IGN reviewer can't play or pronounce Ikaruga

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:46 pm

Skykid wrote:
Ceph wrote:
jp wrote: I really don't like Ikaruga.
Best post in this thread.
Agreed. Perhaps the most overrated shmup in history.

As expected.
Whatever.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:11 pm

Acid King wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Ceph wrote: Best post in this thread.
Agreed. Perhaps the most overrated shmup in history.
Radiant Silvergun would like a word with you.

Most overrated developer in shmup history.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:20 pm

Their shmups aren't bad, but are overrated indeed. Both RSG and Ikaruga are pretty good, but waaaaay overrated (I dislike RSG, but I can see why people like it so much. I do enjoy Ikaruga, though I suck at chaining). Gradius V is AWESOME though, and actually I find it to be underrated.... maybe the lack of a score system made possible for them to design the levels with more freedom, and they made a masterpiece. Silpheed: The Lost Planet is garbage. People say its more due to gamearts controlling the development of the game, but it seems they didn't had any idea of what made the original Silpheed so enjoable.

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:31 pm

Overrated? Sure. Still appreciated by me? Yes.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:08 pm

cool to say they're overrated but maybe you could also point out why because the discussion isn't being very interesting here.

orange · Post by **orange** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:44 pm

puzzle game

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:48 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:cool to say they're overrated but maybe you could also point out why because the discussion isn't being very interesting here.

I think the reason Silvergun is overrated is because of its "legendary" status in the media and among non shooting game fans. I saw the game pop up on a few top 5 games-by-console lists on another forum by people who probably have never played a shooting game for score. When I tried discussing why I thought there were better shooters on the saturn, I couldn't engage them about the score system. Ikaruga's problem is it's relation to Silvergun by the media.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:53 pm

Yeah, that's it basically. Those games aren't bad, but the media makes them look like they are the most perfect shooters to ever grace our planet, and that's not the case.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:12 pm

Absolutely right. Let's send a signal by keeping Ikaruga off our top 25 list.

nem · Post by **nem** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:44 pm

To their (dis?)credit, both games are very flash. They have a certain grandness to them that I can't say any other STG title has. I can see how RSG impresses a lot more on first impression than, say, Layer Section.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:50 pm

I could never get into Ikaruga, felt a bit like vertical R-Type to me, and I don't care much for horizontal R-Type.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:55 pm

the thing for me when talking about treasure, and silvergun/ikaruga/gradius v is that they were masterminded by a guy (hiroshi iuchi) who had, until then, worked as a pixel artist, drawing background graphics with konami and treasure. he is the ultimate shooter fan, an obsolute obsessive. and he was so determined to make his own shooter that he quit treasure in the hope of doing it. and when no company he approached had any interest in releasing a 2D game (especially a 2D arcade game - this was 1997 after all), treasure brought him back and said if it means that much, he can direct and make his own shooter. and thus radiant silvergun was born. considering this was his first attempt at the genre, i think he did an amazing job. perhaps even over-ambitious. i can't think of any other shmup developer who have released a game as good as this on their first attempt. and obviously ikaruga was only his second entry into the genre. i think he's done a great job all things considered. his passion for shooters is amazing, and i think you can feel that in his games. he drew most of the backgrounds in silvergun one pixel at a time.

$0.02

ktownhero · Post by **ktownhero** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:11 pm

There's nothing overrated about Ikaruga, it's a masterpiece.

ktownhero · Post by **ktownhero** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:13 pm

FIL wrote:I could never get into Ikaruga, felt a bit like vertical R-Type to me, and I don't care much for horizontal R-Type.

All I can think to say in response to this is... "nigga wha!?"

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:32 pm

I love Ikaruga, it's an amazing game (Silvergun, too). That said, I understand some's dislike of it. The polarity makes it pretty different, it has more puzzle elements, and it's heavy on memorization. It's really not like many (any?) other shmups out there, and that turns some people off. To each their own, but I still think that even if you dislike Ikaruga, you should recognize it as a well-designed game in its own right. It has really well-designed level layouts and bosses which take full advantage of the polarity, chaining, and bullet absorption. The memorization, which is absolutely required for scoring, isn't actually necessary for survival, although it helps like in any shmup. This is the difference between Ikaruga and R-Type, where you have to memorize just to survive at all. I can't personally stand R-Type games.

As I end this rant, I just want to say that I hate it when others claim Ikaruga is not a shmup. You control a spaceship that flies in one direction on a 2D plane over a scrolling background, shooting at enemy ships and bosses while dodging bullets. If that's not a shmup, what the hell is?

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:33 pm

Its well designed for the type of game that it is, its just not my thing.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:40 pm

I love Ikaruga, it's an amazing game (Silvergun, too). That said, I understand some's dislike of it. The polarity makes it pretty different, it has more puzzle elements, and it's heavy on memorization. It's really not like many (any?) other shmups out there, and that turns some people off. To each their own, but I still think that even if you dislike Ikaruga, you should recognize it as a well-designed game in its own right. It has really well-designed level layouts and bosses which take full advantage of the polarity, chaining, and bullet absorption. The memorization, which is absolutely required for scoring, isn't actually necessary for survival, although it helps like in any shmup. This is the difference between Ikaruga and R-Type, where you have to memorize just to survive at all. I can't personally stand R-Type games.

That's why I think Gradius V is their best game. It's very well-designed while being very straight-forward, anyone can pick it up and play it easily. There's no chaining, no polarity, no secret dogs or anything.

I dislike RSG, but I see how well designed it is, I just can't enjoy its obligatory chaining system. Gradius V is just as well designed, but with the advantage of being very acessible from the start.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:59 pm

Radiant Silvergun's problem is that it is painfully hard to get into. Like, if you're just starting, its going to murder you. But once you get it, its amazing. Everything about is just top notch. Once you start playing RS for score and understand the levels, then it really does become the best shmup ever made.

But I don't think very many people have put the time into RS to fully appreciate it. And thats its main flaw: You HAVE to put in time to be able to play it. You HAVE to score well to get anywhere with it. Otherwise the bosses take forever and will murder you.

Ikaruga on the other hand, is rather lack luster and gimmicky from the offset. And when you start trying to play for score is just annoying.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:55 pm

My favorite part of this thread was people acting like videogame reviews are somehow important and/or serve any purpose.

My second favorite part was finding out how many guys sit around and write videogames reviews in their "spare" time.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:17 am

PaCrappa wrote:My favorite part of this thread was people acting like videogame reviews are somehow important and/or serve any purpose.

My second favorite part was finding out how many guys sit around and write videogames reviews in their "spare" time.

You know, aspirant game designers do that in their free time to learn to make constructive opinions about video games.

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:07 am

Now that Ikaruga is released I hope Treasure concentrates fully on their unknown 360 shooter. Will it top Silvergun and Ikuraga? Only time will tell.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:15 am

sideshow wrote:Will it top Silvergun and Ikuraga?

Yes.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:19 am

Ikuraga and RSG are like the joint Citizen Kanes of the shoot em up genre.

Somewhere along the line they got the 'best shmups eva!' tag which eventually just became like an unquestionable industry standard.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:25 am

well, even just on a technical level they were great accomplishments looking at what they achieved on those systems. and in the same way, movies like citizen kane were a benchmark in cinematography for their time (even if you don't like the movie itself)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:31 am

And Gradius V still looks good.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:43 am

yep

but i think it's the weakest of the three in terms of artistic content

another thing i really like is while both games are very innovative (for want of a better word), for every new idea that they put into those games, there were other long-standing traditions that they chose not to implement. i think it takes a lot of courage to wilfully break away from the formula of shot, bomb, power-up icons, etc, so dramatically. their games have a really strong identity in that respect

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:49 am

Iky was what brought me back into STGs after not playing for about 10 years.

I found it by accident. I loved it for it's own merits, having not read any reviews on it but grabbing it by chance in the used section of a game store. And though since then I've played all sorts of shmups, it's the one I come back to more than any other, be it Cave, Konami or whatever. I do really love the game and find it to be a wondrous experience, from the music, artwork and storyline to the gameplay.

I don't expect or even desire everyone to love the game.

My two cents (that you didn't want.)

(This is not a review.)

(I should stop reading this thread because I'm not helping it stay on topic.)

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:51 am

kozo wrote:(This is not a review. :) )

It'd be cool if more people knew that reviews are only personal impressions.

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:53 am

I suppose so. But this was just a quick, honest response from a guy who plays games. I'm not paid to do so, nor do I recommend games to people very often (because they never listen anyway.)

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:56 am

You're not the problem - people like Icy are. :)