the first wave of enemies requires near perfect play to get through. If even one enemy gets by, they shoot you in the ass and you die. And that's the first thing the player encounters! That's just a slap in the face.

The whole game is a slap in the face.

There is no incentive to spend more time with it, if there's no way to learn how to play other than frustration. I know I had no incentive to play any more after that.

That's depending on your attitude. Last Hope is not a game for people who give up early.

You got the hang of it because you designed it as you were learning it, so you allready had a good grasp on it. Other players need time to learn what's going on, and you did not provide that learning period. You shouldn't expect players to put up with dying over and over on the first level, just to learn what's going on with the game. If you play most arcade shmups, you'll find they don't get really difficult and involved until level 3 or so.

Making a challgening game a only challenging about half of the game is not good. It's lieke a puzzle game with 100 levels but only the last 50 levels require puzzling skill.

I think that our style of gameplay we enjoy is very different.

I rather think that Last Hope is an unique gaming experince which has not very much to do with my personal preference per se. I prefer hard shooter, yes, but they don't have to hard be like Last Hope.

I have a feeling if you remade XOP, it would play like a vertical R-Type in some way.

It would play kinda like Super Aleste.

so let's hope you've learned your lesson

You don't understand what Last Hope is about.

Throwing the player into the deep end of the pool immediatly is just poor design, plain and simple.

That's the only way you can learn to play a game like Last Hope.

[JoshF]

Game needs lots of item bonuses or something.

[sven666]

You don't understand what Last Hope is about.

honestly.. ive never played last hope and i have no interest in DUX but seriously why this attitude?, as a developer you guys are getting tons of experience and playtesting for free here, id think this would be an amazing opportunity for you to take some of this to heart and actually improve your game rather than lashing back with snappy comebacks... the kind off arrogance youre displaying right now is really not fitting nor clever for an underground developer fighting for commercial success, especially not given the reception your previous game had.

[Super Laydock]

You don't understand what Last Hope is about.

honestly.. ive never played last hope and i have no interest in DUX but seriously why this attitude?

What attitude? It's clear that Udderdude didn't understand Last Hope in the way it was intended. He has obviously a different taste from RHE.

as a developer you guys are getting tons of experience and playtesting for free here

what playtesting? I do agre that some trusted people (plasmo!?!) should be asked for some playtesting though. When playing one's own game one overlooks it's faults more easily than when being more neutral.

People complaining SHOULD play the game before writing it off though.

the kind off arrogance youre displaying right now is really not fitting nor clever for an underground developer fighting for commercial success, especially not given the reception your previous game had.

Some arrogance is needed when dealing with cheap shots.

For the record, Last Hope may have been slaughtered here, but on a lot of other sites and media it was received quite well. (I love it too!)

If we all had "Plasmo-like"abilities we could all kill it. Unfortunately most (including me) suck too much to handle.

[RHE]

I do agre that some trusted people (plasmo!?!) should be asked for some playtesting though.

Plasmo may will join the external playtesting team when he has the time to do that.

Game needs lots of item bonuses or something.

In which kind? Can you be more specific?

honestly.. ive never played last hope and i have no interest in DUX but seriously why this attitude?, as a developer you guys are getting tons of experience and playtesting for free here, id think this would be an amazing opportunity for you to take some of this to heart and actually improve your game rather than lashing back with snappy comebacks... the kind off arrogance youre displaying right now is really not fitting nor clever for an underground developer fighting for commercial success, especially not given the reception your previous game had.

All of your're saying is right but doesn't apply to Last Hope. It just don't need external playtesting, an difficuly balance etc. by nature. Last Hope is an arrogant game. So, being arrogant is the perfect attitude to encounter a game like Last Hope. DUX instead needs suggested thing, so any construcutive ciritism is very welcome. Some of the suggestion in this thread are already taken and improving the game to make it an pleasent gaming experience.

It also seems like you didn't follow the whole thread. I would prefer you do that before we talk about this any furhter.

[sven666]

People complaining SHOULD play the game before writing it off though.

Some arrogance is needed when dealing with cheap shots.

i agree on both points, however i cant see the developer taking in anything people have said about last hope at all?

just looking thru this thread it is clear alot of people have some valid complaints about that game which they have pointed out to seemingly deaf ears, it seems alot of the same faults will also be appearing in DUX.

im all for releasing underground games and all that but before they can come up with a truly quality product its just in vain, if you compare last hope to some of the entries in the annual shmups-homebrew tournament youll see a huge difference in quality.. sadly its not in NG-devs favour

[RHE]

it seems alot of the same faults will also be appearing in DUX.

Namely?

im all for releasing underground games and all that but before they can come up with a truly quality product its just in vain, if you compare last hope to some of the entries in the annual shmups-homebrew tournament youll see a huge difference in quality.. sadly its not in NG-devs favour Sad

How can you tell this without having played Last Hope once? Or do your only watch videos of games on youtoube instead of playing them?

[Super Laydock]

however i cant see the developer taking in anything people have said about last hope at all?

erm, one of the harshest criticism on LH originally was the ammount of debris covering bullets being fired, resulting in this being fixed in DC version a bit an more on NGCD. In DUX no debris at all...point taken well imo.

Last Hope was deemed impossible (DC version improved as Plasmo shows). DUX seems very well doable even for a poor player like me.

Fortunately the music is pretty much as awesome in DUX as it was in Last Hope, so good things remain.

I think the team has learned to deal with constructive criticism already.

While on topic, I think this was suggested already (maybe even implemented now), the ship tilting up-down would be a desirable feature.

Still, people who don´t like it: steer clear. There´ll be others enjoying it for sure.

[JoshF]

In which kind? Can you be more specific?

You said you were trying to modernize R-Type well the best way to do that is to have a scoring system that is more than "shoot things." An item bonus system would be the best option because it wouldn't interfere with the existing design (unlike something like a combo system or "double points for killing with the Force" which would require the whole game be designed with that in mind.) There's are tons of games to look to for inspiration like Darius Gaiden, Blazing Star, Raiden DX, Gunbird 2, etc..

[RHE]

maybe even implemented now

Yes. I hope it's strong enough and will be also visibly enough in the stage 2 video.

Quote:
In which kind? Can you be more specific?

You said you were trying to modernize R-Type well the best way to do that is to have a scoring system that is more than "shoot things." An item bonus system would be the best option because it wouldn't interfere with the existing design (unlike something like a combo system or "double points for killing with the Force" which would require the whole game be designed with that in mind.) There's are tons of games to look to for inspiration like Darius Gaiden, Blazing Star, Raiden DX, Gunbird 2, etc..

I will consider this for sure. I don't quite get Blazing Stars bonus item systems though. So don't expect anything like that nor even something like medal hells.

[pixelcorps]

this level of arrogance from the developer of such an average game is amazing.

[RHE]

this level of arrogance from the developer of such an average game is amazing

.

I'm not as arrogant to the players as players are arrogant to Last Hope. You're an player. You should know how to make fun out of a game instead of giving up it up after 10 mins of playtime. Some player just need a reason for quit playing this game, so there'y try stating it as bad per se. It's just easier to play a game with 1 pixel hitzone instead of picking up the controller again and trying harder at Last Hope.

I don't think that you even have seen half of the game but still try judging about it. That's just not fair.

Why did you say avarage anyway? Normally you should say it's complete garbage to make yourself looking more cool.

[320x240]

this level of arrogance from the developer of such an average game is amazing.

He is just answering in tone, which says a lot about the quality of the 'feedback' he gets around here. Hopefully he is wise enough to listen to those who likes this style of game rather than the rest. Those people seem happy with what is shown so far.

[it290]

Code: Select all

It's just easier to play a game with 1 pixel hitzone instead of picking up the controller again and trying harder at Last Hope. 

Some of those games are just as harder or harder than Last Hope; they're just not as frustrating. 'Try harder' is fine, but if it's not _fun_ to try harder, there's little incentive to come back to the game.

[Plasmo]

Worst off-topic ever regarding 320x240's sig:
"Wittgenstein is the popcorn enemy of philosophy"
I don't get it, what do you mean?

[Turrican]

Worst off-topic ever regarding 320x240's sig:
"Wittgenstein is the popcorn enemy of philosophy"
I don't get it, what do you mean?

Nietzsche is mid-stage boss

Marx is Hibachi

[Plasmo]

Sartre must be the second TLB then.

[Super Laydock]

Some of those games are just as harder or harder than Last Hope; they're just not as frustrating. 'Try harder' is fine, but if it's not _fun_ to try harder, there's little incentive to come back to the game.

Last Hope may be HARD, but it still is doable.


"doable" must be fine for almost all lovers of the genre. Impossible is usually subjective.