Mega Man Miscellanies

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I'll skip Battle Network 4, it's the worst entry in the EXE universe for a variety of reasons, crap gameplay, tons of copy&paste, lame story and lame final boss.

... You haven't even played it yet, so I can't say I'm surprised to hear how retarded these criticisms are, but goddamn. Honestly, if you don't like the gameplay of BN4, don't even bother with 5 or 6, since the new features don't just disappear. Tons of copypaste? where?! I never found myself getting lost in the cyberworld unlike BN1; if you were able to tolerate it there, why would it even be a problem in any other game?! Lame story? this is a Mega Man game, what else can you expect? the fact that it takes a backseat to a tournament arc is a good thing because then you don't have to deal with any filler. Lame final boss? you're just pulling that one out of your ass. The one thing most people can agree on the subject of BN4 is that Duo was an awesome final boss. Life Virus and Gregar/Falzer? now those were real pathetic excuses for a final boss. Also...

Final List:

Top Tier - Mega Man X/Mega Man X4
Solid - Mega Man X8
Average - Mega Man X2/Mega Man X3/Mega Man X5
Failures - Mega Man X6/Mega Man X7

I so totally called it.

[njiska]

while X4 is top-tier, final boss is frustrating, actually the hardest final boss in X series for me (didn't play X7, I pretend that one didn't happen).

I'm really surprised by that. While he is certainly challenging, the most difficult Sigma I fought was the second form in X3.

Final List:

Top Tier - Mega Man X/Mega Man X4
Solid - Mega Man X8
Average - Mega Man X2/Mega Man X3/Mega Man X5
Failures - Mega Man X6/Mega Man X7

I so totally called it.

What can I say? It was a solid title. Fast gameplay, decent levels, some really nice spike platforming sections, an interesting final boss and a partner system that actually adds to the experience rather than taking away from it. It's still far from a perfect game and Gigavolt Man-O-War and Avalanche Yeti's stages were pretty poor, but on the whole I still enjoyed it. X7 was just a bad idea and X6 was just dickish.

Almost done with Zero 1 now. Was pretty humiliating to get stuck on aztec falcon for a bit after beating 2-4 he is a very hard first boss though. I think 2 is is my favorite still, with 3 second. Can't think of anything bad with 4 apart from the item making system though.

Aztec Falcon was by far the biggest hurdle in the series for me too. (He's the one with the spinning staff and zombies, right?)

Nah, aztec is the boss of the first mission. Anubis was pretty easy for me since I had the charge slash by then.

The biggest hurdle I had to get over with the Zero series was mission system of the first game. The way continuing was handled really encouraged reloading saves and that meant replaying the same section over and over and over. I'm glad they dropped it for the rest of the series. I'm also glad to see weapon leveling was dropped from Z3. That shit was just an annoying grind.

Guess I should pick up ZX and ZX Advent soon. Can anyone tell me if Command Mission is worth a look?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I dunno man. I felt all the dick moves X6 pulled were a lot more intuitive than locking you in a room and throwing a bunch of popcorn enemies at you. X8's pacing just felt very sloppy; Burn Rooster's and Earthrock Trilobite's stages just make me plain sleepy, and for once I agree that the ride chaser stages were crap, and this is coming from someone who thought Squid Adler was the best part of X5. The only stages I thought were exceptional to X8 were Bamboo Pandamonium's and Optic Sunflower's. Far from the worst, but far from the best as well.

[Kaiser]

... You haven't even played it yet, so I can't say I'm surprised to hear how retarded these criticisms are, but goddamn. Honestly, if you don't like the gameplay of BN4, don't even bother with 5 or 6, since the new features don't just disappear. Tons of copypaste? where?! I never found myself getting lost in the cyberworld unlike BN1; if you were able to tolerate it there, why would it even be a problem in any other game?! Lame story? this is a Mega Man game, what else can you expect? the fact that it takes a backseat to a tournament arc is a good thing because then you don't have to deal with any filler. Lame final boss? you're just pulling that one out of your ass. The one thing most people can agree on the subject of BN4 is that Duo was an awesome final boss. Life Virus and Gregar/Falzer? now those were real pathetic excuses for a final boss. Also...

I'll give BN4 a shot then when I get around it, anyway the thing I noticed about BN games when it comes to their story that they primarly focus on character themselves than trying to be original, which is not a bad thing.

[Mortificator]

Can anyone tell me if Command Mission is worth a look?

I think the battle system's a lot of fun. The characters and enemies are well-designed. If you're expecting to learn about and explore the world, though, you'll be disappointed. Command Mission's mostly isolated from the rest of the series, both geographically and plot-wise. Your new party members will bring up their issues and opponents will speechify on their philosophy until X cuts in: "Uh, that's interesting and all, but I'm here to kill Mavericks."

The Game Boy Color games haven't been mentioned in this thread yet. Xtreme is the only X game I don't like; in fact, I think it's total shit. Xtreme 2 isn't something I'd take over any of the main games, but it's pretty good, outside of the stupid multiple playthrough mechanic. Your first run will be as X and you'll only fight four Mavericks and Berkana, your second will be as Zero and you'll fight the other four Mavericks and Gareth. It's only after that you get to play "Extreme Mode," where you can switch between X and Zero with the same system X7 and X8 will use, go through all eight Maverick stages in any order, and fight Gareth/Berkana and Sigma. There's no good reason for Extreme not to have been the normal mode.

[njiska]

I dunno man. I felt all the dick moves X6 pulled were a lot more intuitive than locking you in a room and throwing a bunch of popcorn enemies at you. X8's pacing just felt very sloppy; Burn Rooster's and Earthrock Trilobite's stages just make me plain sleepy, and for once I agree that the ride chaser stages were crap, and this is coming from someone who thought Squid Adler was the best part of X5. The only stages I thought were exceptional to X8 were Bamboo Pandamonium's and Optic Sunflower's. Far from the worst, but far from the best as well.

Locking you in a room with a bunch of badies to kill is boring and I won't dispute that. However, it's still not an outright frustrating experience like the nightmare system in X6. Never in X8 did I encounter a level that was unbeatable because of bullshit design and never did I come close to snaping my dual shock in half. In X6 it happened often. For example try beating the first part of Blizzard Wolfang's stage when you have holograms assaulting you. If the damage they inflict while you're hiding doesn't get you, falling off the ladder over the snowballs will. Yes, I do know that you can make the nightmare go away by going to other stages, but that's not the point. The game should never leave you in that fucked up a situation. On top of that I still maintain that the spike section is the first castle stage is still the ultimate in dickery.

Can anyone tell me if Command Mission is worth a look?

I think the battle system's a lot of fun. The characters and enemies are well-designed. If you're expecting to learn about and explore the world, though, you'll be disappointed. Command Mission's mostly isolated from the rest of the series, both geographically and plot-wise. Your new party members will bring up their issues and opponents will speechify on their philosophy until X cuts in: "Uh, that's interesting and all, but I'm here to kill Mavericks."

If the battle system is fun then I may give it a look. As I understand it the GBA version has extra functionality with the GBA link cable, right?

The Game Boy Color games haven't been mentioned in this thread yet. Xtreme is the only X game I don't like; in fact, I think it's total shit. Xtreme 2 isn't something I'd take over any of the main games, but it's pretty good, outside of the stupid multiple playthrough mechanic. Your first run will be as X and you'll only fight four Mavericks and Berkana, your second will be as Zero and you'll fight the other four Mavericks and Gareth. It's only after that you get to play "Extreme Mode," where you can switch between X and Zero with the same system X7 and X8 will use, go through all eight Maverick stages in any order, and fight Gareth/Berkana and Sigma. There's no good reason for Extreme not to have been the normal mode.

I've been having a really serious debate about playing the handheld side-series games; specifically Mega Man V and Mega Man Xtreme 2. The problem is that I'm really not sure if I want to extend my marathon any further than it already is. I mean I've played almost nothing but Mega Man games for the past four months. How long does it take to run all three playthroughs in Xtreme 2?

Update on Marathon:
Mega Man Zero: Very awkward game. The mission retry system combined with the steep difficulty and levels full of instant kills resulted in a lot of wasted time replaying levels. On top of that the game is full of bullshit grinding to level your weapons and feed cyber elves. Everything feels rough and unbalanced. I've actually been trying to play it for about a year, but could only now convince myself to knuckle down and finish it.

Mega Man Zero 2: Definitely took some steps in the right direction. Ditching the stupid mission system was one of the best decisions they could have made. Weapon leveling and crystal grinding is still there, but it's way, way more reasonable than the original. Far better platforming than in the original.

Mega Man Zero 3: So far this one has been my favourite. Weapon leveling is gone, elves can be upgraded to be satellites and used without hurting your rank. Brilliant. I love the throwbacks to the first game including the re-use of three mavericks, though it was weird to see Anubis is hurt by a different element. The second mid-stage where you face copy X is easily my favourite of the entire series. Something just feels so bad-ass about the spike platforming sections.

Mega Man Zero 4: Only about three Mavericks in, but so far I'm feeling a little let down by this one. The lack of elemental chips and hidden elves is just awkward. On top of that the game doesn't appear to have the four guardians and that's a real shame. Not sure how I feel about recipes yet.

Overall my biggest surprise with the Zero series has been how much I love the story. In the Classic and X series it's always felt like the plot was at best tacked on tie things together. In the Zero series it feels more substantial and I really love some of the characters like Leviathan and Harpuia.

[Mortificator]

The GC-GBA link doesn't add anything worthwhile to Command Mission. The game has tokens you can collect and redeem for gashapon of various characters and enemies. The GameCube version adds some more gashapon that are bought with tokens found on the GBA screen. A more significant difference is that the GC has shorter load times; the encounter rate was reduced on the PS2 to compensate.

I've been having a really serious debate about playing the handheld side-series games; specifically Mega Man V and Mega Man Xtreme 2. The problem is that I'm really not sure if I want to extend my marathon any further than it already is. I mean I've played almost nothing but Mega Man games for the past four months. How long does it take to run all three playthroughs in Xtreme 2?

If you're emulating or flashing the game, you could download a save with Extreme already unlocked.

Unlike Xtreme 2, where a big part of the appeal is fighting dudes like Flame Mammoth and Wire Sponge as Zero, I would take Mega Man V over some of the main games. You should definitely play it, but don't force yourself to do that RIGHT NOW if you're getting burnt out on the series. No matter how long you wait, the games will be ready.

[Moniker]

Have to concur on MMV. Haven't cleared it, but from what I've played, it deserves its place among the best of the classic series.

Megaman is a rare franchise indeed that you can go four months playing nothing else. I lasted about six weeks on my latest burn, which has been matched only by Diablo 2. Castlevania is the only other series that comes close. <3

[njiska]

The GC-GBA link doesn't add anything worthwhile to Command Mission. The game has tokens you can collect and redeem for gashapon of various characters and enemies. The GameCube version adds some more gashapon that are bought with tokens found on the GBA screen. A more significant difference is that the GC has shorter load times; the encounter rate was reduced on the PS2 to compensate.

I've been having a really serious debate about playing the handheld side-series games; specifically Mega Man V and Mega Man Xtreme 2. The problem is that I'm really not sure if I want to extend my marathon any further than it already is. I mean I've played almost nothing but Mega Man games for the past four months. How long does it take to run all three playthroughs in Xtreme 2?

If you're emulating or flashing the game, you could download a save with Extreme already unlocked.

Unlike Xtreme 2, where a big part of the appeal is fighting dudes like Flame Mammoth and Wire Sponge as Zero, I would take Mega Man V over some of the main games. You should definitely play it, but don't force yourself to do that RIGHT NOW if you're getting burnt out on the series. No matter how long you wait, the games will be ready.

No, I'm committed to doing this as one long run and so far i've made certain i own a copy of ever single game i've played (excepting Rockman and forte). Doesn't look like it'll cost me too much to pick up V or Xtreme 2, so I'll give them a look after ZX Advent.

Have to concur on MMV. Haven't cleared it, but from what I've played, it deserves its place among the best of the classic series.

Megaman is a rare franchise indeed that you can go four months playing nothing else. I lasted about six weeks on my latest burn, which has been matched only by Diablo 2. Castlevania is the only other series that comes close. <3

The real question now is which series do I tackle once my marathon is over?

[undamned]

Update on Marathon:
Mega Man Zero: Very awkward game. The mission retry system combined with the steep difficulty and levels full of instant kills resulted in a lot of wasted time replaying levels. On top of that the game is full of bullshit grinding to level your weapons and feed cyber elves. Everything feels rough and unbalanced. I've actually been trying to play it for about a year, but could only now convince myself to knuckle down and finish it.

Mega Man Zero 2: Definitely took some steps in the right direction. Ditching the stupid mission system was one of the best decisions they could have made. Weapon leveling and crystal grinding is still there, but it's way, way more reasonable than the original. Far better platforming than in the original.

Mega Man Zero 3: So far this one has been my favourite. Weapon leveling is gone, elves can be upgraded to be satellites and used without hurting your rank. Brilliant. I love the throwbacks to the first game including the re-use of three mavericks, though it was weird to see Anubis is hurt by a different element. The second mid-stage where you face copy X is easily my favourite of the entire series. Something just feels so bad-ass about the spike platforming sections.

Mega Man Zero 4: Only about three Mavericks in, but so far I'm feeling a little let down by this one. The lack of elemental chips and hidden elves is just awkward. On top of that the game doesn't appear to have the four guardians and that's a real shame. Not sure how I feel about recipes yet.

Overall my biggest surprise with the Zero series has been how much I love the story. In the Classic and X series it's always felt like the plot was at best tacked on tie things together. In the Zero series it feels more substantial and I really love some of the characters like Leviathan and Harpuia.

Speaking of which: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?th ... st-6689291
Wonder if it would be worth modding a GBA to work w/ that? Guess you could just multi mod it and use it on the GC w/ the GB player.
-ud

[njiska]

That is an absolutely beautiful stick. Definitely worth finding a way to use it with a GB player.

[Friendly]

[Estebang]

Bad Box Art Mega Man is right up there with "cake is a lie" and "arrow to the knee" as the least funny gaming joke there is.

[Moniker]

If Box Art Mega Man were in the 360 version I'd own it already. That ought to be the next incarnation of MM- that magnificent bloated specimen in a Viewtiful Joe type arrangement. I'm not entirely joking.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I agree with Estebang.

[njiska]

Ok, can someone explain basics the ZX series to me? I am extremely confused by this map layout.

[Ebbo]

The map in ZX just doesn't make sense. That's pretty much it. Besides that it's a decent game.

[njiska]

Cool, i think. I have been trying to get into it, but like Mega Man Zero it's taking me some time to adjust to the drastically different feel. Does ZX Advent follow the same formula with missions?

[StarCreator]

Cool, i think. I have been trying to get into it, but like Mega Man Zero it's taking me some time to adjust to the drastically different feel. Does ZX Advent follow the same formula with missions?

ZXA's missions work a bit differently in that you're teleported to the area you need to be in immediately upon accepting it IIRC.

[njiska]

Saturday's in the office are pretty slow, so I've been trying to get in more time with ZX. I have to say that the walking from point A to point B is getting really tedious and time consuming. It feels like there aren't teleportation trans servers as often as there should be. It's nice that everything is connected in a giant overworld, but I wish it worked like MMZ and just sent me to the correct starting point.

I've also been annoyed by the ridiculously low rate of health item drops by enemies. EC is common, but spent 2 minutes mining enemies before I got a single small health container.

[njiska]

I'm really trying to like ZX, but the more I play it, the more I'm starting to hate it. It just seems like so much of the game designed simply to waste your time and artificially extend its length. Walking everywhere already takes up a lot of time, but it takes even more when you have no idea what direction to head in. it'd be nice if the game did a better job of pointing you in the right direction. There's a lot of recovering old ground as well due to the lack of convient trans servers.

In addition to the map/mission system I'm also really getting fed up with the mavericks. The whole "weak spot damages biometal" thing specifically. It's just too god damn hard to not hit the weak spot on bosses like Fistleo and it get's really annoying, really fast to fuck up that lvl 4 victory with one stray hit. I'd have greatly preferred if they had used a different system to weaken the biometal, like having it take damage from elemental weaknesses, or just drop the whole system in it's entirety. I also find the Mavericks are relatively uninspired. This was already a problem for later MMZ games, but here they're just bland.

On the plus side I do love how the biometals turn you into different heroes. Getting a chance to essentially play as Harpuia is extremely satisfying. Still, it's not enough to motivate me to play more than extremely short sessions. Getting through this one is going to be a chore. I'm glad there's only two.

Can I expect more of the same from ZXA? I know Starcreator seemed to think the missions system worked better.

[Estebang]

I'm really trying to like ZX, but the more I play it, the more I'm starting to hate it. It just seems like so much of the game designed simply to waste your time and artificially extend its length.

Sums up all the Zero series games pretty nicely. They're would-be great successors to the Rockman X series bogged down by hours of grinding. It's like they're 25% really good Rockman game, 75% grindy timesink. Really a shame, because the level and boss designs are generally very good. EXE Transmission also suffers from this, to a surprisingly lesser extent.

I wonder if we'll see another reboot of the .EXE series like Shooting Star/Star Force on the 3DS. That seems to be the most likely second lease on life the Rockman franchise would get, even if it stays in Japan--I mean, the kids still love Pokemon, right? Man, the first three .EXE games were great, even if the series kind of stumbled after that...

[CStarFlare]

I don't recall grinding much in Zero (except maybe a few isolated incidents when I felt like it for a bit), but I played it on release and never again. I remember the end being really tough though. Wasn't grinding an optional thing to make the game easier for people who needed it?

[Estebang]

Grinding is all but a necessity in RMZ for those without the skills to play near-flawlessly 100% of the time. But once you get to the endgame, it's barely a help at all.

I mean, I was worse at games nine years ago than I am now, but that doesn't change the fact that RMZ1's Neo Arcadia Tower is still the hugest, most unwarranted difficulty spike I've ever seen in a platformer. Took me a year to beat the damned level! As a shmup player, I'm not normally one to whine about difficulty, but wow.

I should also mention that it's possible to forfeit and skip almost all of the game's missions--at least in the first RMZ--but missing out on the chips, elves and upgrades renders the necessary later stages practically impossible.

[StarCreator]

Can I expect more of the same from ZXA? I know Starcreator seemed to think the missions system worked better.

ZXA's map is a totally different beast - most of the areas are isolated from each other and only accessible via Trans Server, rather than being able to walk everywhere. And, again, IIRC, taking a mission automatically transports you to that mission's start point.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Man, the first three .EXE games were great, even if the series kind of stumbled after that...

So I take it you finally managed to beat Alpha?

[njiska]

Sums up all the Zero series games pretty nicely. They're would-be great successors to the Rockman X series bogged down by hours of grinding. It's like they're 25% really good Rockman game, 75% grindy timesink. Really a shame, because the level and boss designs are generally very good.

I wouldn't say the Zero series is super grindy, aside from the original game which is grind-tastic. It takes about 45 minutes to max level all weapons in MMZ and another 30 to get enough EC to level up the one truly useful Elf that doubles your vitality. MMZ2 only took about 20 mins to level all four weapons and reduced the cost of cyber elves ten-fold. 3/4 had no leveling at all and super cheap elf costs.

[Estebang]

I only ever found one reliable way of getting big crystal canisters in RMZ1, and that required running back and forth across a cleared stage over and over. So I really had no hope of ever getting the sub-tank and spike freeze elves--but I'm sure there's some FAQ somewhere explaining it.

Man, the first three .EXE games were great, even if the series kind of stumbled after that...

So I take it you finally managed to beat Alpha?

Yes, actually! It took a good deal of grinding and GameFAQsing to make a folder that could beat him, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. Already had plenty of practice with his attack patterns, of course. Finally put that one in the can.

I'm probably about halfway into 4, and I'm going to have to follow the popular consensus that it just isn't that good. Though I suppose I'm not in a place to make generalizations about the rest of the series, having not played 5/6/Star Force...do things improve any?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

In that case, congratulations! I've always thought Alpha was one of the harder endgame bosses myself. Easily my favorite. As for the others, the DS version of BN5 is often considered to be one of, if not, THE best EXE games. However, BN6 supposedly ends on a whimper rather than a bang. Though I haven't had the heart to play it and end the series for myself yet. ;_;
Network Transmission is really awesome too, and more people should play it.

[njiska]

I only ever found one reliable way of getting big crystal canisters in RMZ1, and that required running back and forth across a cleared stage over and over. So I really had no hope of ever getting the sub-tank and spike freeze elves--but I'm sure there's some FAQ somewhere explaining it.

I just ran back and forth between two Pantheons in the area from the first mission. In 30 mins they dropped the 3000 crystals I needed to double my vitality. I never bothered with any other elves in that game because it would take forever. The big difference between MMZ1 and 2 is that you have to reload saves in MMZ1, meaning the crystals you got between saves are lost. In MMZ2 you can just continue like a normal game and keep them. That way struggling players got the crystals they needed faster and without much grinding.

Oh and I will agree with you that Neo-Arcadia is a fucker to get through.