What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Hung out with colour_thief on the weekend, got to get a scrubby easy clear of TGM2, and also got to play more Hexion, a really cool Konami port of a puzzle game originally called Hextris by David Markley (he's even credited on the title screen): https://www.hextris.com/

Hexion's rad, the colours and music are adorable, the penguins are cute as all hell, then there's the Twinbee ship with the inexplicable banner that says "NEVER SAY DIE!"... it's really fun. There's also some interesting modes including VS, co-op, and some wacky single player levels like an extra wide layout, an extra long layout (where the pieces fall to the bottom on one side then teleport to the other side as if you're playing Tetris with a twice as long tube), and then a diagonally slanted board that's as unique as it is difficult.

Got to spend some time with the arcade version of Gunstar Heroes as well on a Sega Mega Play pcb, wrote about that already. It's basically the Genesis version with much less starting health in each stage. Very fun to have another 1CC under my belt, I actually thought it'd be brutally difficult having to do the last stage at 80 starting health but it turns out they generously upped the health items on that level from +10 to be +40, so you still get a fair bit of health there.

Also revisited Makai Toushi SaGa/Final Fantasy Legend as there was a Japanese page that mentioned there was an exploit that let you get multiple copies of the best piece of equipment in the game, the headband/BAND (So-Cho's Headband) which has enormous Def and immunity to all elements and status effects. As it turns out, the first Japanese release let you drop a key item you get after this scene, allowing you to redo the event that gets you the headband. There was a later revision of the game that fixed this, and it appears the USA release is based on this bugfixed version... but the fix was done in a way that introduces a way to softlock the game. If you accidentally drop the key item you get afterwards, unlike all other key items you can't recollect it, so if you drop the Erase99 prior to beating Su-Zaku and then save, you've ruined your save file.

[BIL]

Hung out with colour_thief on the weekend, got to get a scrubby easy clear of TGM2, and also got to play more Hexion, a really cool Konami port of a puzzle game originally called Hextris by David Markley (he's even credited on the title screen): https://www.hextris.com/

Hexion's rad, the colours and music are adorable, the penguins are cute as all hell, then there's the Twinbee ship with the inexplicable banner that says "NEVER SAY DIE!"... it's really fun. There's also some interesting modes including VS, co-op, and some wacky single player levels like an extra wide layout, an extra long layout (where the pieces fall to the bottom on one side then teleport to the other side as if you're playing Tetris with a twice as long tube), and then a diagonally slanted board that's as unique as it is difficult.

Holy cow, never even heard of that one! I'd nab an ACA release on sight; I wonder if there'd be any trademalarkey involved. Then again, ACA TGM+TGM2, and I guess Qix, so maybe it's not too impossible.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's really fun, but it's tricky to wrap my head around the piece placement. Unlike Tetris where everything is flat and orderly, the hexagonal nature means certain pieces feel really difficult to distinguish and I don't have a second nature grasp for where to fit things instinctively yet, whereas in Tetris I can see where to put things and a screwup is clearly an execution mistake due to high speed, rather than a "I have no idea where I can put this" issue.

Another change from Tetris is that two pieces are introduced later into the game, a C piece and a Y piece, when you hit about 30 lines cleared, meaning there's more pieces to manage than in Tetris. However, I find that it's easier to rotate and slide pieces into gaps than in Tetris, it seems more forgiving that way somehow?

I'd assume there's no trademark issues as while the source game is clearly inspired by Tetris, it's way too different in terms of how it functions. It actually showcases some really modern mechanics that weren't in Tetris games at the time it was made (1992), such as showing you one of the hexagons in the piece as twinkling/glowing, indicating the part of the piece where the rotation/pivot is. It's really ahead of its time, Konami did a great job refining Hextris into Hexion.

[BryanM]

All this talk about Yoko Taro waifus reminded me of Hotshot Racing - a racing game in the retro-style of early polygon racers. But not as bad looking.

I think that's as big an obstacle Outrun (and a lot of other old Sega games) have: massive competition. Nobody expected Dragon's Crown to be as big as it was, and making a Golden Axe game that good (even if they could) wouldn't likely have the same success.

What really drives me crazy is the number of bad water racing games. Some have waifus, some are marketed to normies.... few have I seen have waves. It's like driving on a solid cement road, except your car phases through the surface of the road a little bit. Wave Race should not be exceptional or notable in any way in the current market - there should be dozens of better games now. Should be.

On sports titles... you know how they're like the anti-vehicle genre? Anti-immersion? Where driving a forklift in a game is just like driving one in real life, but you can't recreate the sensation of running or throwing a ball at all? How so many of them are functionally identical to all the others?

This (free, $0) Slapshot game looks really cool. It's kind of like a hockey foosball table, where you move and turn your little guy around. The physics of it is what really makes it feel refreshing.

[BIL]

All this talk about Yoko Taro waifus reminded me of Hotshot Racing - a racing game in the retro-style of early polygon racers. But not as bad looking.

I think that's as big an obstacle Outrun (and a lot of other old Sega games) have: massive competition. Nobody expected Dragon's Crown to be as big as it was, and making a Golden Axe game that good (even if they could) wouldn't likely have the same success.

I thought Hotshot Racing looked good. But to the last man - and I know a LOT of men >;3 - everyone I trust on arcade racing said it played like shit. 3:>

Well, not shit. But mediocrely. You could say they weren't very...

HOT on it!

NWS

So I left it alone and replayed OutRun 2 on muh eggsbox. 3; Which is fine, I don't expect anybody to make games that good anymore. It'd be nice though!

[Lander]

Ross Scott did a game dungeon on 'OutRun clones' fairly recently; not necessarily a foremost authority on arcade, but a decent grab bag of indie stuff. A few flashes of goodness here and there, but also a lot of games that miss the point.

You could make the case that there's actually naff all competition for real arcade racers at the moment, seeing how all the big titles nowadays have converged around various incarnations of 'realistic' handling model and redefined Arcade to describe the content that exists around it.

Though that would be an idealistic viewpoint standing in defiance of industry-standard genre glommification. Difficult to argue when everyone else is speaking in different terms

[Sima Tuna]

You could make the case that there's actually naff all competition for real arcade racers at the moment, seeing how all the big titles nowadays have converged around various incarnations of 'realistic' handling model and redefined Arcade to describe the content that exists around it.

I would certainly make that case. F-Zero GX was one of the last real arcade racers with a deep pool of single-player content. I tried Hotshot Racing and I tried Horizon Chase Turbo. Neither one impressed me. When I want to play a racing game on my switch, I boot up the Sega Ages Outrun and Virtua Racing.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

A few flashes of goodness here and there, but also a lot of games that miss the point.

Super Hang-On is another great Outrun style sprite scaler that I wish more people would try to emulate. In many ways, it's Outrun with motorcycles.

GP Rider for Game Gear has a "World Tour" mode that's literally just a very high quality port of Super Hang-On complete with hold up at max speed to boost. It's better than Outrun's Game Gear port as the speed feels better, and the time limit, while a bit too forgiving, isn't basically impossible to clear with (Outrun GG will cause you to lose if you aren't flying through the courses, it's way harder than even the arcade version is as you will lose if you're going too slow, let alone if you have even a minor crash).

Rad Racer for the NES is mechanically quite solid, with the hold up to boost being available anytime at 100 km/h and above (up to 255 km/h max). It feels much like Super Hang-On but in a Ferrari. Rad Racer 2 is a lot weaker due to various changes in how the car controls though.

The Commodore 64 has an arcade styled motorcycle racing game called Super Cycle that was quite fun. Controls were a bit more slippery than in Outrun or Super Hang-On due to being analog though.

Generally speaking, I'd say anything that tries to implement a fuel mechanic or a vehicle damage mechanic has kinda missed the point. Slipstream in particular is one of the worst attempts at a clone that I've played, I soured on it a lot since I first tried it; its manual drifting mode is Outrun 2SP but with far slower responsiveness and the inability to brake to control yourself during a drift (which instead now instantly stops the drift, usually resulting in a crash). The slipstream mechanic sucks hard as unlike OR2SP it's not an acceleration and top speed boost, but rather the moment you activate it by filling the meter it slingshots you forward, often uncontrollably. And crashing feels very much like Lotus II RECS where you sort of bounce off things without actually ever crashing, which makes the experience feel floaty, ethereal, and unsatisfying.

[null1024]

Gain Ground on Genesis.
Honestly, I wrote this off years ago as being sluggish and clunky, but it really isn't that bad at all. In fact, it's good.

I'm still going to say that it definitely is a bit sluggish [since it's a single-screen game], and there's a little bit of clunkiness [in particular, determining whether something will hit you or whether you will hit something is a bit rough sometimes, particularly for projectiles that get thrown upwards], but I'm enjoying it way more this time.
Lots of strategy and tense moments, even if there are a few times where I'm left with characters that I'm pretty sure can't actually clear the level, or I make a bad pick at the start of a level.

[Sima Tuna]

Gain Ground is super cool, but I do agree that a movement speed buff would have made the game better. That or a remake that adds true 16:9 and scales movement speed accordingly. I give Gain Ground a lot of credit for originality and an amazing concept.

[BIL]

<333 Gain Ground. Even without M2's other Sega Ages ports (Virtua Racing, OutRun, Shinobi... ), I'd have happily picked up my Switch for the arcade version alone.

The MD port is cool. The smaller resolution (AC uses some crazy personal computer res) changes things up, as expected; but I kinda like the tighter playfield's higher pace. It's a nice alt. version to have around. My favourite feature is the Hard mode - which at first seems anything but, starting you off with every single character, even MUD PUPPY and THE PROFESSOR. The catch is, there are absolutely no POWs to rescue in the field, at any point. So if a valuable soldier gets wounded, and you don't rescue 'em? You won't see 'em later on, they're perma-dead.

This can also lead to some hilarious chain-deaths, where one soldier after another tries and fails to save a comrade, each becoming the new damsel in distress.

The PS2 AGES version sadly pre-dated the serious archival approach pioneered by M2's Space Harrier set, but it actually plays pretty faithfully, IIRC. In any case, SSH's customarily soaring arrangement of the first Epoch's theme is a must-hear.

After getting into SNK's Ikari and Dogosoken, I almost wondered if they were any influence on Gain Ground's team. The punishingly heavy handling, short-ranged shots, and critical terrain-bypassing role of grenades all leapt out; as did the crucial balance of all this applying to the enemies, too. A distinctly calculating style of run/gun, driven by a crystal-clear POV.

Then again, Ikari lifted all those things from Taito's Front Line, so maybe not, haha. At any rate, when it's been a while, I'll fire one of them up, and attempt to rush down an MG nest, all 1337 JUKE JIVE ala Shock Troopers; only for the game to go "AHAHAHA LOL NO" and riddle me. Use yer feckin loaf lads.

[BrianC]

GP Rider for Game Gear has a "World Tour" mode that's literally just a very high quality port of Super Hang-On complete with hold up at max speed to boost. It's better than Outrun's Game Gear port as the speed feels better, and the time limit, while a bit too forgiving, isn't basically impossible to clear with (Outrun GG will cause you to lose if you aren't flying through the courses, it's way harder than even the arcade version is as you will lose if you're going too slow, let alone if you have even a minor crash).

Was something different between the EU or JP versions of the GG Outrun or something off in emulation? I remember it giving me too much time when I played it.

Edit: I'm guessing something was off in emulation since it was a long time ago on an outdated emulator and my recent play of both the JP and EU GG Outrun had a strict timer.

[null1024]

<333 Gain Ground. Even without M2's other Sega Ages ports (Virtua Racing, OutRun, Shinobi... ), I'd have happily picked up my Switch for the arcade version alone.

The MD port is cool. The smaller resolution (AC uses some crazy personal computer res) changes things up, as expected; but I kinda like the tighter playfield's higher pace. It's a nice alt. version to have around. My favourite feature is the Hard mode - which at first seems anything but, starting you off with every single character, even MUD PUPPY and THE PROFESSOR. The catch is, there are absolutely no POWs to rescue in the field, at any point. So if a valuable soldier gets wounded, and you don't rescue 'em? You won't see 'em later on, they're perma-dead.

This can also lead to some hilarious chain-deaths, where one soldier after another tries and fails to save a comrade, each becoming the new damsel in distress.

The PS2 AGES version sadly pre-dated the serious archival approach pioneered by M2's Space Harrier set, but it actually plays pretty faithfully, IIRC. In any case, SSH's customarily soaring arrangement of the first Epoch's theme is a must-hear.

After getting into SNK's Ikari and Dogosoken, I almost wondered if they were any influence on Gain Ground's team. The punishingly heavy handling, short-ranged shots, and critical terrain-bypassing role of grenades all leapt out; as did the crucial balance of all this applying to the enemies, too. A distinctly calculating style of run/gun, driven by a crystal-clear POV.

Then again, Ikari lifted all those things from Taito's Front Line, so maybe not, haha. At any rate, when it's been a while, I'll fire one of them up, and attempt to rush down an MG nest, all 1337 JUKE JIVE ala Shock Troopers; only for the game to go "AHAHAHA LOL NO" and riddle me. Use yer feckin loaf lads.

Haven't tried hard yet. Still, it does feel savage, going into a hail of death and hoping to come out alive with good positioning and better reach... and then you just lose like 5 characters in a row, getting increasingly desperate since like, you really needed those other guys to carry on, and every time you try and save one, nope lmao. Got really bad one run, couldn't even go in

I gave the arcade version a shot and boy, it's pretty. IIRC, it's the same res as the Model 1/2/3.
Enemy fire is much more aggressive and some of these enemy formations are definitely better fleshed out -- fair enough, there's both more room to move around and the game is up to arcade spec. Having that extra certainty with where lobbed shots go is very nice.
...also, enemies generally being one-shot-one-kill at home got me murdered a few times when an enemy continued to exist after I shot it.

I wish those PS2 3D AGES releases weren't quite so no-budget looking. They generally play well enough, but.... eh. The music tends to be cool, and boy, this isn't an exception.
The one exception I can think of is Virtua Racing -- it really should be the best version, and it looks absolutely STUNNING, but the handling is all kinds of screwy.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Gain Ground on Genesis.
Honestly, I wrote this off years ago as being sluggish and clunky, but it really isn't that bad at all. In fact, it's good.

I'm still going to say that it definitely is a bit sluggish [since it's a single-screen game], and there's a little bit of clunkiness [in particular, determining whether something will hit you or whether you will hit something is a bit rough sometimes, particularly for projectiles that get thrown upwards], but I'm enjoying it way more this time.
Lots of strategy and tense moments, even if there are a few times where I'm left with characters that I'm pretty sure can't actually clear the level, or I make a bad pick at the start of a level.

Some enemies do have multiple hit points, so it's not always down to collision detection - although I agree that the elevation shots can be tricky to see when they (or whether they can) connect.

It definitely takes a couple of attempts just to get used to who can do what, and who you can sacrifice on a stage just to see what's out there. I love how people are even left/right handed, allowing you to fire around cover sometimes. You can get stuck but that's part of the strategy for me - don't risk the guys that can fire to a different elevation! Do you clear out the stage or just run everyone to the exit?

The enemy counter is very useful so you can know to expect reinforcements/traps, rather than it just being unfair trial and error.

It's not perfect - you can waste a lot of time cycling through soldiers to find the one you want, the difficulty curve can be a little unbalanced, and the arcade game's default time limit is too short which takes the fun away (extend it to the MD version's for a more balanced experience).

It's worth checking out the SMS version too, it has a boatload of exclusive levels/bosses although it does remove some of the characters (mostly the duplicates that can only fire straight). And also a cool feature where player 1 is dudes and player 2 is girls - no difference in gameplay, just a fun aesthetic and some exclusive character portraits too.

Gain Ground is awesome, there is literally nothing else like it.

[BIL]

I wish those PS2 3D AGES releases weren't quite so no-budget looking. They generally play well enough, but.... eh. The music tends to be cool, and boy, this isn't an exception.
The one exception I can think of is Virtua Racing -- it really should be the best version, and it looks absolutely STUNNING, but the handling is all kinds of screwy.

I can hear the tyre squeal just reading that version's name

[Steven]

I remember something about PC Engine Gain Ground having really good music, but it's been several years since I have played it. Too bad you can barely see anything in the PC Engine version because of the scrolling screen.

[Marc]

Generally speaking, I'd say anything that tries to implement a fuel mechanic or a vehicle damage mechanic has kinda missed the point. Slipstream in particular is one of the worst attempts at a clone that I've played, I soured on it a lot since I first tried it; its manual drifting mode is Outrun 2SP but with far slower responsiveness and the inability to brake to control yourself during a drift (which instead now instantly stops the drift, usually resulting in a crash). The slipstream mechanic sucks hard as unlike OR2SP it's not an acceleration and top speed boost, but rather the moment you activate it by filling the meter it slingshots you forward, often uncontrollably. And crashing feels very much like Lotus II RECS where you sort of bounce off things without actually ever crashing, which makes the experience feel floaty, ethereal, and unsatisfying.

I'm glad it's not just me, I wanted to love Slipstream, but handking is completely uninvolved on Auto, and utter ass on manual.

At least Hotshot Racing mostly get that right. I quite enjoyed it, obnoxious AI aside.

It's sad state of events when - as undeniably brilliant as it is - OutRun is still my go-to arcade racer on Switch.

Sega need to get off their asses and port some of their good stuff. That fantastic X360 Daytona port would be a godsend on Switch.

X360 Sega Rally was also crazily under rated by most.

[BloodHawk]

When it comes to newer arcade racers I have been struggling to find any that hook me as well. Like most others, I have been sticking with OutRun2/C2C, occasionally playing the M2 port of Super Hang-On that's BC with the Series X (part of the Alex Kidd & Co Bundle) which unfortunately got delisted earlier this year.

For OutRun C2C, the PC version is my go-to as it plays at 4K nicely, along with the previously mentioned FXT 2.5 patch I think it could be considered the closest to a complete version of OutRun2/C2C as possible. The only things I believe that are incorrect/missing with it are: A) HUD is stretched for widescreen; and B) The end events of the Volcano erupting and the Space Shuttle taking off are MIA. Highly recommend as it's considered abandonware now so it's not too hard to find.

Speaking of OutRun, 11 years late to the party, but I just noticed the "Cannonball" wrapper that plays the original arcade version with a lot of QoL improvements. I haven't given it a lot of time yet, but it seems to work great. I was impressed with the latest Sega Ages version on Switch but didn't realize there was already a comparable fan-made mod released years earlier.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Was something different between the EU or JP versions of the GG Outrun or something off in emulation? I remember it giving me too much time when I played it.

As far as I know GG Outrun uses the same rom for all regions. It's just balanced to be maddeningly hard.

Outrun's Commodore 64 port suffers from an issue though, where when playing the NTSC version you receive WAY less bonus time at checkpoints than intended for some reason, meaning even without crashes you don't even have enough time to reach the 5th stage in some cases. The PAL version gives you a ton of generous bonus time though, and is the only way to really make it playable. The music is really good at least, some of the best renditions of Splash Wave and Magical Sound Shower in any version of Outrun!

[Steven]

Speaking of PAL Out Run, obligatory horrifying Amiga Out Run intro: https://youtu.be/c7Ppx-M4IoA?si=qv2lpymI_8GD0hzZ

Spoiler

OOOOOOOOOOOUUUUT RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN~~~!!!

[BrianC]

As far as I know GG Outrun uses the same rom for all regions. It's just balanced to be maddeningly hard.

Must have been an emulation issue since the GG Outrun rom definitely gave me too much time under an outdated emulator (Meka?). To the point that the time had letters in it after a checkpoint. This doesn't happen in more recent emulators or actual hardware.

[BIL]

Speaking of PAL Out Run, obligatory horrifying Amiga Out Run intro: https://youtu.be/c7Ppx-M4IoA?si=qv2lpymI_8GD0hzZ

Spoiler

OOOOOOOOOOOUUUUT RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN~~~!!!

This time I know to not even click that horrid thing. >_<

[Steven]

*laughs maniacally*

[Marc]

That fucking loading screen conned me into buying the port. Its at least decently drawn, so when it's featured on the back of the box as an 'in game screenshot'......

[TransatlanticFoe]

Outrun the, erm, horror movie turned biblical epic turned broken industrial record? It least it gives you some warning by clearly stating "US Gold" at the beginning

[Marc]

About to dip into the first episode of Doom 1 that's be recreated in Quake. Looks cool.

[Lander]

I've been playing The Black Parade - a cracking new Thief mod that rivals the best content in the series - and enjoying it so much that I made a thread about it.

In retrospect, doing that while the forum was being DDOSed was probably unwise, but hey ho!

[Marc]

Monty fucking Mole of all things. The C64 version is arse. The Speccy is a neat Manic Miner rip.

Dipped into Mystic Warriors, first impressions ate positive to say the least.

Treated myself to Dusk, looking forward to starting that.

Still mopping up the side quests on Yakuza Gaiden, will start the final chapter properly shortly.

[Sima Tuna]

Cassette Beasts. It's aight so far. Still not changing my opinion that Coromon is the best pokemon clone of the lot. DS-era poggermans was the best era for gameplay and Coromon is just that with some extra shit and respect for the player (multiple save slots + custom options for multiple playthroughs.) With another hundo or so Coromon added in paid DLC, I'd be comfortable ranking it close to Heartgold/Soulsilver/Platinum. AS good? Eh, probably not. But close enough, and a damn sight better than Pokermins past gen 6.

Cassette Beasts has some of the same flaws as Coromon tbh. Gen 1 of pokemon had 150 beasts. Coromon has around 110, I think. CB is like 120 without DLC. Maybe 130 with? Kinda rough to be debuting your monster tamer with a significant chunk fewer critters than pokemon GEN ONE. I know they're better animated and shit, but still, bro. Fusions are cool but like, I barely use them. Feels like some typings only have maybe 1 or 2 choices if you want to use that type at all. Even in Gen 1 pokemon, there were a shitload of type options for MOST types. Not all. Definitely there were typings that got short-changed hard in gen 1. But still, a lot of the common typings gave you a ton of freedom in team-building as early as Gen 1. Cassette Beasts is right on that line with Coromon, where I think the balance is just a little too small. Add in some more, guys!

This is a "problem" that they can easily correct with a second game. Coromon and CB both have pretty fun gameplay. I really like the type interactions in Cassette Beasts. Coromon is a little closer to pokemon, while CB is a bit of its own thing. I didn't think I'd like forced 2 vs 2 battles in CB, but I came around. It's neat that your partner has their own creature, and they keep a creature with them when they leave your party. You can give them a different one to hold (essentially stealing their starter!) But they're going to leave with one of the beasts in your party. So then that becomes its own strategic element when swapping partners.

[sunnshiner]

I got Grip: Combat Racing in the GOG sale and what a complete pile of arse. The training level is fun and boded well but going into the first race it turned out to be a frustrating, badly designed, rubber-bandy, floaty dogshitfest. It was only £3.49 but I still feel fucking robbed. Refund please.