Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, check out the Ikegami TM20-90R on eBay.

I was torn about mentioning it...it seems like a really decent price. I think I want HD though so I'll concede it for now (but once you see the prices people want for the HD sets, well...)

Fudoh mentioned, some time back, that Lawfer got an Ikegami of some sort. You might try looking him up for info, though he probably had a different set entirely.

[APE992]

I've got a Sony PVM-1954Q that has oversatured colors on screen. Whatever the issue is it doesn't occur with my spare 13" model. Here is what's going on:

http://imgur.com/ExmxRlp - Lowest contrast setting

http://imgur.com/LzT1amM - normal contrast setting (where the knob is stopped by mechanical influence)


The cables are fine, the console is fine. I can't find a service manual and inside I only see one POT that I'm not screwing with until I know what it's for. Anyone have any resources?

[Zombisaurus]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

I'm interested in this monitor for gamecube/ps2 display, but would love something this quality for my 240p systems too.

I am going to check out the BVM d20 in a day or two!

[Fudoh]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

sure it does.

[Lawfer]

I'm interested in this monitor for gamecube/ps2 display, but would love something this quality for my 240p systems too.

240p, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i

Dunno if it works properly with Euro stuff like 288p, 576i or 720p50.

Fudoh I was wondering, if a monitor supports 576i, does that mean that for sure it DOES support 288p?

[Fudoh]

usually yes. All the PVM/BVM sets support 288p as well.

[Lawfer]

usually yes. All the PVM/BVM sets support 288p as well.

Thanks.

[Hatirus]

Sorry, I've been out since world cup and hasn't checked the forum. Soon (today or tomorrow) I'll be posting pics from my 480p plasma with some consoles.

Which games would you like too see on my plasma on:

Wii
Dreamcast
Original Xbox


PS2 and Gamecube I just have a few games, so I'll use what I have.


cheers

[Zombisaurus]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

sure it does.

Thanks! I assumed so, but it's manual does not list anything lower than 480 as compatible.

[Lawfer]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

sure it does.

Thanks! I assumed so, but it's manual does not list anything lower than 480 as compatible.

They usually dont, because I think its because it should be assumed that if 480i is compatible, 240p should naturally be as well.

[nyder]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

sure it does.

I just picked up a 20l5, is this the highest end CRT PVM available?

Also, is the BVM D20f1u unique in supporting 480P, do they all support it?

Thanks,

Nyd

[Lawfer]

Any idea if a BVM D20f1u can support 240p / 15khz? Like from an Snes or a neo geo for example?

sure it does.

I just picked up a 20l5, is this the highest end CRT PVM available?

Also, is the BVM D20f1u unique in supporting 480P, do they all support it?

Thanks,

Nyd

BVM-D and BVM-A all support 480p.

Hmm, check out the Ikegami TM20-90R on eBay.

I was torn about mentioning it...it seems like a really decent price. I think I want HD though so I'll concede it for now (but once you see the prices people want for the HD sets, well...)

That Ikegami TM20-90R has been on ebay since early 2013, if not more. It doesnt look like you can know the operating time on Ikegami monitors.

I dunno of any 4:3 consoles where HD would be useful, aside from Soul Calibur 2 on Xbox (this game does 720p in 4:3). Playstation 3, Xbox 360, Playstation 4, Xbox One, PS Vita TV and Wii U all do 16:9.

Or by HD are you talking about those 24" and 32" BVMs?

Fudoh mentioned, some time back, that Lawfer got an Ikegami of some sort. You might try looking him up for info, though he probably had a different set entirely.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48251

[Zombisaurus]

Does $850 for a BVM D20f1u with under 15k hours (2005) sound fair? I'm trying to haggle this guy down.

[kamiboy]

Sounds pretty good to me. The D's always go for more and the low hours are a plus.

[Lawfer]

Does $850 for a BVM D20f1u with under 15k hours (2005) sound fair? I'm trying to haggle this guy down.

Is it in good shape? If so then yes, 15,000 hours is good and 2005 is not the best but it could be worst.

[Ed Oscuro]

I can't fully check out those images, but from what I saw of the first one, they look too blurry and grainy to be much use.

What would really be interesting would be some information on a few key points:
1.) What Ikegami did you get?
2.) What is the internal construction like? (Surprisingly important.) Looking for details on strength and accessibility of parts. The TM20-17R seems excellently constructed. I'm guessing, based on looking at chassis manuals, that even with new chips the HD sets all tend to have lots of boards: The PVM 20L5 has at least five PCBs, while the sd-only kv27fs120 has only two major boards. The KV27FV310 has five boards, again. The HD Ikegamis probably have more boards, while the TM20-17R has two (that I can see).
3.) And since I can't see all the pics yet, how do the images rate overall? (And some details, like whether it is aperture grille or shadow mask, would be cool too, though I expected it was aperture grille.)

My current thinking is that I might look into getting a nice SD set for the 20" size, with a minimum of parts inside, and a larger set for HD stuff, and it seems that unless BVM A series start popping up that I'm restricted to the D series (by cost if nothing else).

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, if somebody could quickly run this past me again: Are there any big differences for game compatibility (including HD resolutions) between BVMs in the 20F, 20G, D20 and A20 series? This choice may come down to production dates, so those would be good info too.

[thebeautifulones]

Does anyone else see these vertical bars at the right and left sides of their screen, and bright areas at the edges, when they play NES? They show up for me when the background is black and the rest of the screen is pretty sparse. They're visible on all three of my PVMs (20l5, 20l2, 14l2), and on my consumer Trinitron--though not as obvious, and not something I noticed until I started using a PVM.

They're easy to spot at the end of 1-1 in Mario 3 (vertical bars are on the right side of the picture, and a hot spot on the far right). Connected via composite:


I've also tested with two different front loaders and different cables with the same result. The lines bright spots and bright bars are static when the screen's static.

Here's a shot of the left side of the screen:

[Skips]

Does anyone else see these vertical bars at the right and left sides of their screen, and bright areas at the edges, when they play NES? They show up for me when the background is black and the rest of the screen is pretty sparse. They're visible on all three of my PVMs (20l5, 20l2, 14l2), and on my consumer Trinitron--though not as obvious, and not something I noticed until I started using a PVM.

They're easy to spot at the end of 1-1 in Mario 3 (vertical bars are on the right side of the picture, and a hot spot on the far right). Connected via composite:


I've also tested with two different front loaders and different cables with the same result. The lines bright spots and bright bars are static when the screen's static.

Here's a shot of the left side of the screen:

This is something with the NES, even the PC10 PPU would do this. You need to reduce the horizontal size until its not visible. I've noticed this on the BVM-20F1U, PVM-20L5, and the XM-29 if the horizontal size is set high enough. On my 20L5 I usually only have to knock the H-Size down by 4-5 points for them to disappear.

[thebeautifulones]

Thanks! I'm going to try that now.

I wonder what causes it. Do you know if it happens with an nesrgb?

It worked, but I need to have this much showing on either side, at least on my 20L2:


Is the issue caused by the NES outputting so much of its signal to what is typically overscan area? ie. the turquoise bars in Mario 3?

[nyder]

Found a source for pvm 20l5's in vancouver BC, anyone in this area interested? I picked one up and love it!! Blows away my 2530 an 1354q.

Still want bvm or xm29. This is addictive.

Nyd

[Skips]

Thanks! I'm going to try that now.

I wonder what causes it. Do you know if it happens with an nesrgb?

It worked, but I need to have this much showing on either side, at least on my 20L2:


Is the issue caused by the NES outputting so much of its signal to what is typically overscan area? ie. the turquoise bars in Mario 3?

I'm honestly not sure what causes it. It does it with all models of the NES/Famicom and with both types of RGB mods.

[andy251203]

Also, if somebody could quickly run this past me again: Are there any big differences for game compatibility (including HD resolutions) between BVMs in the 20F, 20G, D20 and A20 series? This choice may come down to production dates, so those would be good info too.

The E/F/G after BVM-20 refers to the quality of the CRT. E=1000 lines, F=900 lines, G=800 lines ("HR Trinitron" PVMs all use the 800 line tubes)

The BVM-D and BVM-A series are "multiformat" and support 480i, 480p, 1080i and 720p. The D series is backwards compatible with the non-HD BVM-20XXX input cards and BKM-10R control unit.

So in a nutshell The BVM-20F1U and the BVM-D20F1U are the same exact CRT, but the D20 does HD.

The BVM-A series uses a newer ethernet based control unit and all new input cards. The BVM-A series also lacks a built in RGB input. Most BVM-A's come with an HD-SDI input card only installed because that's what people use in production. Don't get these because they are too new and too expensive. Just tracking down an analog input card can be difficult and expensive.

I own both a D20F1U and a D24E1WU. The 20 is better suited for 4:3 480i and 480p, while the 24 is better for 16:9 720p and 1080i. (This should come as no surprise.) Viewing 720p or 1080i content on the 20" is like looking at a 1600x1200 image on a 19" computer monitor. The pixels start to look blurry because they are so small. On the flipside, 480i and 480p content on the 24" almost looks stretched because the resolution of the tube is "too" good for such a low resolution image.

Fun fact: the CRT used in the BVM-D24E1WU is the exact same one used in the GDM-FW900 computer monitor.

[Fudoh]

Fun fact: the CRT used in the BVM-D24E1WU is the exact same one used in the GDM-FW900 computer monitor.

interesting, didn't know that! The tube inside the D20 and the non-D 20" models is identical as well. Just a different chassis.

[opt2not]

Found a source for pvm 20l5's in vancouver BC, anyone in this area interested? I picked one up and love it!! Blows away my 2530 an 1354q.

Still want bvm or xm29. This is addictive.

Nyd

Not if you're charging $600:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/v ... 09521.html

[nyder]

Found a source for pvm 20l5's in vancouver BC, anyone in this area interested? I picked one up and love it!! Blows away my 2530 an 1354q.

Still want bvm or xm29. This is addictive.

Nyd

Not if you're charging $600:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/v ... 09521.html

I'm not charging anything, especially not to other board members.

I paid far less than that for mine.

Nyd

[opt2not]

I'm not charging anything, especially not to other board members.

I paid far less than that for mine.

Nyd

Ah I see, I assumed this was your ad. So how much did you pay for yours?

I have been satisfied with my 2030, I bought my 2030 for $40 a couple years ago, but I might consider getting another 20" to replace my 14".

[nyder]

I'm not charging anything, especially not to other board members.

I paid far less than that for mine.

Nyd

Ah I see, I assumed this was your ad. So how much did you pay for yours?

I have been satisfied with my 2030, I bought my 2030 for $40 a couple years ago, but I might consider getting another 20" to replace my 14".

I got my PVM 2530 for free, but this L5 is something else.
I can't even imagine how good a 900 line BVM looks, I'm in awe of this things picture over RGB.

When I asked how much he wanted for it he said he would have to go check and came back with a crazy price of $700/$800, I think he went and looked on Ebay on his phone and just saw buy it now prices or something.

Nyd

[Ed Oscuro]

The BVM-A series uses a newer ethernet based control unit and all new input cards. The BVM-A series also lacks a built in RGB input. Most BVM-A's come with an HD-SDI input card only installed because that's what people use in production. Don't get these because they are too new and too expensive. Just tracking down an analog input card can be difficult and expensive.

I need to find a service manual and have a look at the number of boards - if it's substantially less (doubt it) the A could be a better choice, but likely it's the same.

I own both a D20F1U and a D24E1WU. The 20 is better suited for 4:3 480i and 480p, while the 24 is better for 16:9 720p and 1080i. (This should come as no surprise.) Viewing 720p or 1080i content on the 20" is like looking at a 1600x1200 image on a 19" computer monitor. The pixels start to look blurry because they are so small. On the flipside, 480i and 480p content on the 24" almost looks stretched because the resolution of the tube is "too" good for such a low resolution image.

My problem with a 20" for regular console 480p gaming (let alone 16:9 content) is that the 20" is too small for my liking. 27" or so is about the sweet spot for me. So I find myself wondering how the D32 fares in that regard. For progressive input, the scanline considerations of e.g. 240p gaming wouldn't matter much (I'm just trying to figure out how I'd arrange three sets for gaming, heh).

[Fudoh]

So I find myself wondering how the D32 fares in that regard.

the best CRT there is, what's the wonder ? If you can get one locally, can afford it, don't mind the 70cm in depth and the 240 lbs in weight, there are no alternatives.