GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[dcharlie]

del/edit : ah - you know what ? fuck it.

I will do what i promised months back and just let this all wash over me.

We aren't going to agree on this, so you guys enjoy your gaming.

[Mischief Maker]

Now this is what I really hate about the anti-GG crowd: the intellectual laziness. Since when did "just because!" become an acceptable argument for leftists? I swear, the popular left bit a poison apple when it got Glenn Beck kicked off Fox. Going after the entertainment industry is so much easier and gets much faster results than fighting against ongoing efforts to actively curb the rights of women:

[evil_ash_xero]

I only want to point out, that most GGs identify themselves as liberal. So, it's not a right wing thing. Although, there are certainly right-wingers in there.
I'm a life long Democrat, and I would never support a "hate group".

I don't know who GG would be hating, other than SJWs.
SJWs are FAR Left. Progressives. Those are the people that GG have a problem with. Not normal Liberals.

And, just another taste of their "fairness". http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... niversity/

You tell me who's the hate group?

[MathU]

I stopped using the label of liberal for myself a while back now because it means so many different things depending on where you live that it's sometimes difficult to carry on conversations with people outside of America. I very much consider myself a progressive and there are very few views on which I find myself agreeing when it comes to American conservatives. I'm sure I'll reluctantly vote for Hillary next election if she wins the Democratic primary, even though I still have a fresh memory of her appalling Family Entertainment Protection Act. Not only that, but I have always considered myself a feminist too, at least in the most superficial sense of the term. And I fully support this consumer revolt. I'm sick and tired of feeling like I'm being lied to and feeling unable to trust what I'm reading when it comes to video game journalism.

If it wasn't this scandal with some trashy hipster dev sleeping around with some trashy Kotaku reporter for undisclosed positive press it would have been some other catalyst at some point. The dissatisfaction with the video game press has been brewing for quite a long time now. And the shameless cowards who took to attacking their core audience when confronted over their own lack of ethical standards would have reacted all the same. That their defense mechanism this time has happened to be trying to conflate game enthusiasts with misogyny and hatred and right-wing politics has simply been an unfortunate outcome that's been setting the public perception of video games backwards. And everyone in the mainstream media who simply parroted the narrative that this revolt is nothing but some mustache-twirling, far-right, organized harassment hate group without doing a shred of research into our side of the issue should be equally ashamed of themselves. I honestly have never believed much in left-wing media bias until last year, but NPR and PBS, news sources I've always respected for having a standard of professionalism in well-researched neutral reporting, really let me down. I couldn't even listen to Science Friday anymore for some time without feeling disgusted.

[system11]

Progressive is a garbage label anyway, mostly used as a tool to wave in peoples faces with a smug punchable smile. There are many policy elements from left and right thinking people which qualify as 'progressive', but the label is almost entirely (ab)used by SJWs and some parts of the 'left' as a way of lording over everyone else just how progressive they are, and that anyone who disagrees with them is by definition regressive and therefore evil, short sighted, naive or a baby boiling right wing extremist.

I really fucking hate it.

An aside: I also took much comfort in reading about various people in the SJWGG clusterfuck arena, and Anita was the only person I'd even heard of.

[Doctor Butler]

Spoiler

We have a thread for this already. Results:

* Ethics in journalism never existed. For games, they're employed by Activision and EA. Just like TV news [1] is employed by its sponsors. Even PBS has to disclose its Koch and Bank backers.

* People like Thunderfoot who sit in the dark and stew for years about women wanting more for themselves are identical to the people who stew in the dark about Obama being president/Al Sharpton being a person that exists, or about immigrants from Mexico coming in and inflicting our country with economic stimulus and prosperity. Like protesting refugee children is the biggest, most pressing danger. With all the problems in the world, let's get angry about imaginary strangers trying to make their lives slightly better.

* Sure it blows a hypothetical girlfriend is physically capable of cheating on a person. Life is horrible, that's why God invented No Contact and alcohol.


[1] It's kind of funny that nothing on TV is real. "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" applies to TV News Actors, too.

It's so weird to be labeled misogynist, for just liking sexy looking girls in games.

Nobody's saying you're hitler for liking giant floating titties. They're just asking for designers to be a little less lazy.

Do you have any idea how many women prefer Tifa over Aeris? There's a reason for this. Tifa's a boobmonster that shoots dolphins out of her fists and beats the shit out of everything. Aeris is a submissive wilted flower staff chick that sinks into the background scenery. Practically nobody wants to be Aeris.

I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.

The ocean's not big enough for that!

Right on the money.

[evil_ash_xero]

An aside: I also took much comfort in reading about various people in the SJWGG clusterfuck arena, and Anita was the only person I'd even heard of.

Anita really didn't have anything to do with GG. It makes sense that she has merged into it though.

She had her "Tropes Vs. Women" videos. Which, as expected, gamers got all riled up about. And I don't think it's about her being a woman. If there was a video series called "Violence in Games needs to be stopped", and it was by a man, it would probably have a similar backlash. But they would use different language, obviously.

The people that sent her threats were idiots. But they did the same to Jack Thompson too. She just really milked it for all it was worth, made a LOT more money that she was asking for...and didn't finish her vids.
And now she has sort of tied herself to GG, so she can get more $$$. Don't get me wrong, it does make sense that she would join the aGG movement. But it didn't start with her at all.
It started with journalists. Most people say it's about "ethics in journalism", and I don't think this is totally honest. It may be for some, but for me it's about censorship, blacklisting, shaming, and pushing an SJW agenda, that most of the audience doesn't want to hear.
Of course, the journalists are corrupt as hell.

I've actually grown so disheartened by the whole thing. I mean, we are winning. Genuinely. Most of the people who wrote those "Gamers are Dead" articles are gone. Lots of sites have shut up about it. It's great.
But the media...dear god, the media. They are just relentless. Gamers get demonized, about every decade, but we usually have SOMEONE to defend us. We have some people now, but they get NO air time on TV. So, the majority of the public just sees us as some shadowy organization that hates women.
I really get tired of hearing it. I'll probably take a break.

But just to show the...lunacy, of how the leftist media is portraying GG. Look at this.
And I really get so offended being said I'm in a hate movement...and now a terrorist movement. Jesus Christ.

I'm just a gamer. And it's funny, because I don't even play a lot of the games that people are attacking. Never liked Grand Theft Auto, for instance. It's just the point of it.

[Skykid]

"It's time for us to face up to our persistent double standard on what constitutes a terrorist act"

You could also apply this to American government quite comfortably.

[Bananamatic]

speaking of terrorist acts

honestly i wouldn't even care at this point, these people get butthurt over fitness ads

at some point everyone will get tired of that shit and tell them to fuck off like Protein World here did

[Ed Oscuro]

Progressive is a garbage label anyway

Progressivism never was about being a slacktivist - at least not classic progressivism from the early to mid 20th century. They could actually point to things they thought worth doing: Civil Rights, jobs, public health insurance, reigning in incentives to do bad things, "getting government off the backs of the people." It'd be sad if modern progressives don't have goals in mind, but probably expecting Occupy to come out with a coherent plan was too early. Any movement comes at the end of a long period of debate and reflection; OWS and its sibling movements were too early.

I agree the labels and tribalism often don't help - the most hilarious example of this being a kind of collective blood-in-the-water hate frenzy is this garbage community reaction to a non-event, where nearly everybody piles on one side or other: "You're the greenshirt" or "Caveman was an asshole." It seems like nobody wants any part of responsibility and instead to just push it off on somebody else. (btw, stashedude was not in the wrong.) Pretty much the tribalist format for any political debate ever, and just as futile as any.

at some point everyone will get tired of that shit and tell them to fuck off like Protein World here did

Ha, that's actually inspiring in a way, even if I don't sign off on their Tweets it shows that claims the world is being killed by PC are far from the mark.

[Skykid]

speaking of terrorist acts

honestly i wouldn't even care at this point, these people get butthurt over fitness ads

at some point everyone will get tired of that shit and tell them to fuck off like Protein World here did

It's actually genuinely stupid. Why don't people go around defacing Victoria's Secret ads or bombing their catwalk shows?

In the end they're selling weight loss supplements - how many options for successful advertising do you have?

Perhaps they'd prefer a photo of a morbidly obese heffer with the slogan "Want to look like this all your life? "

[BIL]

+1 on the atrocity exhibition. So many clowns! WTF is this? I may mentally file these people and their business into what can be described as an industrial car shredder positioned over an open furnace, because unlike some I have videogames that need playing [and thus I don't have time for any SHIT-EATING SCRUBS (・｀W´・) ], but good lord did I get some sweet schadenfreude from their hijinks! Dericious! Here is a new favourite:

RADIOACTIVE GAREGGA SHRAPNEL IN MUH FACE not rly
"gib me monies for lifesaving surgery, pls"
desturctoid nub: "IS ACTUALLY 4 SEX CHANGE >__>"
"how dare u spill teh beanz!!!"
DESTRUCORD SHITCANNED NUB 4 HE CRIMEZ

god have mercy

[Ed Oscuro]

Meanwhile at the Commons, Dennis Skinner: "They cancelled PMQs for this?" George Galloway: "Facts are chiels that winna ding, an downa be disputed. It was a grave miscalculation for the government to follow the BBC in muffling Big Ben and censoring Ding Dong"

[evil_ash_xero]

speaking of terrorist acts

honestly i wouldn't even care at this point, these people get butthurt over fitness ads

at some point everyone will get tired of that shit and tell them to fuck off like Protein World here did

One would hope. I mean, these SJWs don't affect sales. Unless you mean bringing attention to something, and then the sales going up.
They have no negative impact on sales whatsoever.
And it goes in the other direction to. The stuff the SJWs push and praise, don't sell for shit. Look at that game Anita was pimping a while back. Sales almost didn't increase at all.
They're good at controversy....but not so much at buying things.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

It's actually genuinely stupid. Why don't people go around defacing Victoria's Secret ads or bombing their catwalk shows?

Victoria's Secret is a well known international brand with a lot of money. Protein World is (was) some unheard of small business or something. Bullies generally don't pick fights unless they think they can win - the core of Gamergate's stance against the media and SJWs.

Personally, I think everyone is winning Gamergate. Kuchera and pals are gone as Evil_Ash mentioned above, the 'feels over reals' method of reporting clearly works - demonstated by everyone in this thread who bought the 'hate group' narrative - and the progressive bullies have a nice target to vent their frustrations/blame everything on. Who doesn't want to stick it to "those fucking nerds"?

[evil_ash_xero]

The GGinDC meetup, with Milo and C.H. Sommers, got a bomb threat. So, they had to evacuate the building.

It's a REAL shock that the media isn't reporting on this, like they did with the aGGs.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

This was the very first official meetup of GG, in the U.S. too. I was going to try and make it, but I have a trip coming up next week, so I just didn't feel like doing the trip (both trips are close to 6 hours). I guess it's for the best, even though they look like they had a good time anyway.

We'll hear about that Anita Sarkeesian bomb threat, at the University of Utah, for the rest of our lives...but I doubt we'll see this on ABC.

https://techraptor.net/content/gamergat ... omb-threat

Arthur Chu is kind of scary.

[Mischief Maker]

Interesting read about Polygon shitting up its Witcher 3 review to try and get SJW cred/pussy:

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-w ... 7ac8d7f0a5

[BryanM]

SJW

What's wrong with trying to appeal to the Single Jewish Woman demographic? They play games, too.

[Squire Grooktook]

I really don't see why I should care about game journalism, one way or the other. I mean yeah, some of that stuff is dumb, but so is the "shmups are easy cause unlimited credits and should be 25 cents because 20 minutes long" which is a far worse attitude since it influences people and developers away from certain playstyles and genres, and will be a lot harder to scrub away. Scantily clad heroines have a far better chance of remaining a vital part of the industry. Shmups and arcade style games...not so much.

I research my games, look into them a bit, and if it looks interesting, I give it a shot and form my own opinion. This method has lead me wrong far less than any game journalist.

[Bananamatic]

reminder that Hatred is coming out in 2 weeks

anyone else ready for the delicious drama

[Ed Oscuro]

The real shame is that this attitude that games should be reviewed like film, i.e. primarily for bling factor, and then for philosophical content, has taken pride of place in English games reporting for so long. Today's SJW criticism is tomorrow's NAVGTR review. I know Nintendo Power used to pretend to have the TIPZ AND TRICKS (oh and there was that magazine of the same name, too) but that attitude is mostly long gone from the scene.

Really, it's just the latest evolution or flavor of the same old shit.

Arguably the only thing left is Brady Games guides and the like, but of course those are just how-to guides, predicated on games requiring mazes full of useless baubles and maps to methodically label and photograph for the games tourist. And this is precisely the kind of thing that so many games reviewers would expect to be asked to put together, and it's obvious from so many reviews that the only things driving many in the industry are Dewritos and the graphics game. The thought that games would be fun, and not just mazes of junk to excavate, never gets mentioned in reviews of games that sorely need to get thoroughly shaken out.

reminder that Hatred is coming out in 2 weeks

anyone else ready for the delicious drama

Shit flavor of the week.

[BryanM]

anyone else ready for the delicious drama

Murder simulators are as old as time itself. What do you think happens to a goomba when you jump on it? It just disappears into magic pixie dust? No. It's horrible. You crush its fuckin' guts right out of its body. Then its family has to take this pureed mess of mushroom and spaghetti that used to be their son, stick him in a box, and put it in the ground.

An entire nation of harmless defenseless mushroom people (they don't even have arms to fight back, for christ's sake) put to the brink of extinction because their dragon king pissed off a homicidal mustache god.

Compared to the horrors of that, Rob Zombie X Anders Brevik Simulator: Hatred, is a light fluffy harem fantasy world for schoolboys.

[evil_ash_xero]

I really don't see why I should care about game journalism, one way or the other.

Well, the thing about it, and why I think it matters, is because they hold power. They hold power over publishers. So publishers will change their games, to market to an SJW audience, that doesn't exist. Is it the end of the world? Personally, I think it's censorship, and the far left have basically taken over media, and universities. So, why not stand up for our little hobby?

There needs to be pushback.

And honestly, after reading the articles on all these sites pushing these SJW agendas, it got to the point to where your eyes were wanting to bleed.

I guess, in SJW speak, you could call them "microagressions".

Stuff in the real world is much more important, such as what's going on in universities, and laws being passed ("yes means yes" law, in CA)....but this is something that looks like we actually can win.
And this would have died out, if they didn't keep demonizing gamers. It's just dumb. I'd like a truce, but it'll never happen.

The upcoming SPJ panel, where represenatives from GG will FINALLY be allowed to speak, is very exciting. http://techraptor.net/content/spj-confe ... ir-hearing

Honestly though, I know none of the higher ups, of the antiGG, are going to debate. Wu, Sarkeesian, even McIntosh. I'm sure they can get some other figures, but those higher ups aren't going to debate. Especially when their arguments are shit.
Maybe that dude that runs Kotaku could debate? Wesley Crusher might show up.
But I don't think they have anything to say, other than "women have been harassed on Twitter". That's like the beginning and end of their argument.
I'm DYING to see a debate. I'm hoping Sargon of Akkad, and Milo will go, on our behalf.

I mean, this won't be on TV, but at least there it is...out in the open. People can hear both sides, and can make a decision, instead of being told what to think.
I've never seen anything like the smearing of GG. And since I've been following this, and have been a part of it, I know this just isn't true.

And how come no one cares when someone doxxes or harasses a man online? But if it's a woman, the whole world explodes? It's really weird.
It's like White Knighting, on a whole new scale.

And the thing is, in RL, women don't have the upper hand with some asshole dude, who has had too much to drink, or whatever. He could push her around, or worse (unless there are other guys around, and then they would kick his ass. I've seen it.). On the net, it's just words. Talk some shit back, ladies.
Many of them do...but I'm just saying. It's a level playing field, online.

And as for "Hatred"...I don't like it. As an American, it strikes me to be in very bad taste. We've had a lot of things VERY much like this here. But if the market wants it, so be it. And I doubt it will cause actual real world violence. I just think it's kind of disgusting. But that's just my opinion.
Might be the violent equivalent of RapeLay, where people let their worst out in a game.

[trap15]

Modern games are dead anyways who cares.

[evil_ash_xero]

Modern games are dead anyways who cares.

...........there's a few left.

But things ain't that hot, yeah. Sometimes it is hard to care THAT much.

[Squire Grooktook]

I really don't see why I should care about game journalism, one way or the other.

Well, the thing about it, and why I think it matters, is because they hold power. They hold power over publishers. So publishers will change their games, to market to an SJW audience, that doesn't exist. Is it the end of the world? Personally, I think it's censorship, and the far left have basically taken over media, and universities. So, why not stand up for our little hobby?

Like Trap said, hard to care when 99% of most mainstream modern games are so shit. What do I care if a character in Mass Effect 4 has a higher neckline? It's a kusoge either way.

Like I said, if we were talking ways to get journalists to start extolling the virtues of shmups and arcade style games, that would be one thing. But we're not. We're not doing anything close. And even if we were, it'd take more than that.

In my honest opinion, the reason games have gone the way they have is because of gamers. Ironically, I have to agree that "gamers are what's wrong with gaming" but for completely different reasons. It's their fault for not buying arcade style games and games built around similar tenets, and while journalists could possibly have swayed them slightly towards such games if they had a mind to do so, ultimately the decline of the type of games I like comes down to the audience not caring about tension/excitement/depth and just wanting a shiny 3d world full of ten bajillion side quests to diddle over.

Sjw's are irrelevant to my interests. I don't need video games to jack off, so I don't care if that part is "censored", but even so it's unlikely that sex appeal will ever die out from such a medium, regardless of what anybody ever says or does. Meanwhile, things I actually like are dying out, or at least becoming more and more rare with an uncertain future, and GamerGate is far from intervening on that front.


*edit* I don't mean to sound cynical or "all hope is gone!". I do believe there are still good games being made, both in line with my own interests and others, but I feel many of them don't come from a place that "sjw's" or GamerGate have an influence or standing. And even then, them influencing these games wouldn't change what I like about them.

[Bananamatic]

thing is, the current "game journalism" isn't even game journalism, it's just paid advertising done by people who don't really know shit about games with some political bullshit mixed in masquerading as game journalism, i seriously doubt they would be interested in anything arcade

better off making some independent reviews get interested in it, iirc totalbiscuit and slowbeef covered CCWI already

big site reviews are outdated as hell by now anyways, you've got tons of dudes online who know 10x as much about videogames willing to review stuff for free with way less bias

[trap15]

Right. So why should anyone care about """"ethics in game journalism"""" when game journalism doesn't matter anyways.

[Squire Grooktook]

Agree with both of the above posts.

And even beyond that, at the end of the day you really need to come to your own conclusions, at least in your field of greatest interest. Even if game journalism was fucking awesome, it would be unwise to rely on them to decide for you what to buy.

There are people around here who I think are very knowledgeable and articulate, and that I agree with 99% of the time. But there's always one game where I'm like "you really think that's a bad game? Are you crazy?". Reviews are always based on opinions, and everyone has different taste. It's almost (outright?) impossible to find someone you'll agree with all the time.

Reading up on a few opinions and watching some gameplay footage is enough to tell you the basics of what you need to know about a game. After that, you just need to gamble and take the plunge. No pain, no gain. Not good for people with very limited income, but sadly there's just no way to be 100% sure if you'll like a game or not, and all the reviews in the world won't give you complete certainty.

[Never_Scurred]

"SJW", I would've figured the so-called "oppressed straight white guy majority" could've come up with something more creative than that.