Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[dingsbums]

Finally got the 1cc (1st & 2nd loop) at Contra for the Game Boy .




It seems to loop endlessly (the picture with the score is the beginning of the 3rd loop).
Differences between 1st & 2nd loop I noticed: more enemies, bosses take more hits, normal enemies fire more.

PS: Get this game it's awesome. The only flaw that I can think of - it's too short .

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I actually played through Operation C and Belmont's Revenge for the first time recently. Pretty neat games. I don't really feel like they surpassed their console counterparts, but they are both pretty consistently fun games with moments of brilliance (Operation C's final boss and CV2GB's penultimate boss are both really solid fights, and CV2 has a seriously fantastic soundtrack). As far as Game Boy games go, I know I need to give Gargoyle's Quest and Bionic Commando a shot too.

Been playing Demon's Crest and both 16-bit Contra games lately (Demon's Crest being what makes me want to play the Gargoyle's Quest games - I've played through it many times but never touched its predecessors). Demon's Crest has absolutely amazing aesthetics - certainly the best presentation on the SNES outside of maybe some jRPGs - but man, I certainly wish it were a bit tighter of a game. Red Arremer's crazy mobility is satisfying to play with but the enemies in that game just can't threaten you enough, for the most part, and most of the bosses are sort of on the weak side. Phalanx's final form is a top-tier boss though - amazing fight.

I have to say though - the secret final boss, the Dark Demon, just stumps me. I've beaten it many times, but only with heavy healing potion use. Has anyone here learned that fight well enough not to have to cheese it that way? I spent a few hours trying to properly learn the fight earlier, but I felt like I was just banging my head against a wall - his projectiles feel nearly impossible to work around. A quick look at Youtube tells me that people have managed to no-damage the fight though, so I have to imagine that there's something I'm missing.

Contra 3 and Hard Corps are great, of course - getting into them more than I ever have in the past. Finally managed to no-continue clear Contra 3's hard mode (that game would be a real arcade-level challenge if it weren't so generous with the extends). I'd like to try to no-miss it, but it'd definitely take some practice - the stage 4 boss usually gives me trouble. I came close to no-missing Hard Corps too (Neo-Bahamut route), which surprised me since I haven't put a great deal of time into that game. I used to always use Fang, but I've been having more fun with Sheena lately (and occasionally Ray). Both really badass games. I have a copy of Shattered Soldier sitting next to me that I got as a Christmas gift, but I haven't started it yet - I figure I'll dive into it once I feel like I'm tired of these two.

[mamboFoxtrot]

I have to say though - the secret final boss, the Dark Demon, just stumps me. I've beaten it many times, but only with heavy healing potion use. Has anyone here learned that fight well enough not to have to cheese it that way? I spent a few hours trying to properly learn the fight earlier, but I felt like I was just banging my head against a wall - his projectiles feel nearly impossible to work around. A quick look at Youtube tells me that people have managed to no-damage the fight though, so I have to imagine that there's something I'm missing.

Yeah, Dark Demon is fucking nuts. Well, I guess I should mention that Ultimate Gargoyle has a charge shot, if you didn't know. I sure as hell didn't for a while. That and Fang makes the fight go by a lot faster.

His form when he moves around the room is simple enough, though I can't say I know how to reliably avoid damage when under him during the pink waterfall attack. For the stationary form, it seems best to be on the left side, charge your attack, and then shoot while simultaneously heading for underneath him to get out of the way of the rocks.

Not that I can consistently beat this guy without using potions, but that seems to at least increase the odds for me.


And yeah, I will also agree that the level design doesn't pose much challenge in DC specifically since you have infinite flight and later the Aerial Gargoyle, but the game at times almost seems like it was designed around a grounded character. It's kinda like Castlevania IV in that regard. GQ2 is a lot better about not only making use of your limited flight, but your other shots like the Tornado and Claw (that Aerial utterly invalidates in DC - WHOOPS), but on the flip side the bosses are a lot dumber.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Ah yeah, I meant to touch on both of those but forgot to. No doubt, some of the later levels in Demon's Crest feel like they are balanced around playing them with the standard form. It feels a little like the game has a built-in difficulty selector - use the standard form with the buster / claw / tornado shots for a slightly more challenging game, and the crest forms if you want an easier time (for most of the game, anyway - of course the crest forms are mandatory in some segments). It's the only way the claw, tornado, and demon fire shots even make sense - the crest forms completely outmode them. And yeah, that's what has me interested in the Gargoyle's Quest games - the limited flight seems satisfying to work with.

[BIL]

Finally got the 1cc (1st & 2nd loop) at Contra for the Game Boy .

I love GB Contra - the combination of FC running and native autofire gives it a unique little style of its own within the series. Always fun to mow through, especially with the very speedkillable bosses (demolishing the second in one point-blank sweep never gets old). Attains a serious rollicking pace in its last two stages, even with the latter's autoscrolling! Much brisker than their FC Super Contra inspirations.

Totally earns its mentions in Contra Spirits' staff roll and Shin Contra's unlockable database. ^__^

I have to say though - the secret final boss, the Dark Demon, just stumps me. I've beaten it many times, but only with heavy healing potion use. Has anyone here learned that fight well enough not to have to cheese it that way?

I seem to recall learning to beat him without potions, but concluding a no-damage fight was way more effort than I was willing to expend (assuming I could even manage it). Some of his potential mixups did seem nearly if not actually undodgeable, though I could easily be dead wrong there!

The second Arremer/GQ game is my pick of the trilogy overall. Like the first, it has a restrictive feel that may be off-putting in comparison to the friendlier SFC game. Movement is on the slow side, health restores are scarce, and it's startlingly easy to run afoul of enemies and hazards. It suits the tightly focused level design, though. Pushing the limits of the hover/grip tandem in search of vital footholds gives it a brutal athleticism only glimpsed on SFC. Surviving the early jungle alone entails more intensive grappling than anything in the latter. An essential latter-days Capcom FC highlight, along with Nemo, Dead Fox and 2010SF.

Been revisiting Metal Storm this week, with aspirations of a decent 2-ALL. In the past couple years I'd return, get the first loop down without fuss, then get massacred somewhere around the loop's third stage and move on yet again. Decided this time I'd take full advantage of the game's password system, to learn the loop stage by stage. Strong recommend, especially as the game will very nicely store your current password in memory - upon Game Over, hit reset, go to "Password" and press start. Voila, back at current stage with your existing powerups and life stock!

The alternative, straight continuing after Game Over, means restarting the current checkpoint sans powerups. And that's no good, because several loop checkpoints are fucking impossible (or near it) without them! 3-2's monorail+striker inferno comes to mind... I'm sure you could do it without G's invincible frames, but for Joe 2-ALLer it's gonna end in tears. Ideally I suggest nailing the first loop with a no-miss and your powerup of choice, then taking on the second stage-by-stage from there. Here's my loop starter PW. ;3

Spoiler

After a couple days, managed to finish the loop for the first time, then got my first straight runthrough of it this evening. Will see if I can get that 2-ALL over the weekend! But my point is, for anyone else playing this beast of a game, use them PWs. Once you hit the loop, continues rapidly become useless; even stage 1-1 is an absolute pain in the ass without gear. Sans PWs and the segmented practice they afford, this would without a doubt in my mind be the toughest sidescroller on the machine, possibly Japanese consoles period. Even with them it's formidable. State of the art sidescrolling murder machinery. And I totally missed yet another Image Fight parallel, with both games involving off-planet weapons installations going balls-out and the player invading to pull teh plug!

edit: also, rotating Metal Storm with Daimakaimura is so good. Blistering contrasts of precision and volatility... a veritable sidescrolling bag of flavour blasted goldfish.

[cicada88]

I recently checked the Everdrive N8 support forum for the first time in ages, and I see that someone has created a new Sunsoft 5B audio mapper that is extremely close to an official cart.

I've been pretty consistently looking for a decent deal on an official Gimmick! cart for a year to no avail, but I think I'm finally going to update these mappers and give it a go tonight for the first time. Hopefully it lives up to the hype.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Contra 3 hard mode no-miss foiled by the stage 4 boss (one death) and a really unfortunate slip-up right at the start of stage 6. Painful, but it is by far my best attempt at the game so I'm okay with that progress. I'm not sure I'll ever be totally comfortable against the stage 4 boss though. I also have to say I actually like the top-down levels... More sidescrolling levels would be preferred, no doubt, but lining up crush shots in the top-down bits is still pretty satisfying.

Playing a lot of 3 and Hard Corps back to back - both fantastic, but I'm definitely coming to prefer 3. It's a little easier to sit down and replay Hard Corps a bunch of times in a row because of the different routes and playable characters, but 3 really is a better-paced game, and the greater amount of randomness makes a big difference. It helps that 3 probably has a cooler finale than any of Hard Corps' four, too (although the Neo-Bahamut path comes kind of close - shame that after several intense bosses, that one closes out on possibly the weakest out of all of HC's endbosses).

I really should jump back into Metal Storm's second loop one day. It remains one of the only non-arcade games to actually stump me - I made it up to stage 4 and ended up putting the game down, shamefully. I think just restarting from the start of the level every time instead of starting from 4-2 would make things easier, but man, that stage 4 midboss gave me a lot of trouble. I've been playing Holy Diver off and on (hey, another game where stage 4 is problematic - that goddamn tower boss....), maybe I'll revisit Metal Storm after that.

[BIL]

Contra III Hard with just two misses is really good, especially with them occurring in the RNG maelstrom of st4's boss and the seething sudden deathfest that is st6. It's a real pressure cooker of a no-death run... the intensity is off the charts at those points. Extends? What are those again? You ain't killing me you ugly motherfuckers! Good thing I've got all these BOMBAS!

I have quite a bit to write about that beautiful selection of games later - particularly Holy Diver and Metal Storm, the latter of which I have put forward to my esteemed colleague DR. BIRUFORDSHIRE for admission to the official good sidescrolling list. Masterful game.

[MommysBestGames]

I finally started Odallus recently and have really enjoyed it. The art looks great, some good expressive animations, even though it's not a lot of frames.
My favorite parts have been all the secrets and the level design in general. I like the big open spaces to explore around and "being not quite sure" what's going on, but it's never too hard to figure out. The interlocking of upgrades and exploring new areas has been fun. Also loving the monster variety and the variety of their attacks and some good bosses for sure.

Re: Odallus
My biggest problem with Odallus is the sword swing, in terms of design. It honestly makes no sense to me. On one hand, the swing is laggy as heck, and locks you in place for a while. But on the other hand, you can jump cancel it at will. So you neither get that heavy commitment of Classic Castlevania, nor the speedy on the fly sword swinging of something like Hagane, Strider, or Ninja Gaiden. Maybe if the sword had a long wind up and the damaging hitbox came at the end of the swing, it would make sense. Giving you an emergency escape route, but forcing you to find longer windows to actually do damage...except the hitbox is actually at the very start of the animation, followed by a lengthy and pointless cooldown which you will then proceed to jump cancel every single time.

Not certain on this, but I'm guessing the dev has done an update since you've played it since the original release. I checked today and you can't jump-cancel the sword swing. And I think it's only 3 frames long? It seems okay--not 1-frame fast. In any case, the jump-cancel is not there, and maybe they've sped it up in general?
(Hmm.. I just checked a let's play from 6 months ago and it looks similar, so guess they did not speed up the swing.)

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^I just booted it up just now to check and holy crap they did change it. It's no longer cancellable and the recovery is subtley shorter now (I think they chopped a few frames off the end recovery, the swing itself feels the same and was alright to begin with). Feels much better.

My playthrough was back on launch day (marathon-ed it in a day) back in July, so I could see how I could miss that. I forget we're in a brave new world of patches here :3

This makes me want to give it another playthrough, now. I still think the level design was a bit "okay" but maybe veteran mode (another new addition) can help that out.

*edit*

Just checked a non-updated DRM free download of the game on my pc, and yeah, I can confirm that the recovery on swings is several frames longer or more in the original and cancellable from the start.

[MommysBestGames]

Not to derail, but it's both great and bad when a patch fixes things. I love that devs can respond to changes and fix things.
Though in this case, I would imagine something as fundamental as "main attack" had been set for a long time. So to the devs, the attack was fine. Come launch, and they get a lot of complaints and acquiesce. I did the same thing on Serious Sam DD.. personally I like a 'floaty jump' because it gives me time to dodge things, but most people don't and I ended up changing the player jump in the XXL update.
On the other hand I wish devs (myself included) could get it right the first time! I think for matters of taste, and not bugs, it's much tougher to get right first.. maybe that's when patching is okay to get a broader play sample, and fix gameplay.
So.. I guess as Odallus stands now (more responsive sword swing) I'm glad we have patches.

[BIL]

Not to derail...

Not at all, this thread welcomes the nittiest grittiest of mechanical discussions in addition to more general appreciation. ;3

I'm in two minds about patches. For modern-day stuff, I think it's great, no question. I have a disinclination about altering even the most heartbreakingly flawed 80s/90s stuff, though... I think the "carved in stone" nature of those games is part of their appeal, for better and worse. Holy Diver's input cancel glitches are a goddamn mustache on the Mona Lisa - the game would be remarkably freeform for such a hellish ballbreaker, if you didn't have to constantly beware tripping over your own dick and pratfalling into a pit. Airtight controls would actually make it more intense. Yet as trivial as proposing a correction would be, I don't think I'd like to. If the game had received a revision of some sort though, I'd be on it in a second. Weird, I know. I like it though!

This is partially why I don't participate much in the Dream Game Hacks thread, unless I've discovered something that embodies the game I desire. (eg Elemental Master with hellish instakill checkpoint fangs -> Psycho Chaser).

[MommysBestGames]

Re: Odallus
The only other control issue that bugs me in a similar manner is the (later acquired) Mega Man X dash that requires double tapping instead of having its own button. You'll understand very shortly why every X and Zero game had a dedicated button for dashing :\

Because I just got to it today--they changed this too in Odallus! Dash now has its own button.

I'm in two minds about patches. For modern-day stuff, I think it's great, no question. I have a disinclination about altering even the most heartbreakingly flawed 80s/90s stuff, though... I think the "carved in stone" nature of those games is part of their appeal, for better and worse.

I agree that older games should stay put. You can't play them intensely and compare experiences with other players if they kept changing.
Hmmm...remember how "gone gold" used to mean the game was finished? Like the PS1 era and such... before updates. I wish we could apply that to today's games, and if a dev says the game has "gone gold" (or some such) they mean, it's *done*. No more updates, or patches, you can now count on it and start playing it "for real".

[BIL]

Hwaaa. Finally recorded a Metal Storm 2-ALL / No miss. Couple of FML moments in there, most notably a near-fatal error at 2-5's outset. I always get nervy flaming through that tiny gap amid frame-instant laserdeath. I'll take it though! I made it to the TLB twice this morning before biting it, LOLOL. And oh shi - it's time for another startling episode of 2ND OPINON



I'm glad I finally sat down with Metal Storm's second loop. It's an Irem sidescroller, and thus particularly foreboding! I'd wondered if they might have again succumbed to some tragic 11th-hour flaw... Ninja Spirit's wincingly poor penultimate challenge, or Holy Diver's input stumbles. Mercifully, MS realises its riveting potential without issue.

Where Ninja Spirit is an RNG hellstorm, and Holy Diver emulates Dracula's treachery, MS's loop is more akin to The Super Shinobi: a relatively static assault course with a high-finesse performance ceiling, calibrated for ever swifter demolitions. The puzzlebox layout inherited from Image Fight gives it a nastier entry curve for sure; like IF's loop, there are points where mere survival will seem elusive. The comprehensive password system strikes an excellent arcade/console balance here: allowing the assembly of a stage-by-stage battle plan, on the condition that deaths and bad tactics are your responsibility to refine away. Implicitly, the player is encouraged to not merely scrape through tough spots but authoritatively conquer them - a primitive yet functional forebear of the practice mode enjoyed by later generations. I particularly love its automatic entering of your current stage PW upon resetting the console... very considerate!

I'm also impressed with the loop's weapon balance, or at least two-thirds of it (ignoring S's passive, limiting shield). P's speedkiller shot and G's body ram offer radically differing solutions to most situations - I'm already wanting to go back and tinker with my chosen tactics.

Chief criticism would be the chugging slowdown at a handful of loop chokepoints... but given their rarity, brevity and the accompanying crushing pressure, it's easily pardonable. It's clear the designers knew to be sparing with onscreen chaos; the majority of the loop is a model of lethal efficiency. As is my wont, I also managed to ferret out a control glitch - if you're at the precise moment of gravity inversion during a scene transition or death, your next gravity jump won't register. Potentially lethal, needless to say. Happily, you can preemptively defuse the glitch with a jump - even the tiniest hop will work. I found myself doing this out of habit after entering a new scene/respawning, whenever a critical gravity jump was imminent.

I also noticed the earlier NES version's colour palette, though a bit garish, allows better bullet visibility. They're a burning angry red there, versus the FC's orange/white. However, the game's nature leaves this largely moot - you'll rarely be fired at unexpectedly, and onscreen flak is generally sparse. Ultimately, the FC's revised and far more interesting sixth stage wins out.

re Contra III:

I also have to say I actually like the top-down levels... More sidescrolling levels would be preferred, no doubt, but lining up crush shots in the top-down bits is still pretty satisfying.

I was pleasantly surprised by the topdown stages, too. I didn't get to play Spirits until really late in the day, and was expecting them to be unfocused, sludgy tech demos. Quite the contrary, they're classic topdown seek/destroy ala Assault, with handling and performance just as sharp as the main stages. They're fast, too - it helps that I love this sort of action, but regardless you can rip through them in no time with a little routing. Some real tension in st5's more perilous straits - the game can spring some nasty surprises while you're edging along a chasm.

I could definitely see the crazy spinner tiles annoying some though, haha. I just book through those pronto. Knowing you can neutralise them with fast (double-tapped) rotation is critical, I shudder to think about going without that.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Wow - insane stuff! Despite having played a ton of platformers, the brutality of Irem's stuff always gets me; no other platformer I've played other than Ghosts 'n Goblins really compares. Add me to the list of people bummed out by Holy Diver's janky input - it really drags the game down from "all-time great" to "very cool game" for sure.

Yeah, I think Contra 3's top-down levels are honestly fine. They control sharply, there's a lot of freedom in how you can handle the levels, the unique enemies (like the dome soldiers and red centipdedes) are fun to deal with, they're super-random, both of their bosses are cool (stage 2's could maybe stand to be a bit more threatening, though)... solid stuff. I don't really get why they're so maligned. But I'm someone who likes the weird genre shift in Devil May Cry's final boss, so par for the course I guess.

Played a lot of Contra the last few days. The night before last I sat down with (the arcade) Super Contra, only having played a little of it before, and decided to grind it out for a couple of hours. As a result I ended up clearing the game, which I'm glad to have taken care of; it's been bugging me for a while. I'm honestly not much of a fan of it though. The slow aiming is intensely frustrating, combined with the odd-feeling jumps, rapidly-appearing enemies (the fast red floating skull things in stage 4...), some obnoxious terrain (the visibility-blocking trees in stage 3, goddamn). And the weapon pickups being difficult to tell apart is frustrating too. Annoying game. But it's only really frustrating because it's clearly very promising - iron out its flaws and I believe you'd have a game that honestly stands head and shoulders over its predecessor and both of the NES games. Great music, fantastic rapid pacing, largely interesting and varied stages, gimmick stages that are orders of magnitude better than the first game's - despite its flaws, it's still a respectable game, and it certainly has some real moments of intensity that go unmatched by the NES port.

A couple of hours ago, I 1LCed Contra 3's hard mode, then immediately afterwards pulled off my first 1LC of Hard Corps (the alien hive route, with Sheena). Good stuff. It seems strange to me that people typically declare Hard Corps to be more difficult than 3 - do they just judge 3 by its default difficulty? Regardless, even if it doesn't ever really match 3's intensity, the feeling of tearing down hordes of enemies and bosses with each character's ridiculous arsenals is always satisfying, and it's such an over-the-top game that most of its setpieces don't really get old even after 15+ replays.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^Yeah, the people who say Hardcorps is harder, just haven't fully memorized both games. Hardcorps is only harder if you take it's memo-gimmicks at face value and assume they won't (spoiler: they actually will) become easier with foreknowledge. When both games are fully memorized, 3 is quite a bit harder due to a lot more reflex-demanding random spots and a number of tighter situations throughout.

I guess it's also because 3 gives out a lot of resources, making a 1cc or a credit-fed run a lot more attainable for most people. Hardcorps on the other hand has some nasty recoveries if you don't already know what you're doing. In the 1lc department though, 3 is waaaaay more dangerous no matter how you slice it.

And yeah, I agree about Super Contra. Lots of potential. It's slow as molasses (in terms of both player and bullet speed) but the chunky action feels great during the hectic stage 4. Some nice level design and enemy variety in 3-4, too. Needs a black label with non-shitty aiming.

[BIL]

Congrats on the Contra III Hard 1LC, Ilpalazzo! It's a helluva thing to get roped into, but it feels so good when it's done.

Contra III (Hard) and Gimmick (true end) exhibit a favourite console action philosophy of mine: make a first-rate credit uncompromisingly tough, but include enough resources that nobody feels shut out. Anyone who wants a steep challenge will find it waiting for them.

AC Super Contra, oh man. The game that shattered my child-like faith in the categorical superiority of the arcades. I guess it did me a favour. In many regards I do consider it far superior to the NES version, but having grown up with those flawless controls I was aghast at the aim lag. As it is, I follow three precepts:

1) only use machinegun / super machinegun (the former can achieve SMG-like results by tapping). max focused destruction.
2) only aim in cardinal directions while on the ground
3) restrict diagonal aim to during jumps

What a palava. 3: I love the brutally relentless pace and hulking coinop aesthetic though. Floor-shaking explosions, lavishly detailed graphics (dig the shattered remains of destroyed machinery), that BEEFEH AF guitar sound... it's worth tolerating.

---

Holy Diver. Good lord, this hasn't aged well after the last couple years. Daimakaimura, Alien Soldier, Contra Spirits, Gimmick, Ninja Five-O, TNWA, Taromaru, Metal Storm, The Super Shinobi... never mind keystones like Dracula and Ryukenden. After quality time on these and more, I'd almost forgotten what bad controls were. I'm kinda tempted to trade off my eye-pokingly mint boxed copy. Only kinda, though! I still love its actualisation of the head-crushing beast casual NES fans mythologise Contra, CV and NG as. Wrong, nubs! The monster is a bit further out there, and it'll make you weep for those games. Your shrieks will cut short as your noobcaek skulls splinter in its jaws like goddamn peanut M&M's! :O

Also! Too many rad metal references in its enemy names for me to part with it. Songs, record labels, magazines - too bad these guys didn't seem to know anything about coding action games. It's hard if not impossible to enjoy the challenge when I'm just as likely to die by malfunctioning controls or, more rarely, the inexplicably horrid sprite dropout (this isn't what I'd call "flicker" - projectiles outright vanish from sight for seconds at a time, with little appreciable reason). The latter's the lesser evil but exponentially worsened when I can't even operate the character reliably.

You absolutely can learn to work with this game - you will learn, if you hope to finish it even with continues. But coming back after a long time away, it's startlingly apparent how critically flawed it is - as much as a pad with superbly responsive parts that shorts out when inputs coincide. Approach with care, lest you join me in this love/hate heavy metal damnation...

Oh wellz. I'm finally motivated to try out Dragon Fighter's Hard mode.

[CIT]

Same love/hate feels about Holy Diver, also having revisited it recently. There's a lot to like here: the concept, the style, the heavy metal machismo, the ball-crushing difficulty — but in the end it's just not a very carefully put together game. The best action games reward the well-trained player by making him truly feel like a one-man killing machine. Holy Diver's clunkiness and endgame RNG-excesses just makes you feel like a blindfolded guy walking a tight-rope while juggling live hand grenades.

[dojo_b]

This morning I bettered my previous 1LCs of Ninja Gaiden---got a no-miss run without powerups. That is, I avoided any substantive use of subweapons, time-stop, flame shield, and health potions. I did allow myself to discharge subweapons uselessly when picked up by accident. I'm also in the habit of slashing the extra lives and letting them fall, in a ritual gesture of contempt.

Playing with limited powerups has made the game even more enjoyable. It multiplies the tense moments (particularly against air attacks and platform-edge-guarding SOBs, even as early as Act 2); it eliminates the filler moments of coupon-collecting; and it promotes a steady flow state of runnin' and killin'. The refusal of health potions also creates an endurance gauntlet in 5-1 thru 5-3 (a really fun and varied sequence, IMO) to rival the challenges of Act 6.

I'd thought that playing a game beyond the basic 1CC/1LC attainments would be a masochistic quest, but actually at this level of skill my playing has become much more relaxed and casual. I anticipate just about every enemy attack and my strategies are all worked out, so I can play on autopilot while exploring new music. The game is so brisk, brief, and its basic pleasures so satisfying that I never grew bored. The failures are even less frustrating.

***

Also been feeling a distinct hankering for some more Metal Storm, especially after BIL's triumph. And having caught the bug, I now really want to play it on original hardware---though that's a warning sign as bright and clear as beer bottles on my nightstand. Really having trouble committing to the NES purchase, though, when the Famicom's stage 6 is so much more brilliant and ravaging. I don't even see that version for sale. And then even if I got it, would my lone FC cart just sit there lonely? Would I buy an FDS too just to play SMB2 JP, my other key import? (Then an x68000 to play its Akumajou Dracula?) It all seems a little ridiculous.

[BIL]

From heavy metal sidescrolling to the perils of chasing the dragon. I like a good segue.

I think I'd be ok with NES Metal Storm. The FC's sixth stage is awesome, but not something I'd go far out of my way for - the NES st6 does throw in several more enemies, and the loop's otherwise identical. I'd rather get some NES exclusives like Shatterhand (even better than Solbrain, albeit marginally), KID's sidescrollers, and the cart versions of FDS stuff like Section Z, Gyruss and Jackal.

I don't think I'll ever get into magnetic media, haha. Not enough permanence for my liking... have you tried Castlevania Chronicles (PS1)? Original Mode should sort you out reasonably well for Dracula X68k.

Hobbyists of all stripes must remember this particular teaching of JESU ;3

[CIT]

I don't think I'll ever get into magnetic media, haha. Not enough permanence for my liking...

The FCD games have been holding up pretty well actually. The bigger issue tends to be that back in the day people often overwrote their games. So what looks like Armana No Kiseki on the cover may turn out to be Nazo No Murasamejou on the inside.

[BrianC]

I'm not sure if I'll jump on the FDS, but I do have a bunch of disk games for the Atari 800 XL, which are holding up surprisingly well.

[EmperorIng]

I managed to 1CC PC Engine mode of Ninja Spirit, to my scrubby satisfaction. The proudest moment was actually surviving the Ninja death-pit on my first attempt; however, having only 1 health at that point meant that I was quickly defeated. Nonetheless a fresh life made quick work of the evil monk and his ninja-perverting ways.

I tried arcade mode a bit, and I'm not sure if I can handle it. On top of deaths coming far more frequently, it seems as if the enemies are a lot more aggressive too (the musketmen in st3 seem to fire quicker and more often). There seems to be a lot of places where RNG would just screw you over, like those... gas explosions starting around st4 or thereabouts.

Despite that I think Ninja Spirit is with Splatterhouse for my favorite non-STG HuCard.*

I need to get better at Genpei Toumaden Kannoni. I like the arcade game but I have long lamented not knowing what the hell I'm doing during its crucial big-mode fighting stages. Seeing that Kannoni is comprised entirely of those stages, it makes my lack of skill all the more apparent (though the sequel's lighter difficulty yields greater gains: it's tooth-and-nail just to reach Kyoto in the arcade game, whereas getting to the penultimate area is fairly simple in the sequel).

*This may be pending deeper delving into Legendary Axe. I like the game, though it seems pretty janky with its jumps, especially on the canyon vine-swinging st3. Very frustrating.

[Strider77]

not sure why that double posted

[Strider77]

The proudest moment was actually surviving the Ninja death-pit

That was what kept me beating that game as a child. I loved the game but couldn't best that part. Quite a few years ago I got the PC Engine version and came on here talking about that part getting me again. I was able to beat that part finally with the info given to me on here.

It's crazy when I think how many years I've been on here now. I should try to lick up that thread to see how long ago that was.

UPDATE it was 2008

[Squire Grooktook]

I managed to 1CC PC Engine mode of Ninja Spirit, to my scrubby satisfaction. The proudest moment was actually surviving the Ninja death-pit on my first attempt; however, having only 1 health at that point meant that I was quickly defeated. Nonetheless a fresh life made quick work of the evil monk and his ninja-perverting ways.

I tried arcade mode a bit, and I'm not sure if I can handle it. On top of deaths coming far more frequently, it seems as if the enemies are a lot more aggressive too (the musketmen in st3 seem to fire quicker and more often). There seems to be a lot of places where RNG would just screw you over, like those... gas explosions starting around st4 or thereabouts.

I can't speak for pc-engine arcade mode, but the gas traps aren't random at least (also they debut on stage 5) in the actual arcade version. They're static traps that are in the same place everytime. The rest is random though.

Most of the RNG in arcade Ninja Spirit is chaos but very much reactable. There are no unwinnable situations, just pure reaction and occaisional "how did I survive that" moments. The biggest seemingly insurmountable obstacle are the samurai who appear on stage 4 onward, but once you understand how they move and their swing, you can get past them with some finesse every time.

[BIL]

I tried arcade mode a bit, and I'm not sure if I can handle it. On top of deaths coming far more frequently, it seems as if the enemies are a lot more aggressive too (the musketmen in st3 seem to fire quicker and more often). There seems to be a lot of places where RNG would just screw you over, like those... gas explosions starting around st4 or thereabouts.

I'm honestly not sure if anything but hitpoints differs between AC and PCE modes... haven't spent enough time in the latter to say. But for st3-1, POW chain is the way to go. Snuffs out riflemen and their bullets on the ground, wipes out ninjas in the air, and beats down even ranked-up no-miss giants with a little persistence (this is for style points, really - you can just as easily run past them. I like to hammer 'em on approach, then deliver the kill while leaping over). Note the giants slash on a set rhythm, and are otherwise harmless to touch like every other humanoid enemy. Let 'em whiff, run in close, and leap clear before they can recover. About the chain - just like the PCB, note you don't need elaborate 360 motions to get the fullscreen sweep. Just hold the direction adjacent to the one you're attacking in as the chain reaches its length, and it'll lash right around. eg, attack [right] then hold [up]. Even on the ground, this works great for shredding oncoming riflemen, leaping ninja and backstabbing pursuers in one stroke.

When you reach 3-2's marsh, POW sword is ideal. Bunnyhop to keep your speed up, ward off wolves and ninjas with the sword, and watch carefully for monks. If they rush straight at you, leap over and keep moving. If they stop to launch the staff, wait for it to fly some distance then hop straight through the gap. Careful with the sword while doing this - hitting an airborne staff will cause it to return prematurely. Easily done with all the zako swarming about. Don't bother killing monks, that's a good way to get a katana in the face / wolf up the ass.

It's really just stage 4-2's spikey basement where you can get seriously hosed by RNG: specifically, a samurai (or two!) spawning as you're traversing the ceilings, with nowhere to run but straight down into the spikes. Just about anywhere else, the worst misfortunes can be consistently planned and improvised around. When 4-2 goes ideally it feels like divine favour, when it goes acceptably it's buttock-clenching terror, and when it goes to shit I want to restart the run. >_< POW grenades seem ideal. I like waiting for a samurai to spawn up ahead, then blanketing him with shots while leaping forward and rushing across the ceiling in one swoop. Keeping your shadows nice and trailed out so you can quickly blast any coming up from behind helps too, I find. I get a pretty healthy success rate, but it's always nervy. Note that samurai are harmless while airborne - useful for slipping past and/or landing hits.

God I love the one-two combo of stages 3 and 4. Infinitely adrenal tactical ninja action.

Stage 5's cliff face and its gas traps are actually harder to deal with in the port than the PCB, due to the reduced viewable playfield. It's not insurmountable, but you'll want to devise a repeatable route (the traps are always in the same places, as are the various ninjas). I like using chain sweeps to keep the screen clear of enemy grenades. Easier and safer than the sword, given the treacherous footing.

AC mode's not as bitterly intense as the PCB, but it's most definitely not easy, either. I've yet to no-miss it; furthest I got was the final stage and promptly eating a gas trap. Just like the PCB, the game's deadliest trait is its erratic timing on big spawns... you can learn where they'll be, roughly, but there'll always be a slight variance that can easily spiral into disaster without deft handling.

MFN ninja pit, honestly. What a fly in the ointment. How 2 Ninja Pit PCE Ver: (posted many times before, but always the off chance someone might need it!)

Spoiler

Still, I ain't complaining. 99% perfect ain't bad at all. One of my favourite-ever sidescrollers, and my most beloved HuCard.

edit: oh yeah I knew there was something! Square_Air you are officially assigned to the task force. Don't protest. THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO (・｀W´・) ;3

I'm sat here like a prick waiting for my new gamepad to show up. 3:

[Obiwanshinobi]

"Collect 'em up" rather than "kill 'em all" action, but Captain Claw ("Predatory Edition" as it says on the box) makes for an interesting excercise in playing 2D sidescroller with a keyboard after well over ten years' worth of 2D platforming & shmupping almost exclusively with gamepads. Accidentally, my left thumb, while just about fine operating thumbsticks, can barely make DualShock's L3 "click" and still is not much good with d-pad.
Which makes GBA SP exclusively a turn-based games platform at the moment and most console shmups - laying fallow (digital input with analogue stick in shmups doesn't do it for me; interestingly, some 2D platform games can get away with it, like A Shadow's Tale).

Captain Claw being a PC game, I thought "why not make use of my handsomely mechanical keyboard for a change?" - and the experience is pretty awkward. As if most of the muscular memory gathered when using joypad had abandoned me. I wonder how would I like playing 2D GTA or the first MGS with a keyboard now (which I did like back in the day).

As for Captain Claw itself, due to the above reason I refrain from assessing its handling or difficulty. I do, however, like the stage design better than that of both Turrican clones I played in recent years (Hurrican and Gunlord). Which is relevant, since Captain Claw represents a similar oldschool computer platform game style (seemingly bigger levels than you'd expect of this genre console game, with more backtracking to do despite all of it being quite linear - I can't remember a single branching path or shortcut so far; just optional areas, typically more difficult to access or explore than obligatory course).
Anyway, Captain Claw does this kind of level design rather well. I do not know how much fun replaying it is once you explore and collect the lot, but I can see why level editor has proven popular with the fans (I suppose this edition's bonus content is fan-made levels).

Could be my (32-bit WinXP) system, but sometimes the background scroll oddly stutters. You'd think DirectDraw via hardware ought to handle it smoothly in a 1998 game... Then again, it could be the parallax scrolling (looks tacked on when it's there) that gives it trouble (can be disabled in options, so it must have been laying some stress on 1998 PCs). Funny how mine runs UT with flying colours, but can't seem to do much about this. Reminds me of bizarrely slow hardware 2D acceleration in Disciples II (whereas - not officially supported - 3D acceleration worked a treat in that one).

[dojo_b]

The pre-2000 era of sidescrolling action / 2D platformer games on PC seems to get little love or discussion today, so it's nice to read about Captain Claw and would be good to see more such tips around here. Did such games ever reach parity with the console titles they imitated? (Does any Jazz Jackrabbit PC title rival Sonic, for instance? Is there any reason at all to play Commander Keen?)

My personal (fallible) recollection is

-that, graphically, these games always looked a bit trashy and amateurish by comparison (even with higher-resolution pixel art than SNES/Genesis);

-that static room-based views were much more common in 2D PC games, as fluid side-scrolling on the PC took quite a long time to catch up with console technology---by which time 2D PC games were already being abandoned in favor of DOOM, Myst, et al.;

-that PC side-scrollers tended to incorporate puzzles (even when they were not outright edutainment) and leaned toward more parent-approved themes, which just felt sad given the brutish violence on offer in the console space;

-that PC games, blessed (or cursed) with abundant ROM, generally abandoned the NES model of short, difficult limited-lives games, in favor of long ones with frequent checkpoints or free use of save-states. This reduced the need for skill to win and lessened the psychological impact of a difficult level or boss. (Of course, it doesn't preclude skilled play aiming for speed, no-miss, etc.)

[Ed Oscuro]

Odallus + Oniken are bundled together on Steam for $7.59 until the 11th, so I picked them up.