Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit

[blizzz]

The SNES has (at max) 224 lines of video in a 240 lines frame. That is all fine and for the screenshot I just scaled it by 3 with nearest neighbour to get to 720 lines.
The problem is the horizontal resolution. The SC-500N1 (and I guess the XCAPTURE-1?) can only sample a 720x240 frame. So the 256px picture gets stretched by a non-integer factor. To get back to the 4:3 aspect ratio I had to use some kind of smooth scaling from 720x720 to 960x720. That is another scaling with a non-integer factor.

The result is that the picture looks perfectly sharp vertically, but is not sharp horizontally.

The Framemeister (or other scalers) don't have to do the 720x240 step in between and can go directly to 960x720 which removes one of the bad scaling steps.

[Fudoh]

So the 256px picture gets stretched by a non-integer factor.

technically that's not how sampling in the A/D conversion works. Imagine it more like a grid with 720 slots into which your source (with only 256 pixels) gets "pressed". The fixed grid causes pixels to get spliced up. The Framemeister on the other hand analyzes the source resolution first, then creates a grid with a matching resolution to do the A/D conversion and once the analogue source is sampled, it gets properly upscaled (with every new pixel being properly calculated).

[blizzz]

So the 256px picture gets stretched by a non-integer factor.

technically that's not how sampling in the A/D conversion works. Imagine it more like a grid with 720 slots into which your source (with only 256 pixels) gets "pressed". The fixed grid causes pixels to get spliced up.

Isn't that just some kind of stretching algorithm? You have x original pixels and have to distribute the information over n pixels. But technicalities aside, I understand that a perfect upscaler is better than a SD capture card that has a fixed horizontal resolution can ever be.

[Fudoh]

Isn't that just some kind of stretching algorithm? You have x original pixels and have to distribute the information over n pixels.

You assume that the capture card knows how many "x original pixels" there are, but it doesn't. The sampling of analogue signals is the hard part for all capture units (and upscalers). Especially with 240p because there are so many variations depending on your source hardware.

[blizzz]

You assume that the capture card knows how many "x original pixels" there are, but it doesn't.

No, I don't. I'm just saying that the result is the same as (bad) scaling. In fact I thought that the Framemeister works the same way internally. But if it actually tries to do a smart sampling then it's no wonder that the quality is better. Maybe I should just finally succumb and buy a Framemeister myself

[Fudoh]

I'm just saying that the result is the same as (bad) scaling

kind of. With actual (bad) scaling you usually end up with blurred columns while here you get those rather sharp (but discolored) halos.

Maybe I should just finally succumb and buy a Framemeister myself

nothing wrong with that

[VGBC_GimR]

I'm having an issue. I have an Intel 3.0 Chipset. Basically after a random amount of time the device loses the source(No matter what program I'm in) in Xsplit refreshing the source doesn't work. I have to actually re add it to the scene :/

[eightbitminiboss]

I'm having an issue. I have an Intel 3.0 Chipset. Basically after a random amount of time the device loses the source(No matter what program I'm in) in Xsplit refreshing the source doesn't work. I have to actually re add it to the scene :/

Is the chipset on the motherboard or expansion card? Have you updated the firmware of the chipset to its latest version?

[VGBC_GimR]

I'm having an issue. I have an Intel 3.0 Chipset. Basically after a random amount of time the device loses the source(No matter what program I'm in) in Xsplit refreshing the source doesn't work. I have to actually re add it to the scene :/

Is the chipset on the motherboard or expansion card? Have you updated the firmware of the chipset to its latest version?

I've got the latest driver for my usb chipset and it's connected to the motherboard. I have the c216 and I updated the host controller to the latestFebruary build but I can't find the latest firmware just by looking for it. The longest it lasted before shutting off was an hour :/ sometimes it's like 30 seconds.

[Sixfortyfive]

Got a few ?s.

1) Does anyone know what "Single Resolution Output" and "Frame Rate Adjustment" actually do?



2) Saturn Virtua Fighter 2 runs at an internal resolution of 704x448i. The XCAPTURE-1 picks it up as roughly 663x448, though. Do you think there's anything that can be done about this or is it just a quirk of the device's horizontal sampling?

3) Does anyone know what the ON/OFF switch on the bottom of the XSYNC-1 actually does? Mine seems to work the same no matter what this is set to.

[lettuce]

Anyone know if this device supports 5.1 or above for DD True HD and DTS?

[lettuce]

It would appear that this device only accept stereo audio whilst capturing and not 5.1, have been trying to capture a few XBOX ONE games and have noticed that there are some sound effects missing and no voices in cut scenes. I would have thought this device would of be able to capture 5.1 audio? The only way im able to get the audio working correctly is if i set the XBOX ONE to stereo uncompressed, but then im losing out on 5.1 audio when playing the game.

Strange thing is i cant remember having this issue when i used to capture on the XBOX 360 console

[blizzz]

I don't think there's any HDMI capture card / device in the <$500 range that can record surround sound.

[eightbitminiboss]

Definitely not consumer level devices.

[lettuce]

Yeah thats what i thought, strange that i never got this issue on the 360 then and i always had that set to 5.1, i thought it must of just resampled it down to stereo audio? But with the Xbox One, im just not getting all the audio channels now

[Fudoh]

I did some DD5.1 recording many years ago, when I captured some laserdiscs originally encoded in AC3 RF.

Easiest way was to use a seperate audio interface. You need a 6 channel input (3x analogue stereo). Audio interfaces like this have been around for many years and I would be surprised if you couldn't find a cheap one. Then you need a pre-amp which decodes your digital input to 6 analogue channels. Sounds more complicated than it actually is. Back in the days the biggest problem was the data rate with the change of video dropping a frame now and then, but these days ? That's no longer a problem.

Encoding the audio afterwards is easy. Either DD or DTS.

Recording Multichannel PCM or Bitstream directly is a completely different topic though and MUCH more expensive.

[lettuce]

I did some DD5.1 recording many years ago, when I captured some laserdiscs originally encoded in AC3 RF.

Easiest way was to use a seperate audio interface. You need a 6 channel input (3x analogue stereo). Audio interfaces like this have been around for many years and I would be surprised if you couldn't find a cheap one. Then you need a pre-amp which decodes your digital input to 6 analogue channels. Sounds more complicated than it actually is. Back in the days the biggest problem was the data rate with the change of video dropping a frame now and then, but these days ? That's no longer a problem.

Encoding the audio afterwards is easy. Either DD or DTS.

Recording Multichannel PCM or Bitstream directly is a completely different topic though and MUCH more expensive.

Well the setup i have at the moment is

Consoles> 6x2 HDMI Matrix>A/V Amp> Display

The HDMI matix has an option on it where you can select between 2, 5.1 or 7.1 channels i though setting this to 2 channel audio would of sorted the issue but appears not to, infact with the matrix set to 2 channel my Sony A/V amp still reports 5.1 audio signal.

This is the matrix i have, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190959035724? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Obviosuly if i set the XBOX ONE to stereo then i get all the audio from the capture but this isnt really ideal when gaming as i want the full 5.1 experience

[blizzz]

I just had a look at the Blackmagic DeckLink product line again. The DeckLink Mini Recorder lists 8 channel audio input on HDMI as a feature. Does that mean you can get a 100€ card and record 7.1 LPCM with it?

Edit: It costs 130€. The 100€ prices were without taxes >.>

[Fudoh]

Maybe they evolved over the years. Certainly sounds like it!

[lettuce]

Im not actually interested in the capture file being 5.1, im wanting to be able to leave the XB1 set to 5.1 and then somehow have the capture file record all the channels and just have it as a 2 channel capture. As it stands its not really ideal having to play your games in 2014 with stereo output, with the XB1 set to 5.1 the capture isnt capture the dialog channel which is the center channel, i want a way to redirects the center channel information back into the main channel so the capture picks up the center channel (dialog), it seem to capture everything else just there no voice's

What options do i have here, is there a software route i cant take or would i need another bit of hardware in between the XB1 and the XCAPTURE-1 device, to get this to work?

[blizzz]

You will need some kind of hardware that accepts surround sound on its HDMI in and outputs stereo either via HDMI or S/PDIF / cinch. There are some cheap HDMI matrix solutions that offer stereo output. The one I've got can downmix surround to stereo, but it sounds like garbage. There's even a volume difference between the front right and front left channel. It even sound like trash if you just have a stereo signal.

Maybe your AV receiver can output an additional stereo channel that you can capture?

[SuperDeadite]

The Micomsoft XDAC-1?

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xdac-1.htm

[lettuce]

You will need some kind of hardware that accepts surround sound on its HDMI in and outputs stereo either via HDMI or S/PDIF / cinch. There are some cheap HDMI matrix solutions that offer stereo output. The one I've got can downmix surround to stereo, but it sounds like garbage. There's even a volume difference between the front right and front left channel. It even sound like trash if you just have a stereo signal.

Maybe your AV receiver can output an additional stereo channel that you can capture?

I do actual have a 6x2 HDMI matrix. My setup is...

XB1>>>>>HDMI matrix>>>>>A/V AMP>>>>>>TV

The hdmi matrix has the option to select 2, 5.1 or 7.1 audio but doesnt seem to make any difference at all, i actual bought this matrix for this feature but doesnt seem to do what i want it to do. I would have though if i selected 2 ch audio then it would of downmixed any incomping audio to 2 ch!??

This is the Matrix device i have....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-HDMI-Matr ... 1185956061

if you scroll down if shows the specs for the device

[blizzz]

Does your AV amp have an additional 3 RCA output for composite + stereo audio? If it does you could use that to capture the audio.

[lettuce]

Does your AV amp have an additional 3 RCA output for composite + stereo audio? If it does you could use that to capture the audio.

Yeah its a SONY STR-DH800,



thing is i think i can only select one source for audio at a time, in which case im wanting the HDMI audio, im not sure you can select 2 sources (HDMI + 3 RCA) for the audio???

[Fudoh]

what blizzz meant was for you to try if the analogue audio OUTPUT (bottom left where it says VIDEO 1) delivers stereo while the HDMI output still delivers Bitstream or Multichannel PCM - both from the same source of course.

[blizzz]

Yes, kinda. I meant HDMI in and analogue audio out plus your normal surround speakers at the same time. The HDMI output from the receiver shouldn't matter in that setup. On my receiver (Yamaha RX-V475) there are 3 RCA jacks labeled as output for recording, but I just found out that you can only use them with analogue input. Most likely your receiver has the same limitation.

But I found out that when I disable HDMI control from the TV I can set my receiver to output surround audio by itself and at the same time output a HDMI signal with downmixed audio if the connected device only supports stereo. Maybe you can get the same settings.

I've tested it with the Wii U's audio setup and the Elgato HD. Wii U directly to Elgato doesn't play all beeps on the surround test. Wii U to AV receiver to Elgato HD plays all beeps correctly. At the same time you get surround sound through your speakers / headphone.

[lettuce]

Ok so i have connected up the VIDEO 1 Output audio on the rear of the amp and then plugged this into the phone sockets on the XCAPTURE-1 i have gone into the audio options within AmaRec and change the audio input from Embedded audio to Line-In but im not getting any audio from the XB1 at all, or though i did noticed when i changed the AMP to a FM radio station i got the audio from the radio station through my PC speakers (i usually get the game im capturing coming through the PC speakers).

[CkRtech]

From the manual for your receiver, page 26:

Notes on HDMI connections

• An audio signal input to the HDMI IN jack is output from the SPEAKERS jacks and HDMI OUT jack. It is not output from any other audio jacks.

• Video signals input to the HDMI IN jack can only be output from the HDMI OUT jack. The video input signals cannot be output from the VIDEO OUT jacks or MONITOR OUT jacks

So unfortunately, it looks like it can't double as a line level DAC (as blizzz predicted).

Your TV may have audio output available for what you want to do, however the modern era TVs tend to only output digital (via optical). Granted, if that worked, you could have a secondary DAC (...yay?) that takes your optical output and converts it to analog stereo.

[Fudoh]

Down conversion on TVs is very limited. Their EDID doesn't even allow multi channel PCM or DTS. AC3 usually works, but nothing else. So once you run audio through the TV you're basically back to the original problem where the XCAPTURE limits the source to stereo output.