RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[bobrocks95]

His cables are great - I have one of his PS1+PS2 sync on luma cables & the audio/video is flawless. I believe I’ve heard that his 15+31kHz Dreamcast cable has better compatibility than the RGC UK one (I’ve heard that theirs has some issues with some device, I forget if it was RT5X OSSC or something else) - not sure how different the circuit is, but it’s definitely different if that’s the case.

Knowing Dreamcast 15/31kHz cables, the RGC cable probably improperly combines the sync and is left with a janky csync signal in one or both of the modes that some devices don't like. I believe the retro-access cable uses a circuit designed by citrus3000psi/Dan that should also work properly.

Still don't know of a good source for an actual Dreamcast VGA cable though!

[EnragedWhale]

His cables are great - I have one of his PS1+PS2 sync on luma cables & the audio/video is flawless. I believe I’ve heard that his 15+31kHz Dreamcast cable has better compatibility than the RGC UK one (I’ve heard that theirs has some issues with some device, I forget if it was RT5X OSSC or something else) - not sure how different the circuit is, but it’s definitely different if that’s the case.

Knowing Dreamcast 15/31kHz cables, the RGC cable probably improperly combines the sync and is left with a janky csync signal in one or both of the modes that some devices don't like. I believe the retro-access cable uses a circuit designed by citrus3000psi/Dan that should also work properly.

Still don't know of a good source for an actual Dreamcast VGA cable though!

Whilst this is indeed true, the RGC will work with the RT5X as Mike very kindly added an option to invert the field order on interlaced signals.

[BuckoA51]

^^

Yes, you can only get perfect scanlines in the "1080p Under" mode but that will get you black borders.


In the settings that you have just posted, did you try adding the "Grille-Bright" mask setting to see how that looks? On my pentile-matrix 1080p plasma it gives really pleasing, perfectly spaced vertical (like a Tate'd CRT) scanlines, without requiring any cropping. You may have to default your scaling/cropping setting though. Although I would rather perfect horizontal scanlines, this is the next best thing and looks very authentic on my display.

Here's Grille-Bright on the same image, with your recommended gamma boost -3 colour boost +3 really does look great!

PIC-2022_03_22_16_15_46 by videogameperfection, on Flickr

I think this is just the beginning with the 5x and who knows what effects and upgrades Mike will cook up next firmware update.

Is there a free site anyone knows that can do the side by side image comparison? It'd be fun to upload these with a slider control so you can flick between the two images.

[Josh128]

^^

Yes, that looks awesome. Its my fav way to play 480p stuff in 1080p without needing to stretch or have black borders. Just like a big-ass tated HD Trinitron CRT!

[WobblingPixels]

Trying to source a cable for Dreamcast and all the reputable online shops are currently out of stock. I contacted an eBay seller in Poland about this RGB SCART cable to verify it wouldn't potentially damage my RetroTINK. He responded that he "is using clean sync directly from console and it is 75 Ohm." He then suggested this cable instead, which he also makes, in order to get 480p for a cleaner picture.

I own the cable and it works without issues with the R5x except 480i. You have to enable the invert option in the R5x settings to fix the output. Same goes for RGC cable. For more details and what settings to use with DC you can check out the "R5x DC cables & settings" video on my youtube channel if you like.

[bobrocks95]

Trying to source a cable for Dreamcast and all the reputable online shops are currently out of stock. I contacted an eBay seller in Poland about this RGB SCART cable to verify it wouldn't potentially damage my RetroTINK. He responded that he "is using clean sync directly from console and it is 75 Ohm." He then suggested this cable instead, which he also makes, in order to get 480p for a cleaner picture.

I own the cable and it works without issues with the R5x except 480i. You have to enable the invert option in the R5x settings to fix the output. Same goes for RGC cable. For more details and what settings to use with DC you can check out the "R5x DC cables & settings" video on my youtube channel if you like.

Glad the RT5X has the option to fix it, but imo I'd get a fully working cable that will work with all current and future scalers as well without needing an explicit software fix. Just my 2 cents though.

[WobblingPixels]

I don't think its a big deal considering that 15/31kHz cables are hard to find and 99% of all NTSC DC games support 480p (native or forced)

[TooBeaucoup]

Although, I agree that you should just get a properly designed cable from the start, what is there like, a dozen total Dreamcast games that can't be forced/patched to run 480P? I have the Dreamcast SCART cable from Retro Gaming Cables UK, and about 200 games on my GDEMU, and I've played every game at some point and I can't think of one that can't run at 480P. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure the titles that won't do 480P aren't exactly heavy-hitters that most would care about anyway. Certainly, choose a cable based on your needs, but I think very few people would take issue with any of the current cables available, whether they have proper 480i support or not.

[BuckoA51]

It's about 100 Dreamcast games that didn't support VGA and about half of those can be forced to do so against their will I believe, although I always found the switch trick very fiddly to get right (especially when your Dreamcast is up on a high shelf

https://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewto ... 4&start=20

[subcons]

I own the cable and it works without issues with the R5x except 480i. You have to enable the invert option in the R5x settings to fix the output. Same goes for RGC cable. For more details and what settings to use with DC you can check out the "R5x DC cables & settings" video on my youtube channel if you like.

Thanks for the info and making the video. I went ahead and ordered it, so I’m looking forward to trying it out when it arrives.

And with regards to getting a “proper cable,” I would, but every reputable cable maker/seller is out of stock like I mentioned. I may replace this one with an HD Retrovison component cable if that actually ever comes to fruition.

[TooBeaucoup]

It's about 100 Dreamcast games that didn't support VGA and about half of those can be forced to do so against their will I believe, although I always found the switch trick very fiddly to get right (especially when your Dreamcast is up on a high shelf

https://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewto ... 4&start=20

A fair point as well. While I wouldn't call the switch too much of a problem in my setup, there's no 480i games I care enough about playing that's going to make me want to dig behind my Dreamcast, so I just avoid the 480i titles.

[bobrocks95]

I own the cable and it works without issues with the R5x except 480i. You have to enable the invert option in the R5x settings to fix the output. Same goes for RGC cable. For more details and what settings to use with DC you can check out the "R5x DC cables & settings" video on my youtube channel if you like.

Thanks for the info and making the video. I went ahead and ordered it, so I’m looking forward to trying it out when it arrives.

And with regards to getting a “proper cable,” I would, but every reputable cable maker/seller is out of stock like I mentioned. I may replace this one with an HD Retrovison component cable if that actually ever comes to fruition.

Retro Access cable will be available for order in 4 days it says.

It's not a big deal at the end of the day, but it's the kind of thing where I'd like to see people selling products to the retro community held to higher standards. the.foo is presumably one person so that's a bit different, but why should RGC still be selling a cable with known problems after all this time? They should fix their design regardless and stop selling partially-broken cables.

[Odolwa]

When using Generic 16:9, I get an annoying line at the very end of the left side of my screen. Sometimes the line is green and sometimes it's white. Either way, I don't know how to remove it. I tried the scaling and cropping options, but they didn't work. Does anyone know what this line is and what I can do to remove it? Thanks.

[digitron]

When using Generic 16:9, I get an annoying line at the very end of the left side of my screen. Sometimes the line is green and sometimes it's white. Either way, I don't know how to remove it. I tried the scaling and cropping options, but they didn't work. Does anyone know what this line is and what I can do to remove it? Thanks.

Sorry this doesn't help much but I had the same issue and fixed with setting the cropping area over it. You might need to increase the opposite side of cropping to allow you to crop over it?

[subcons]

When using Generic 16:9, I get an annoying line at the very end of the left side of my screen. Sometimes the line is green and sometimes it's white. Either way, I don't know how to remove it. I tried the scaling and cropping options, but they didn't work. Does anyone know what this line is and what I can do to remove it? Thanks.

Sorry this doesn't help much but I had the same issue and fixed with setting the cropping area over it. You might need to increase the opposite side of cropping to allow you to crop over it?

Didn’t work for me either. What did work was changing the picture size setting on my TV from auto to normal. Poke around on your panel and see if there’s a similar setting. Also had to switch it back afterwards because it overcrops most other content outside the TINK.

[WobblingPixels]

When using Generic 16:9, I get an annoying line at the very end of the left side of my screen. Sometimes the line is green and sometimes it's white. Either way, I don't know how to remove it. I tried the scaling and cropping options, but they didn't work. Does anyone know what this line is and what I can do to remove it? Thanks.

Update to the latest experimental firmware version from r5x discord. Also crop options should work. You just have to increase h crop enough to see results

[BuckoA51]

The experimental firmware also adds 2560x1440 output resolution which is a must if you're on a LG C9 or other 4k set that doesn't support 1920x1440.

[digitron]

When using Generic 16:9, I get an annoying line at the very end of the left side of my screen. Sometimes the line is green and sometimes it's white. Either way, I don't know how to remove it. I tried the scaling and cropping options, but they didn't work. Does anyone know what this line is and what I can do to remove it? Thanks.

Sorry this doesn't help much but I had the same issue and fixed with setting the cropping area over it. You might need to increase the opposite side of cropping to allow you to crop over it?

Didn’t work for me either. What did work was changing the picture size setting on my TV from auto to normal. Poke around on your panel and see if there’s a similar setting. Also had to switch it back afterwards because it overcrops most other content outside the TINK.

Ah, I assumed you were on the latest firmware. Yes, what WobblingPixels said should fix your issue.

[subcons]

Ah, I assumed you were on the latest firmware. Yes, what WobblingPixels said should fix your issue.

I actually am on the latest (experimental) firmware. Maybe I missed something when I was trying to crop it out, but I couldn’t get it to go away no matter what I tried.

Doesn’t honestly matter much. I don’t really like PS2 games in widescreen, even when they support it. Pretty much everything I’m using the TINK for is 4:3 content, which it’s been awesome for so far.

[altgraph]

Hi,

So I've been eyeing the RetroTINK 5X-Pro because I think it might be good for my usecase; plugging in RGB from an Atari STE and RGB or Composite from an MSX.

However, I'm wondering about the RetroTink's ability to natively handle the somewhat special RGB signal from an Atari ST/E. I've seen several mentions of users combining an Ubeswitch (doing the Atari ST/E's 13-pin DIN => RGBHV VGA) with a VGA2SCART (converting RGBHV VGA to RGB SCART). Is this the only/correct way to get a good RGB picture out of the Atari ST/E with the RetroTINK 5X-Pro? Because it feels like... I dunno... too many steps.

I've also seen a few other mentions of the RetroTINK 5X-Pro being able to handle RGBHV via the SCART connector sooo... wouldn't the above solution be redundant then?

Then, does the RetroTINK 5X-Pro handle RGBHV via its SCART connector or not? Is the usage of an intermediary VGA2SCART necessary?

(Apologies if I've misunderstood something about this process. I'm just a n00b who'd like to know if I can get RGB out of my Atari STE using the RetroTINK 5X-Pro. )

[SavagePencil]

Hi,

So I've been eyeing the RetroTINK 5X-Pro because I think it might be good for my usecase; plugging in RGB from an Atari STE and RGB or Composite from an MSX.

However, I'm wondering about the RetroTink's ability to natively handle the somewhat special RGB signal from an Atari ST/E. I've seen several mentions of users combining an Ubeswitch (doing the Atari ST/E's 13-pin DIN => RGBHV VGA) with a VGA2SCART (converting RGBHV VGA to RGB SCART). Is this the only/correct way to get a good RGB picture out of the Atari ST/E with the RetroTINK 5X-Pro? Because it feels like... I dunno... too many steps.

I've also seen a few other mentions of the RetroTINK 5X-Pro being able to handle RGBHV via the SCART connector sooo... wouldn't the above solution be redundant then?

Then, does the RetroTINK 5X-Pro handle RGBHV via its SCART connector or not? Is the usage of an intermediary VGA2SCART necessary?

(Apologies if I've misunderstood something about this process. I'm just a n00b who'd like to know if I can get RGB out of my Atari STE using the RetroTINK 5X-Pro. )

I’m no expert but can you not go straight to SCART with something like this?

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ata ... le-tv-lead

[Ed Oscuro]

Might be somewhere in the thread already, but this caught my attention - capturing old video tapes (in various formats, I think) with the RetroTINK 5x-Pro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9VUqmTpfVM

[kitty666cats]

Might be somewhere in the thread already, but this caught my attention - capturing old video tapes (in various formats, I think) with the RetroTINK 5x-Pro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9VUqmTpfVM

https://nicole.express/2021/active-tink ... laser.html

Here’s a relevant/related article, with Laserdiscs.

I’m curious to see how the PixelFX Morph performs in regards to this type of stuff - they specifically mentioned it in the “roadmap”, so I definitely have some positive expectations. Here’s hopin’!

[BuckoA51]

Hi,

So I've been eyeing the RetroTINK 5X-Pro because I think it might be good for my usecase; plugging in RGB from an Atari STE and RGB or Composite from an MSX.

However, I'm wondering about the RetroTink's ability to natively handle the somewhat special RGB signal from an Atari ST/E. I've seen several mentions of users combining an Ubeswitch (doing the Atari ST/E's 13-pin DIN => RGBHV VGA) with a VGA2SCART (converting RGBHV VGA to RGB SCART). Is this the only/correct way to get a good RGB picture out of the Atari ST/E with the RetroTINK 5X-Pro? Because it feels like... I dunno... too many steps.

I've also seen a few other mentions of the RetroTINK 5X-Pro being able to handle RGBHV via the SCART connector sooo... wouldn't the above solution be redundant then?

Then, does the RetroTINK 5X-Pro handle RGBHV via its SCART connector or not? Is the usage of an intermediary VGA2SCART necessary?

(Apologies if I've misunderstood something about this process. I'm just a n00b who'd like to know if I can get RGB out of my Atari STE using the RetroTINK 5X-Pro. )

Someone posted on my forum that they had tried the ST's high res modes with the 5x and it doesn't work at all, though of course the regular ST video formats that most games are in are fine.

Might be somewhere in the thread already, but this caught my attention - capturing old video tapes (in various formats, I think) with the RetroTINK 5x-Pro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9VUqmTpfVM

The 5x wouldn't be my first choice for laserdiscs or VHS since it's deinterlacer is really designed for gaming, there's no cadence detection or of course timebase correction for VHS, but certainly in a pinch it works fairly well from what I've seen. Mike even had it working with consumer VHS players as a torture test for the triple buffer mode.

Has anyone tried medium res from e.g an X68000 with the 5x?

[Ed Oscuro]

One thing I would like to hear more about is a TBC-like function for video capture. TBCs buffer video lines as they come in from a tape deck and then feed them out according to a more precise timing reference than the sloppy old motors of a tape transport. The video I posted above does seem better than some other capture options, but perhaps it still has a bit of line waver - I'm not sure. Some guys in Argentina wrote a paper on implementing a TBC using an FPGA but it just seems to be limited to extremely basic description of the features...nothing approaching a ready-to-use design as far as I can tell. It's in great demand, as the $3000+ eBay pricing for old TBCs readily attests!

Whichever scaler implements a TBC gets my $300 and then some, in other words.

One other thing of note is that with a stable enough video output, frame stacking should be possible to reduce noise and improve the quality of video capture from any noisy source - this may include laserdisc as well as tape. I haven't discovered any indication the current astrophotography-oriented stacking tools can be used to quickly batch frames this way (i.e., there are tools that let you stack multiple photos or frames into a single photograph, but probably nothing like stacking multiple frames from multiple videos into new frames for a new video...and my batch-fu isn't that great either).

[BuckoA51]

Personally I think Mike, Markus etc should focus exclusively on gaming features and not get into the chaos that is high end video processing/handling for movies and TV shows etc. While I appreciate such features would be very useful to some folks, it's a niche of a niche and their time is better spent elsewhere.

Finding something like a VP50 or VP50 Pro is probably the way to go if you want to capture more than a handful of VHS, although I appreciate they are getting rarer too.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think DVDO devices have any TBC functionality. All I'm asking about is stabilizing line output; and given that jitter can crop up as a problem in strictly gaming contexts (like the NES), I'm not sure it's a totally unrelated feature.

[bobrocks95]

I thought the original Morph roadmap had that included?

[Guspaz]

Retro gaming scalers will work for recording tape in a pinch, but they're never going to be ideal. Their deinterlacers are not necessarily ideal for old tapes, they don't have 3D comb filters, they don't have TBC, etc.

Professional TBC devices are super expensive and may not be ideal (apparently many of them only do horizontal correction and VHS also benefits from vertical correction?), but I've seen recommendations of passing through DVD recorders with some specific Philips chips, and some capture devices with TBCs like the ADVC110 can be found used for under $200 USD. Though that's a Firewire device so you'd either need a firewire port on your computer (which they haven't had for like, 15 years or something), or get a firewire PCIe card, or if you have a thunderbolt port, you can chain a Firewire-to-TB2 adapter and a TB2-to-TB3 adapter.

[orange808]

Probably best to use svideo out from a good VCR, chain it through a ADC as "passthrough" 480i, and send it on to your capture device. Add a good DVD recorder as a passthrough from composite out as a comb filter for laserdisks. Archive a raw capture of your source and handle processing afterwards. Make yourself a deinterlaced and upscaled video file and drop it in your home media server--for easy viewing. If you're serious about getting something nice from a VCR tape, you really want a machine that can "transcode" your raw 480i to digital DVI/HDMI video. Handle deinterlacing and upscaling as postprocessing. (If you're really really serious, you will divide the raw 480i into individual scenes and master each one individually.) The Retrotink5x doesn't output 480i, so maybe try a DVDO iScan Pro or a Faroudja machine as a ADC. Corio2 should work, too.