2008 USA Presidential Primaries thread

[JoshF]

Isn't Carter the one who started funding the mujahadeen in Afghanistan? He probably still has the cleanest hands of any modern president.

[Fighter17]

Oh yeah, the hostage crisis. True, what a low point of U.S. diplomacy. Oh wait, let's see what does surround Carter's presidency - before him Watergate scandal in domestic and suppressing Chile's democracy in the foreign. And what comes after Carter, oh right, the Contra affair - funding pro-Somoza "Freedom Fighters".

I can only add that from a foreign pov, compared to these bloodstained politics, the hostage incident has around the same weight as getting a bj. But I guess if you were able to buy an home under Reagan, then this obvious merit does erase all sorts of human rights violations. Who cares how many dictators you support if you are indeed able to lower inflation...[/quote]

The hostage incident is the same weight as getting a BJ, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Look I know Reagan didn't make the best choices (I'm NPA, never will be a 100% Republican), but tell me what human "violations" did he do?

Isn't Carter the one who started funding the mujahadeen in Afghanistan? He probably still has the cleanest hands of any modern president.

With the shittiest domestic policies of the 20th century.

[it290]

I'd propose for someone to vote N.6, as well. Then, after voting, he goes out and take the first innocent and says "6, 6, vo-ote N.6!".

I am not a number -- I am a free man!

[Randorama]

I'd propose for someone to vote N.6, as well. Then, after voting, he goes out and take the first innocent and says "6, 6, vo-ote N.6!".

I am not a number -- I am a free man!

mwahahahahahah! *Sends CIA rover*

[Turrican]

Isn't Carter the one who started funding the mujahadeen in Afghanistan? He probably still has the cleanest hands of any modern president.

Yeah, that's true. I guess no one's perfect. At least Afghanistan had borders with the USSR, so the whole "let's fight communism" thing made a little more sense. Unlike in Latin America.

[GaijinPunch]

Well you live in Japan for years now so ever thinking about giving up your citizenship?

You say that as if getting Japanese citizenship is remotely possible (not to mention desired) for someone in my situation.

Are you planning to ever return to the US?

I lived in the US for 2005 and 2006.

[Turrican]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7229587.stm

@F17:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychologi ... la_Warfare

[JoshF]

Weren't they also instructed to turn on lights and water faucets in public facilities?

[Turrican]

So, Obama is getting 13 states while Hillary only 8 ones, but the ones that count most, like California, NY, New Jersey...

...that means no clear winner in the blue camp yet, right?

[Neon]

So, Obama is getting 13 states while Hillary only 8 ones, but the ones that count most, like California, NY, New Jersey...

...that means no clear winner in the blue camp yet, right?

Currect.

I like Clinton more, but I'm voting for Obama since the numbers and logic say he has a better shot against McCain in the general.

[GaijinPunch]

I don't see how anyone that says we need to stay in Iraq and fuck it up even more can become President.

[Neon]

I don't see how anyone that says we need to stay in Iraq and fuck it up even more can become President.

Personally, I'm not willing to roll the dice.

A lot of stuff is riding on this election (Iraq, universal healthcare, maybe even Roe). It's important to vote for the candidate who appeals to most people, not most democrats.

[jp]

I don't see how anyone that says we need to stay in Iraq and fuck it up even more can become President.

We're past the point where anyone has any competent idea of how we should deal with Iraq.

Now we just have to figure out which shitty candidate is going to be the least shitty.

Regardless, I'm starting to think when I finish up my Math and Physics degrees this coming year I may need to start looking into other countries and just finish up Optical Engineering abroad. Hillary is going to turn us into some Kurt Vonnegut shit, Obama is going to annihilate the middle class, and McCain is going to watch us go bankrupt over this stupid war against AN IDEA!

I'm so glad the media picks our candidates for us.

[Fighter17]

I like Clinton more, but I'm voting for Obama since the numbers and logic say he has a better shot against McCain in the general.

A guy with only two years in the Senate has a better shot at McCain (who's in his forth term)!!!????

Both Democrats and Republicans knows if Obama becomes the nominee so much shit is going to hit Obama in a flash (and both parties know he doesn't stand a chance against McCain). Plus like Bill said himself he's the Black choice (he's getting tons of African American votes, but not enough of the white votes. Most of the white votes are going to Hilliary).

Democrats best choice against McCain is Hilliary. For Democrats she's so much better than Obama. She's smart but I wouldn't vote for her because I don't agree on her policies at all.

A lot of stuff is riding on this election (Iraq, universal healthcare, maybe even Roe). It's important to vote for the candidate who appeals to most people, not most democrats.

They will be no Universal Healthcare in this country ever. The country must become really liberal if something like this ever happens. The only type of Universal Healthcare Americans will accept are for children. Good number of Republicans were displease when the SCHIP was vetoed. We're spending more in Iraq and we can't even afford Health Care to children?

Roe will be a state issue always. I can never see a full country ban on Abortion. Same-Sex marriage will be the same deal (despite I would support a Amendment making marriages a Man/Women only).




jp: Did you vote yesterday?

[GaijinPunch]

A guy with only two years in the Senate has a better shot at McCain (who's in his forth term)!!!????

In a nutshell yes. Please wake up and look at statistics. Obama is amazingly popular despite his young age. He's even swung it in his favor w/ his whole "change" thing.

Both Democrats and Republicans knows if Obama becomes the nominee so much shit is going to hit Obama in a flash (and both parties know he doesn't stand a chance against McCain).

No they don't.

For Democrats she's so much better than Obama.

Again, please look at some statistics. Obama will pull way more of the swing vote from McCain than Hillary. Hillary only pulls the conservative of conservative from McCain, and that's only b/c they hate him.

She's smart but I wouldn't vote for her because I don't agree on her policies at all.

Are you old enough to vote?

They will be no Universal Healthcare in this country ever. The country must become really liberal if something like this ever happens.

You said Obama would get nowhere b/c of his name... he's neck and fucking neck w/ the ex-first lady.

I can never see a full country ban on Abortion. Same-Sex marriage will be the same deal (despite I would support a Amendment making marriages a Man/Women only).

Already heading that way. Supreme Court already overuled sodomy laws, so that's one step of the "whole country support same sex marriage". May not be next term, but it's coming. You do realize that some 60-70 years ago people were saying the same thing about segregation, right?

[jp]

jp: Did you vote yesterday?

I did. Despite it being a futile effort. This country is too fucking stupid to put anyone that could change anything for the better in office. But then again, its stupid enough to think Bill Clinton was a good president, so why I gave enough of a fuck to vote is beyond me.

The South Park episode pertaining to the school mascot is so accurate it almost hurts. And every year I'm seeing everything get that much closer to Mike Judge's film "Idiocracy". Now I'm just like, why does it matter? This is country is going to be so shitty in 5-10 years its depressing.

[Neon]

despite I would support a Amendment making marriages a Man/Women only

After separation of church and state is eroded entirely, I look forward to your synagogue being forced to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies

[GaijinPunch]

But then again, its stupid enough to think Bill Clinton was a good president, .

What did he do that was so bad?

[jp]

But then again, its stupid enough to think Bill Clinton was a good president, .

What did he do that was so bad?

Gutted our military via closing down a ton of bases on US soil as well as almost closing the main NSA base in Baltimore (though thankfully that didn't happen), furthered NAFTA enough so that a lot of our jobs went overseas, furthered this "We must police the world!" bullshit by bombing Iraq and jumping into Yugoslavia (though, to his credit, we were just following NATO). Also, a lot of the problems our economy is having today is a result of policies he put in place, since it takes several years for the effects of one president to really show up in the country. Also, Bill Clinton's economic stimulus package as well as his retroactive tax increases screwed over small, upstart businesses, which are very much the heart of our economy.

And I already know what you and any other Clinton supporters will say. "But the economy in the 90s!" Yeah, if you want to thank a Bill for that, thank Mr. Gates for mainstreaming computers with Windows 95 to the point where virtually any household by the end of the 90s had a PC. Lets also not forget the Dot com Boom during the 90s (and the subsequent crash, which really hurt our economy). The only real reason our economy was so healthy during that time was because of technology taking off, and was DESPITE Bill Clinton.

Edit: Also, you're not going to see this talked about much, and really, only if you know people who did a lot of government contract work at the time could you find anything about it, but after Clinton won the '96 election, he would take contracts away from groups in states that voted against him, and give them to states that voted for him.

[Fighter17]

In a nutshell yes. Please wake up and look at statistics. Obama is amazingly popular despite his young age. He's even swung it in his favor w/ his whole "change" thing.

And how many young people are actually going to vote in November? Tons of young people vote in Primaries but most don't show up in November.

Obama is getting a free ride right now. When November is coming closer people will start questioning his experience. He doesn't have a resume (two years as Senator, get the hell out of here), the hell he can do as President?

Popularly doesn't mean shit, experience is what Americans want.

No they don't.

Dude, trust me Democrats and Republicans are not stupid to know what happens if Obama gets it.

Again, please look at some statistics. Obama will pull way more of the swing vote from McCain than Hillary. Hillary only pulls the conservative of conservative from McCain, and that's only b/c they hate him.

LOL.

Many Independents and Crossover Democrats will go for McCain. It's all about experience. Young people tend not to show up in November (and Obama is popular with young voters).

Are you old enough to vote?

Yes. I'm a Independent (if you want to go far I'm a Independent Republican).

If you're not voting for a President this year then leave this thread.

You said Obama would get nowhere b/c of his name... he's neck and fucking neck w/ the ex-first lady.

I said before that the name won't become a big deal until later. God help him if he becomes the nominee.

Already heading that way. Supreme Court already overuled sodomy laws, so that's one step of the "whole country support same sex marriage". May not be next term, but it's coming. You do realize that some 60-70 years ago people were saying the same thing about segregation, right?

Ganji, this country is too pious to allow Same-Sex marriage in all the States. This year in Florida the Anti-Gay Marriage Amendment will be on the ballot. Since Florida is an heavy Republican state it's going to pass with no problems (and I'll vote for it).

After separation of church and state is eroded entirely, I look forward to your synagogue being forced to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies

They won't.

America will always be a pious nation and you know it.

[Neon]

Gutted our military via closing down a ton of bases on US soil as well as almost closing the main NSA base in Baltimore (though thankfully that didn't happen)

More like cleaned up after Ronald Reagan, who gutted social programs in favor of military spending. What was the threat? The Soviet Union, where ground crews were drinking the hydraulic fluids of the latest MiG fighters to get shitfaced. If the army can lose a few bases and still remain the world's most powerful (I know this is a fact but I'm not sure how it's calculated, as China's is like 30X the size of ours), I say go for it. Did you learn about the guns/butter production possibilities curve in econ 101? Serious question, I'm not trying to shit on you. Basically, less military spending means more money for other things.

furthered NAFTA enough so that a lot of our jobs went overseas

So the North American Free Trade Agreement sent jobs...overseas? Elaborate plz

furthered this "We must police the world!" bullshit by bombing Iraq and jumping into Yugoslavia (though, to his credit, we were just following NATO).

I was young when this happened and don't have a clear understanding, but from what I know he stopped a genocide. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, a lot of the problems our economy is having today is a result of policies he put in place, since it takes several years for the effects of one president to really show up in the country.

Thank Jimmy Carter for the 'success' of Reaganomics, then!

Also, Bill Clinton's economic stimulus package as well as his retroactive tax increases screwed over small, upstart businesses, which are very much the heart of our economy.

Again, no. If you're interested in looking out for the little guy, take a gander at some stats from before and after Reagan/Bush. The gigantic tax cuts for the rich somehow didn't trickle down as much as they said it would. Hmm.

And I already know what you and any other Clinton supporters will say. "But the economy in the 90s!" Yeah, if you want to thank a Bill for that, thank Mr. Gates for mainstreaming computers with Windows 95 to the point where virtually any household by the end of the 90s had a PC. Lets also not forget the Dot com Boom during the 90s (and the subsequent crash, which really hurt our economy). The only real reason our economy was so healthy during that time was because of technology taking off, and was DESPITE Bill Clinton.

Well, Al Gore invented the internet, so the administration gets some credit at least!

Again, based on past history I think you might take this as a personal attack, but it isn't, I think you've just been misinformed.

[jp]

No, I've already seen you say you liked Hillary, so that uneducated response is about what I would expect from you, and I'm really not going to get into it with you, because, well, everything I stated came from people that were working in the government/military at the time, my best friend who is in the NSA now, and a basic understanding of economics. I know you're going to stick by what you say and I'm going to know what I just said, so there's nothing else for me to say. I'm not going to sit here and start a 10 page argument with you, because its going to be a waste of time in the end. Socialist hippie.

[JoshF]

Both Democrats and Republicans knows if Obama becomes the nominee so much shit is going to hit Obama in a flash

Both you and I know that your buddies on the radio are already rooting through their closets for those Lewinski song parody tapes if Clinton wins.

jumping into Yugoslavia

This is what makes Bill the worst modern president (above Reagan of course.)

Give credit to Ronald McDonald for destroying the roots of democracy in Latin America but man it must take a little more brutality for a Redwood like Yugoslavia was (high standard living conditions comparable to America and a successful universal healthcare system.) Gotta get rid of that good example.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/yugoslavia.html

which are very much the heart of our economy

Really? It's not the Fortune 500?

America will always be a pious nation and you know it.

What does piety have to do with discrimination?

[CIT]

Ganji, this country is too pious to allow Same-Sex marriage in all the States. This year in Florida the Anti-Gay Marriage Amendment will be on the ballot. Since Florida is an heavy Republican state it's going to pass with no problems (and I'll vote for it).

Nah, Florida is a swing state.

And I'm also registered to vote in Florida, and will vote against the amendment, thereby cancelling your vote!

[djvinc]

Is there some repository somewhere containing the candidate's program and speaches ?

[it290]

Ganji, this country is too pious to allow Same-Sex marriage in all the States. This year in Florida the Anti-Gay Marriage Amendment will be on the ballot. Since Florida is an heavy Republican state it's going to pass with no problems (and I'll vote for it).

You know, in fifty years you'll be thought of in the same way that Jim Crow supporters are thought of today.

[GaijinPunch]

A bunch of shit about Clinton

A counter argument

I realize you're entitled to your own interpretation but I think Bill was a great President. If you're going to nit pick you can find fucked up shit they ALL did. Bill had 12 years of Republican lube to clean off of the public though, and he did a good job. Look at our international popularity when he left office. Look at it now. I know statistically only 10% of Americans here will have a Passport, thus making 90% somewhat oblivious to the outside world, but most of this horse shit going on is about hate.

A pretty lame statement about the former Yugoslavia

As someone that knows many people affected by the war, went there, and spent every Xmas and Thanksgiving during the time w/ refugees, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he actually had balls to do what Big Bush didn't. I love the double standards in this country. "Saddam was a bad man, let's invade". There are bad men every where... not all of them have oil though.

And how many young people are actually going to vote in November? Tons of young people vote in Primaries but most don't show up in November.

You are high.

Popularly doesn't mean shit, experience is what Americans want.

By that logic, you shouldn't be participating in this thread since everyone here has far, far more real life experience than you.

Many Independents and Crossover Democrats will go for McCain. It's all about experience. Young people tend not to show up in November (and Obama is popular with young voters).

Who the fuck told you this?

If you're not voting for a President this year then leave this thread.

Why do you keep bringing that up? Do you still not understand absentee voting?

I said before that the name won't become a big deal until later. God help him if he becomes the nominee.

I'm too lazy to find my bong picture.

Ganji,

Who?

this country is too pious to allow Same-Sex marriage in all the States. This year in Florida the Anti-Gay Marriage Amendment will be on the ballot. Since Florida is an heavy Republican state it's going to pass with no problems (and I'll vote for it).

Do you understand how the law works?

America will always be a pious nation and you know it.

I know w/ all your years of wisdom you will find this hard to believe, but times do change. I'll bet 20 years ago you'd never think gay people would be allowed to have children.

[The n00b]

No, I've already seen you say you liked Hillary, so that uneducated response is about what I would expect from you, and I'm really not going to get into it with you, because, well, everything I stated came from people that were working in the government/military at the time, my best friend who is in the NSA now, and a basic understanding of economics. I know you're going to stick by what you say and I'm going to know what I just said, so there's nothing else for me to say. I'm not going to sit here and start a 10 page argument with you, because its going to be a waste of time in the end. Socialist hippie.

The Chinese military doesn't even spend 25% of what the US spends on its military. The Chinese army also might have more manpower but manpower doesn't mean shit when it's eating up your flimsy logistics machine and you have zero support from an air force that considers it a success when 20% of its planes can actually get off the ground. This is hardly an insult though because the US spends so much on its military that it is rapidly bringing down US society.

Just consider this: For all the money we spent on the Iraq War, we could have had universal health for merely a fraction of the cost.

BTW I wouldn't fear Hillary if I were a Ron Paul cro-mag. If she won the presidency, she'd probably do very little to improve or destroy the country...exactly like Bill Clinton. Come to think of it, Bill Clinton didn't let the knuckle draggin mouth breathing conservatives have their way like Bush did. I mean come on: the Iraq War, the border wall, the gestapo(NSA), and it just goes on and on. It's like Rush Limbaugh had his way for 8 years.

[Twiddle]

The Chinese military doesn't even spend 25% of what the US spends on its military. The Chinese army also might have more manpower but manpower doesn't mean shit when it's eating up your flimsy logistics machine and you have zero support from an air force that considers it a success when 20% of its planes can actually get off the ground. This is hardly an insult though because the US spends so much on its military that it is rapidly bringing down US society.

Actually it's more like "let's just hand over billions to rich people and call it military spending"

[The n00b]

The Chinese military doesn't even spend 25% of what the US spends on its military. The Chinese army also might have more manpower but manpower doesn't mean shit when it's eating up your flimsy logistics machine and you have zero support from an air force that considers it a success when 20% of its planes can actually get off the ground. This is hardly an insult though because the US spends so much on its military that it is rapidly bringing down US society.

Actually it's more like "let's just hand over billions to rich people and call it military spending"

Actually it's more like "let's just hand over billions to rich people and get f22's, f35's, multi-million dollar tanks, expensive experimental projects that don't go anywhere, and lots of other high-tech junk for an enemy that has yet to exist on this planet"