Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[cicada88]

Does anyone have some good recommendations for non broadcast monitor CRT TVs for retro gaming?

I am currently on the lookout for a Sony PVM / Sony BVM / NEC XM, but I would like to know some other models to be on the lookout for.

Are there any CRT TVs in the US that accept RGB? What are some of the top models from the 1980s / early 1990s? Even if these aren't the best picture quality compared to later ones, the case design and curved tubes feel more "authentic" to retro gaming, so I would like to add one of the better ones to my arsenal.

[Xan]

Commodore 1084 (and similar monitors) would be the common recommendation. I've also heard about the RCA Dimensia having SCART input.

[NightSprinter]

I happen to own a Dimensia myself, but unfortunately I have not been able to successfully get that socket to accept RGB input. Either it will only take RGBI input (think the output from a Commodore 128's 80-column mode), or isn't wired up correctly for RGB.

[Ed Oscuro]

I asked a while ago, but didn't get any answer. Can anybody give photos or a general summary of the internal construction of BVMs or Ikegami monitors (any and all mentioned are appreciated)? I've already made comments about the PVM and would like to compare.

[Bancho]

Well I picked this Monitor up today. Its a JVC BM-H2000PN-K. It's 20" and is quite deep in size, deeper than a PVM. The screen is a lot more curved also than a PVM. It's 750 lines.

So I won this thing for 99p! It was listed for spares and repair but the seller told me it powered on, just had no means to test it. I got it home, fired it up and it works no problem. I only have a Wii with component leads at the moment to test but i was pleasantly surprised by the PQ. The geometry is spot on with not distortion of the picture. It just needs the position and size adjusting which strangely can only be performed in RGB mode! I have a 20" PVM which has crap geometry and soft focus and this thing is pin sharp.

I'm well pleased for 99p! Has anyone had any experience with this monitor?

Here are some pics I took as they tell the story. The monitor has had no adjustment made geo wise as nothing can be done in component mode.

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[Ed Oscuro]

quite deep in size, deeper than a PVM.

According to this that's 510mm, and a PVM 20L5 is about 18 inches front to back * 2.54 = nearly 46 centimeters, so maybe 5 extra inches. I kinda doubt that the tube has a much lower deflection angle than the 20L5's, which seems to be maybe 90 degrees, not really short. I wonder what the extra space goes for, if anything.

Interesting thing there, definitely worth it at the price!

[cicada88]

I like the style of that CRT Bancho. PQ looks amazing too from those pics.

[CMcK]

I have the same JVC monitor and I have been very impressed with it. I found there was little adjustment required for a cracking image. I would like to get a hold of the manual for it but just cannot seem to find it anywhere.
I would rate this display as highly as my Ikegami broadcast monitor.

[Rogue_element]

Fudoh / Guys, firstly a quick hi. I've been lurking on the site and specifically on this thread for a fair few months now, and because of the wealth of info I've gleaned from it I'm now the proud owner of 2 x pvm 20l4s and 2 x pvm 20m2e's. I use them for mame/ps2/xbox/amiga /c64 /dc/snes and wii. I've got an opportunity to buy a widescreen pvm 20s1we for about £25.00 here in the uk. I'm interested in this as I would really like to play the widescreen compatible ps2 and xbox games on a pvm, and obviously this monitor fits the bill. Ideally I would have liked to get the bvm-d24e1-we for widescreen goodness, but the prices of these things are obscene (one on uk eBay now for £2400!! ). My question is, the 20s1we is only 300 lines . . Correct me if I'm wrong?. Does this mean the picture will be pretty poor?. Bearing in mind I only want to use this monitor for 16:9 ps2 and xbox games. Thanks for any advice

[Bancho]

I have the same JVC monitor and I have been very impressed with it. I found there was little adjustment required for a cracking image. I would like to get a hold of the manual for it but just cannot seem to find it anywhere..

CMcK i think i have found the service manual for the monitor. It states its for the BM-1400PN, but when you open it up it lists the BM-2000PN also so i think its relevant for our monitor.

I've uploaded it to my google drive. You can find it here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3ZFcM ... sp=sharing

Hope its of some help.

[CMcK]

I asked a while ago, but didn't get any answer. Can anybody give photos or a general summary of the internal construction of BVMs or Ikegami monitors (any and all mentioned are appreciated)? I've already made comments about the PVM and would like to compare.

I have some photos of the internals of my Ikegami monitor. I will post them when I find them. It's a heavy monitor with easy to remove sides and top plate. The tube is manufactured by Matsushita.

The JVC BM is also heavy and a little bit deeper than the Ikegami IIRC. I haven't had any reason to open it up yet but will do to get some photos.

[CMcK]

I have the same JVC monitor and I have been very impressed with it. I found there was little adjustment required for a cracking image. I would like to get a hold of the manual for it but just cannot seem to find it anywhere..

CMcK i think i have found the service manual for the monitor. It states its for the BM-1400PN, but when you open it up it lists the BM-2000PN also so i think its relevant for our monitor.

I've uploaded it to my google drive. You can find it here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3ZFcM ... sp=sharing

Hope its of some help.

Thanks for that. I'm sure it will come in handy.

[Ed Oscuro]

I asked a while ago, but didn't get any answer. Can anybody give photos or a general summary of the internal construction of BVMs or Ikegami monitors (any and all mentioned are appreciated)? I've already made comments about the PVM and would like to compare.

I have some photos of the internals of my Ikegami monitor. I will post them when I find them. It's a heavy monitor with easy to remove sides and top plate. The tube is manufactured by Matsushita.

The JVC BM is also heavy and a little bit deeper than the Ikegami IIRC. I haven't had any reason to open it up yet but will do to get some photos.

Thanks so much!

Suppose I should share some of the PVM if somebody wants them, as well.

[niall]

I asked a while ago, but didn't get any answer. Can anybody give photos or a general summary of the internal construction of BVMs or Ikegami monitors (any and all mentioned are appreciated)? I've already made comments about the PVM and would like to compare.

I'll open these BVM-D20F1A and BVM-20F1E tomorrow and take pics. The Ds are 2010 models with 40-50k hours and the others are 2000 models with about 200k on them (and need new flybacks apparently).

[Taiyaki]

How do the Matsushita crt's in the Ikegami compare to Sony's in BVM and PVM's?

[22point8]

I thought Ikegami used Toshiba tubes and sony components. I think all three companies were owned by the same zaibatsu.

[cicada88]

Do most Sony flat CRTs have component input that will work well for RGB to component on older consoles?

I'm looking for a smaller 17-25" CRT for cheap or free locally on craig's list and I need something to hold me over until I can find a broadcast monitor locally.

[CMcK]

I thought Ikegami used Toshiba tubes and sony components. I think all three companies were owned by the same zaibatsu.

Seems like Ikegagmi are a big company in the realm of CCTV and TV production. I don't think it's likely all the above companies are funded by the same zaibatsu.

[Bancho]

CMcK i managed to enter the service menu using that manual, and adjust the H and V size and shift. Picture is pretty much perfect now! It is such a great monitor.

[bobrocks95]

Do most Sony flat CRTs have component input that will work well for RGB to component on older consoles?

I'm looking for a smaller 17-25" CRT for cheap or free locally on craig's list and I need something to hold me over until I can find a broadcast monitor locally.

I've never seen a flat consumer Trinitron that didn't have component inputs. I doubt any of them lack it.

[Xan]

You are clearly not familiar with European models then

4:3 ED CRT TVs were basically nonexistant here, so naturally there was no need for Component inputs at all until HD became mainstream. 4:3 TVs all have SCART over here, with an additional Composite input sometimes... and likewise I'm pretty sure lots of 480i models in the US only had Composite, or S-Video if lucky.

[bobrocks95]

You are clearly not familiar with European models then

4:3 ED CRT TVs were basically nonexistant here, so naturally there was no need for Component inputs at all until HD became mainstream. 4:3 TVs all have SCART over here, with an additional Composite input sometimes... and likewise I'm pretty sure lots of 480i models in the US only had Composite, or S-Video if lucky.

I assumed US since I didn't know otherwise. Didn't figure he would mention a SCART to component converter if he was in Europe where SCART was actually a thing.

And still every flat (non-curved) Trinitron I've seen has component. Perhaps small or very old ones (first introduced in '98 according to Wikipedia) don't have component but from what I've seen on the flat screens I'd say it's difficult to find a set that doesn't.

[cicada88]

I assumed US since I didn't know otherwise. Didn't figure he would mention a SCART to component converter if he was in Europe where SCART was actually a thing.

Yes, US based here. I wish we had easy SCART options here.

Anyway, I did a little research and found a few desirable Sony SD Flat TVs.

Sony KV-xxFV300 (20”, 24”, 27”, 32”, 36”)
Sony KV-xxFV310 (27”, 32”, 36”)

Sony KV-xxFS120 (20", 24", 27", 32", 36")
Sony KV-xxFS100 (13", 24", 27", 32", 36")

the xx in the model # is replaced by the screen size of the specific TV.

Also not sure if there is a 20" FS100, it wasn't listed on the Wikipedia list of FD Trinitrons that I found.

The 310 is supposed to be the absolute best one, but very close to the 300. It also only comes in the larger sizes, so if you want smaller you need to step down.

The 13" KV-13FS100 seems to be the best small model. It would be nice to have a couple of those on ice as they would be really easy to store and move around.

[Xan]

Yes, US based here. I wish we had easy SCART options here.

OTOH you have 4:3 EDTVs and no PAL port issues, so it more than evens out...

[Ed Oscuro]

The 13" KV-13FS100 seems to be the best small model. It would be nice to have a couple of those on ice as they would be really easy to store and move around.

At that size, I would forget about it and find a real PVM/BVM in that size. Those should be relatively easy and cheap to source semi-locally (even using eBay). The semi-rugged form factor would make moving them even easier and safer.

More to the point, I have seen a pretty good variety of early-mid '00s TVs but they tend to be 27" and up. Finding them at sizes much below that is probably unlikely.

That said, one should search exhaustively locally before turning to Craigslist, and search Craigslist before turning to eBay. The sub-$15 prices I'm seeing on a variety of decent flatscreen Trinitrons (none Wega, but still decent flat models) should count for a lot.

I'll open these BVM-D20F1A and BVM-20F1E tomorrow and take pics. The Ds are 2010 models with 40-50k hours and the others are 2000 models with about 200k on them (and need new flybacks apparently).

Looking forward to the pics. However, I didn't know Sony was still making BVM-D series (or any CRT) as late as 2010. Additionally, 40K hours starting in 2010 would mean that they are still running 24/7 at the old job, if my simple calculation is correct...those must be a bit older than that, at least.

[Xan]

Don't know how much truth there is to it, but Wikipedia says this:

Production in Singapore finally ended in March 2008, only months after ending production of their rear-projection systems.[18] Two lines of the factory were later brought back online to supply the professional market.

[niall]

Perhaps these were some of the last, and parts were moving between an older pool to the newer 2010 pool, or these were 2007/2008 that went back for repair? Just going by the badge on front, but you're right Ed those numbers don't add up. These were from a local TV station so 24x7 is more likely than not. Hopefully there are dates on internal components, haven't had time to crack them yet - barely even done a first pass calibration and test play...

The increase in lines on the F apertures is quite incredible to see up close, compared to a consumer KV-2900 which closely resembles the PVM-2950 in its external moulding - square handles. I'm even more impressed by the KV-2900 now, seeing them side by side. Now I want more PVMs. D'oh!

[bobrocks95]

I assumed US since I didn't know otherwise. Didn't figure he would mention a SCART to component converter if he was in Europe where SCART was actually a thing.

Yes, US based here. I wish we had easy SCART options here.

Anyway, I did a little research and found a few desirable Sony SD Flat TVs.

Sony KV-xxFV300 (20”, 24”, 27”, 32”, 36”)
Sony KV-xxFV310 (27”, 32”, 36”)

Sony KV-xxFS120 (20", 24", 27", 32", 36")
Sony KV-xxFS100 (13", 24", 27", 32", 36")

the xx in the model # is replaced by the screen size of the specific TV.

Also not sure if there is a 20" FS100, it wasn't listed on the Wikipedia list of FD Trinitrons that I found.

The 310 is supposed to be the absolute best one, but very close to the 300. It also only comes in the larger sizes, so if you want smaller you need to step down.

The 13" KV-13FS100 seems to be the best small model. It would be nice to have a couple of those on ice as they would be really easy to store and move around.

The 310 just adds a high voltage regulator over the 300, which prevents blooming on whites and other bright colors. If you want smaller sizes though you'll have to go with the 300.

That said, good luck finding either unless you live in or near a very large city. If this is just a midpoint before a PVM/BVM you should probably just get whatever consumer set you can find and spend your energy searching for the professional display.

[nyder]

CMcK i managed to enter the service menu using that manual, and adjust the H and V size and shift. Picture is pretty much perfect now! It is such a great monitor.

I love that JVC an the price you paid? Amazing.

Only one around here is up for $1200 lol

Only thing about super curved displays is I don't like rating them.

[cicada88]

The 310 just adds a high voltage regulator over the 300, which prevents blooming on whites and other bright colors. If you want smaller sizes though you'll have to go with the 300.

That said, good luck finding either unless you live in or near a very large city. If this is just a midpoint before a PVM/BVM you should probably just get whatever consumer set you can find and spend your energy searching for the professional display.

Gotta love Craig's List. I found and picked up a 27" FV310 within 24 hours for $20.



Also, I do plan to keep looking for PVM / BVM but it's nice to have a bigger, nice consumer set too.

Anyone, have some ideas for some general settings for this TV? I restored it to factory settings & put it into Movie mode but I have no test disc or even a stand alone DVD player to hook up anyway.