bcass wrote:Typical comments from people who either haven't played the game or haven't played much of it.
You realize I have played it, right? (not long enough to give a fuck about it though, lol) Your accusation is, not very ironically, completely par for the course for people defending the game. If you paid any attention earlier in the game we've been over the whole once the shitty platforming is done the majority of the game is spent with puzzles, so calling it a platformer is retarded, etc.
Also, the comparison to bugs in a shmup game is not a good comparison as Fez generally isn't a game requiring much in the way of reflexes or time critical coordination.
that's certainly an 'interesting' way to defend a game requiring hourly resets, hahahaha
Roo, you have a very narrow view on frame drops. They are in there to signify that we shouldn't hurry things, that we should take our time and think things slowly and carefully instead of hastily taking bad decisions. It's not shoddy programming, it's a deep message.
Nice way to completely miss the point. You seriously think that 200,000 sales constitutes popularity on a service where some games sell into the millions?
Udderdude wrote:
bcass wrote:You're right about the levels of entitlement and self-righteousness from the haters though. Funny that the people accusing Fish of it are actually a hundred times worse than him when it comes to small minded insular pettiness.
Entitlement? What the hell are you even talking about? I'm mostly just having a laugh at how crap it is and how many "it's all about the magical expeeeeeeerience" gamers are forking over the cash ..
You're right. You don't fall under the entitlement bracket. You fall under the "small minded insular pettiness" bracket, thus demonstrated by your insecure and juvenile posts in this thread.
Udderdude wrote:
bcass wrote:There's actually some pretty challenging platforming later in the game
Got a link to that? I find it extremely hard to believe ..
I completed the game. I've been playing platform games since the early 80s. I know a challenging platform section when I see one.
Anyway, I'm really enjoying the faux outrage. Keeping Fez in peoples minds will probably result in even more sales.
BareknuckleRoo wrote:You realize I have played it, right? (not long enough to give a fuck about it though, lol) Your accusation is, not very ironically, completely par for the course for people defending the game.
I'm not defending the game. I'm just laughing at the insecure people who feel the need to be completely twattish about the game and Fish.
BareknuckleRoo wrote:If you paid any attention earlier in the game we've been over the whole once the shitty platforming is done the majority of the game is spent with puzzles, so calling it a platformer is retarded, etc.
Hmmm. Your ignorance is quite apparent here, as the hardest platforming sections are towards the end of the game. Still, as per most posts in this thread, let's not let facts get in the way of a bit of entitled nerd rage!
No, I don't consider the way you are arguing your case intellectual; quite the opposite. Hence faux intellectualism. Just like your calling people who voice valid criticisms "insecure and juvenile".
bcass wrote:I completed the game. I've been playing platform games since the early 80s. I know a challenging platform section when I see one.
Wow, another cop-out. I should pretend to be surprised.
I found some of the platforming sections in Fez challenging. In what way is that a cop-out? If I was hailing it as the best platform game ever, you might have a point, but everyone, including myself, have already acknowledged that it's more of a puzzle game.
You could make a post pointing the intricacies of the system, debunk the bug reports, post videos showing challenging parts of the game and explaining what makes them as challenging as any other decent platformer or how the puzzles are as challenging and well crafted as in any other good puzzle game, but I guess that dismissing every complaint as "faux outrage" is much easier than that.
Hagane wrote:You could make a post pointing the intricacies of the system, debunk the bug reports, post videos showing challenging parts of the game and explaining what makes them as challenging as any other decent platformer or how the puzzles are as challenging and well crafted as in any other good puzzle game
Hagane wrote:You could make a post pointing the intricacies of the system, debunk the bug reports, post videos showing challenging parts of the game and explaining what makes them as challenging as any other decent platformer or how the puzzles are as challenging and well crafted as in any other good puzzle game, but I guess that dismissing every complaint as "faux outrage" is much easier than that.
I haven't dismissed every complaint as "faux outrage". Given that most of the complaints in this thread come from people who either haven't played it or have played very little of it, I don't see what obligation I have to go into any significant detail in rebutting their ignorant opinions.
Also, why would I debunk bug reports when I already said that my playthrough was affected by bugs?
bcass wrote:
I haven't dismissed every complaint as "faux outrage". Given that most of the complaints in this thread come from people who either haven't played it or have played very little of it, I don't see what obligation I have to go into any significant detail in rebutting their ignorant opinions.
As a Fez expert, what would you say are it's biggest strengths and biggest flaws? Sort of a + and - format. I usually find those useful.
I don't really consider myself an expert on the game. I completed it, solved most of the puzzles myself and had a lot of fun in the process. The biggest plus for me isn't any single element of the game. It's one of those things where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Although that said, many of puzzles are really quite ingenious, especially later into the game.
The biggest negative is obviously the bugs, but I was only really affected by one bug, which was easily fixed by simply reloading the game every hour or so, which was no big deal given how compelling I found the game.
After years of "artsy" throwbacks to oldschool games, I have to say that I still don't get the point. Blocky early 8-bit visuals? Weird effects to resemble postmodern paintings (not in Fez)? Maybe others find that stuff interesting but it certainly detracts from my enjoyment.
I'll be the first to say that I play games for the experience and not the mechanics. I would gladly defend that point in games against those who feel atmosphere doesn't matter. I highly doubt anybody would play games if you stripped them into hitboxes (this is actually possible via LUA scripts now so give your favorite games a try if you haven't already). However, the experience Fez offers doesn't appeal to me. Sonic the Hedgehog provides a fast-paced magical world experience; I would probably lose interest if it had Fez's aesthetics. I suppose the calm, pastoral atmosphere may be appealing to some but if anything, Fez seems to focus primarily on the mechanics.
I don't think Fez is one of the worst sidescrollers ever but it does feel more like work than fun collecting all the pieces. I never liked the collection aspects in Mario and Donkey Kong Country either, but at least those weren't the primary goals of those games. I've also never enjoyed heavily puzzle-based sidescrollers; I don't see much clamoring for Oddworld here either. I suppose Fez is at the intersection of item collection and puzzle, which is far from where many action sidescroller fans want to be. I would rather play a hundred other sidescrollers from the 90s instead that have more grounded visuals and straightforward action mechanics. However, one thing that's always perplexed me is how Umihara Kawase gets such rave reviews amongst gaming connoisseurs when it seems nearly as abstract and pastoral as Fez (with a gimmicky mechanic of its own to boot), albeit with a clearer goal.
Ganelon wrote:However, one thing that's always perplexed me is how Umihara Kawase gets such rave reviews amongst gaming connoisseurs when it seems nearly as abstract and pastoral as Fez (with a gimmicky mechanic of its own to boot), albeit with a clearer goal.
I never got the hang (hurr) of that one, but it's mechanic is better implemented, more interesting in terms of potential and it also has enemies and bosses.
It's atmosphere is also more "Charmingly wierd" than Fez's "Trying too hard to be indie".
However, one thing that's always perplexed me is how Umihara Kawase gets such rave reviews amongst gaming connoisseurs when it seems nearly as abstract and pastoral as Fez (with a gimmicky mechanic of its own to boot), albeit with a clearer goal.
I don't see how it is perplexing to praise a game for its mechanics, level design and challenge. It's sad to see how the word "game" has lost so much of its value.
I had to look up this game because I kept on clicking on this topic and not having a clue what anyone was talking about, and then I realised I'd played this game a few months ago. Was pretty fun playing through with a friend. I liked the stupidly obtuse puzzles especially, but then point & clicks were my favourite genre growing up. No idea how anyone could feel particularly strongly one way or the other about it. There are much more interesting and divisive videogames to spend your time quarrelling over
(I wonder if the people criticising Fez for not having enemies also moan when a film is in black and white... reeks of closed mindedness)
Really, the hatred from people that haven't played the game either at all, or properly, is quite astonishing. I'd like to see someone write off an average shmup because the first five minutes weren't their thing and read the shitstorm and accusations of ignorance that would surely follow.
Can we agree that people who complain about games which do not appeal to them, which they do not intend to play, and which do not hurt them or their gaming habits at all, are kinda sad?
People complaining about shit that does not concern them in the least have too much time on their hands. Go read a book, play a game you like, or have a wank instead. Time better spent.
So, having standards and being critic of what you dislike is sad? I guess you were being a sad individual when you posted your criticisms of Tomoyoki Kotani's and Hyung Tae Kim's art in the SDOJ thread, then?
Marc wrote:Really, the hatred from people that haven't played the game either at all, or properly, is quite astonishing. I'd like to see someone write off an average shmup because the first five minutes weren't their thing and read the shitstorm and accusations of ignorance that would surely follow.
It's because the person who designed it is an obnoxious self promotional prick. Frame rate sucks too. Oh and it was actually someone else's idea. And it has bugs. And the media went all gushy over it because they're mostly ignorant.
At all the "You never played it so you can't critisize it!" comments : There's enough info on the game out there to make a good judgement of it, and to make an analogy, you don't need to try eating a peanut butter and fish sandwich to know it'd taste disgusting .. :p
Marc wrote:Really, the hatred from people that haven't played the game either at all, or properly, is quite astonishing.
Amazing isn't it. I wonder what it is that makes people so insecure that they feel the need to form such aggresive opinions about something they have little to no experience of. I mean seriously, what makes these people think that anyone is interested in their 2nd-hand opinions in the first place?
Marc wrote:I'd like to see someone write off an average shmup because the first five minutes weren't their thing and read the shitstorm and accusations of ignorance that would surely follow.
So, so true. The levels of hypocrisy from the haters in this thread are through the roof. Even more hilarious that non of them can spot this flaw in their logic.
mjemirzian wrote:Do you think it's possible someone could have played through Fez and still not liked it?
Absolutely. If it hasn't charmed you within the first few hours then you're not likely to enjoy the rest of the game. In which case, fair enough. If you gave it a chance and don't like it then you don't like it and you're more than entitled to your opinion, because you have some actual experience on which to base that opinion. It's one of those games where you absolutely can not make a proper critical assesment of it until you've played it for a while. Like a lot of games really. Reading other peoples opinions (and most likely spoiling loads of the puzzles and secrets in the process) is not the basis for a valid opinion.
The very strange thing with this thread though is that certain individuals are being aggresively negative towards the game, often without having actually played it. To me, that strikes me as extremely odd. Insecure, even.
