OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Bahn Yuki]

Just wanted to state I got the OSSC working with another screen with rgb scart. Line triple even works and looks incredible on my 4K Vizio tvs. What I find strange is that my Onkyo 636 won't pass the signal to the tv. Even if I bypass the video scaler by outputting video in the "sub" port.

I guess I'll have to use an hdmi switcher which is rather annoying since I don't know if the switcher will pass hdr and hdmi 2.0b signals. I plan on getting a GTX 1080 this weekend.

[akumajo]

Just wanted to state I got the OSSC working with another screen with rgb scart. Line triple even works and looks incredible on my 4K Vizio tvs. What I find strange is that my Onkyo 636 won't pass the signal to the tv. Even if I bypass the video scaler by outputting video in the "sub" port.

I guess I'll have to use an hdmi switcher which is rather annoying since I don't know if the switcher will pass hdr and hdmi 2.0b signals. I plan on getting a GTX 1080 this weekend.

Do you have a passthrough mode on your Onkyo ?
These HDMI issues are important and should be documented on wiki.

[BuckoA51]

These HDMI issues are important and should be documented on wiki.

Indeed I started building a compatibility chart for TVs/processors etc on the Google Docs spreadsheet, maybe this should be added or merged with what we have on the Wiki already.

Tested the 50 pro yesterday... works flawlessly with the OSSC, 6ms input lag from all sources, including the ones the Edge struggles with, and including line triple mode!

With the Genesis csync cable I just got, I get some jitter with the OSSC. Slightly annoying, any tips?

I get this on my Megadrive too, though it's massively improved from earlier firmwares. If I put the same MD into the Mini I see more noise and jitter on the image in places too though.

I see such a big variation in the video quality of Megadrives it's difficult to pin down. The whole lift the VDP pin and your jailbars will go away seems to be accepted around here, but I don't think it's that simple (on my machine they moved into grey instead of blue areas). I know Dan bought one of the small batch of MD RGB bypass amps I had made up and said that it made quite a difference to his machine, particularly eliminating picture noise on darker areas of the image, so perhaps that will help. I have a (so-far unsubstantiated) claim that those bypass amps negatively affect the 32x though, by shifting the overlaid graphics by 1 pixel, but I'm struggling to see how that can be.

[Xyga]

Tested the 50 pro yesterday... works flawlessly with the OSSC, 6ms input lag from all sources, including the ones the Edge struggles with, and including line triple mode!

I could have bet money on that. the 50 pro is so badass it could wear shades at all times.
Can't wait to test that combo myself (soon!)

[BuckoA51]

Has its share of problems too though. 288p line triple doesn't work (works fine on the Edge), and more damningly 240p to 480i transitions don't work at all, resulting in "no signal" until OSSC is rebooted.

Haven't tried the final firmware on the 50 pro yet so I'll have a full write up soon.

[Fudoh]

and - once you get a chance - a comparison in behaviour between HDMI and RGBHV would be great of course!

You could also try if the resolution transitions work if you unlock the framerate instead. Not ideal for any action title, but it would save a lot RPGs and other types of games.

[Xyga]

Haven't tried the final firmware on the 50 pro yet so I'll have a full write up soon.

Yes maybe that'll change a lot of things, it did for me, not in regards to transitions but in overall compatibility and stability.

[ChemicalB]

Looking good. First posting in order to pm about diy kit.

[BuckoA51]

Interesting finds:-

Adding a HDMI splitter between OSSC and 50 Pro makes transitions work, so I suspect it's transitioning that fast the 50 pro gets confused. This ups the time to 4 to 5 seconds per transition.

Using RGBHV also fixes the transitions, at the cost of picture quality maybe, certainly for me (something in my setup is injecting noise into some analogue sources, but given the complexity of it at the moment that's hardly surprising. Would rip it all out and redo it one rainy afternoon/week but hoping to move later in the year/early next anyway).

When using RGBHV, unlocking the output makes some transitions be instant, but then every so often it goes back to 5 seconds again.

[akumajo]

Interesting finds:-

Adding a HDMI splitter between OSSC and 50 Pro makes transitions work, so I suspect it's transitioning that fast the 50 pro gets confused. This ups the time to 4 to 5 seconds per transition.

Using RGBHV also fixes the transitions, at the cost of picture quality maybe, certainly for me (something in my setup is injecting noise into some analogue sources, but given the complexity of it at the moment that's hardly surprising. Would rip it all out and redo it one rainy afternoon/week but hoping to move later in the year/early next anyway).

When using RGBHV, unlocking the output makes some transitions be instant, but then every so often it goes back to 5 seconds again.

yes, hdmi is key but I think most important device is the display. my projector is 100% stable and my lcd sometimes is lost (black screen).

In my case, I still dont understand why 240p>480i switching works fine (no desync) on my setup with 2 games (dracula x, biohazard) and not with Virtua Fighter

also works fine with '"problematic" PuLiRuLa intro (240p only)

Virtua Fighter 2 Intro / Demo boot process
step1 : title screen 480i > ok
step2 : gameplay demo 480i > ok
step3 : title screen 480i > ok
step4 : full motion video 240p > sync issue
step5 : now loading screen 480i > sync issue
step6 : title screen 480i

[Koston]

Is there any info on the price range OSSC will fall into? I can solder DIY kits if that helps bringing the price down, I would need at least a few units for my arcade cabinet projects.

You can PM me about DIY kits. Since you're from around here, it's possible to save on shipping costs. If you're planning to fit one inside arcade cabinet, then you don't need case either which reduces the price by ~10 EUR.

Thanks, picked up two OSSC kits. Turns out marqs used to be an intern a few years back where I work; small world.

[Fudoh]

Using RGBHV also fixes the transitions, at the cost of picture quality maybe, certainly for me (something in my setup is injecting noise into some analogue sources, but given the complexity of it at the moment that's hardly surprising.

what D/A converter did you use ? If connected to the 50Pro directly I doubt that you would see any difference. The DVDO's analogue inputs are very good. I'll give it a try myself asap.

[BuckoA51]

I was using a HD Fury 2. My VGA to RGBHV BNC cable is possibly at fault (it's the old DVDO edge one with some BNC adapters, and an extension where it used to plug into my SLG).

[marqs]

Interesting finds:-

Adding a HDMI splitter between OSSC and 50 Pro makes transitions work, so I suspect it's transitioning that fast the 50 pro gets confused. This ups the time to 4 to 5 seconds per transition.

Using RGBHV also fixes the transitions, at the cost of picture quality maybe, certainly for me (something in my setup is injecting noise into some analogue sources, but given the complexity of it at the moment that's hardly surprising. Would rip it all out and redo it one rainy afternoon/week but hoping to move later in the year/early next anyway).

When using RGBHV, unlocking the output makes some transitions be instant, but then every so often it goes back to 5 seconds again.

yes, hdmi is key but I think most important device is the display. my projector is 100% stable and my lcd sometimes is lost (black screen).

In my case, I still dont understand why 240p>480i switching works fine (no desync) on my setup with 2 games (dracula x, biohazard) and not with Virtua Fighter

also works fine with '"problematic" PuLiRuLa intro (240p only)

Virtua Fighter 2 Intro / Demo boot process
step1 : title screen 480i > ok
step2 : gameplay demo 480i > ok
step3 : title screen 480i > ok
step4 : full motion video 240p > sync issue
step5 : now loading screen 480i > sync issue
step6 : title screen 480i

Could VF2 use an unusual line count in the interalace mode? I just checked that Hi-Vision modes output 561 lines total, so could some games output something else than the usual 525 in normal interlace mode? Maybe you could post the info screen data, especially LO number, while in VF2 interlace mode?

[marqs]

Just wanted to state I got the OSSC working with another screen with rgb scart. Line triple even works and looks incredible on my 4K Vizio tvs. What I find strange is that my Onkyo 636 won't pass the signal to the tv. Even if I bypass the video scaler by outputting video in the "sub" port.

Could it be that your Onkyo doesn't like slightly off-spec refresh rates or line counts? PS2 in the system menu should output very compatible 480i, though, so that should work with pretty much any output device.

[Das Muel]

Just received mine this morning and have been playing with it for most of the day. The performance with my pc crt is MAGNIFICENT. Not content with being by far the best line doubler I've ever used, it also has the gall to be by far the best transcoder I've ever used too. As much as I love the little guy, my XRGB-2 has been completely and utterly smoked. I'd pretty much given up on using all my sources with the one crt without major compromises, but Marqs has gone ahead and done it.

PS2/1, Saturn, N64, Xbox, Wii are all fantastic. Even my Sega model 1/2/3 boards ran flawlessly with a barely a touch of the remote (with beautifully crisp, medium-res scanlines no less). The only system which has been even remotely problematic is my very early model 1 Japanese Mega Drive with a C-sync cable, but the sync issues are minor and I've barely even tweaked the settings yet anyway. Performance with my Panasonic plasma + XPC-4 combo was also excellent, although I get tired of fiddling around trying to get evenly spaced scanlines with the XPC-4, so I'll be using it primarily with the crt.

Marqs - you are the wind beneath my wings and you have single-handedly cemented my vote to remain in the EU. Many, many thanks (even though you sent me the wrong colour).

[Xyga]

Marqs - you are the wind beneath my wings and you have single-handedly cemented my vote to remain in the EU. Many, many thanks (even though you sent me the wrong colour).

He's avanged Nokia also.

[akumajo]

Interesting finds:-

Adding a HDMI splitter between OSSC and 50 Pro makes transitions work, so I suspect it's transitioning that fast the 50 pro gets confused. This ups the time to 4 to 5 seconds per transition.

Using RGBHV also fixes the transitions, at the cost of picture quality maybe, certainly for me (something in my setup is injecting noise into some analogue sources, but given the complexity of it at the moment that's hardly surprising. Would rip it all out and redo it one rainy afternoon/week but hoping to move later in the year/early next anyway).

When using RGBHV, unlocking the output makes some transitions be instant, but then every so often it goes back to 5 seconds again.

yes, hdmi is key but I think most important device is the display. my projector is 100% stable and my lcd sometimes is lost (black screen).

In my case, I still dont understand why 240p>480i switching works fine (no desync) on my setup with 2 games (dracula x, biohazard) and not with Virtua Fighter

also works fine with '"problematic" PuLiRuLa intro (240p only)

Virtua Fighter 2 Intro / Demo boot process
step1 : title screen 480i > ok
step2 : gameplay demo 480i > ok
step3 : title screen 480i > ok
step4 : full motion video 240p > sync issue
step5 : now loading screen 480i > sync issue
step6 : title screen 480i

Could VF2 use an unusual line count in the interalace mode? I just checked that Hi-Vision modes output 561 lines total, so could some games output something else than the usual 525 in normal interlace mode? Maybe you could post the info screen data, especially LO number, while in VF2 interlace mode?

sure

Virtua Fighter 2 Intro / Demo boot process (linedoubler mode)
480i signal : RGBS 525i 15.73Hz 59.94Hz
240p signal : RGBS 263p 15.73Hz 59.82Hz
step1 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok
step2 : gameplay demo (480i 525 1) > ok
step3 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok
step4 : full motion video (240p 526 0) > resync
step5 : now loading screen (480i 525 1) > resync
step6 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok

Akumajo Dracula X (linedoubler mode)
240p signal : RGBS 263p 15.73Hz 59.82Hz
480i signal : RGBS 525i 15.73Hz 59.94Hz
step1 : ingame (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 : menu (480i 525 1) > ok
step3 : ingame 240p 526 0) > ok

Akumajo Dracula X (linetriple mode)
step1 : ingame (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 : menu (480i 525 1) > resync
step3 : ingame 240p 526 0) > ok

Until now, i was focusing only with ingame switching for Dracula X.
I just noticed this :
INTRO SWITCH (when starting a new game)
step1 start new game (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 full motion video (240p 526 0) > resync
step3 ingame (240p 526 0) > ok

"ingame" switching 240p<>480i seems fine
but same scenario with an FMV seems not (as shown with VF2 and DraculaX)
I'm not sure if it's an OSSC problem, how does it looks like with a CRT ?

[akumajo]

same tests with Dracula X on PS1

240p signal : RGBS 263p 15.58Hz 59.27Hz

INTRO SWITCH
step1 start new game (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 fmv (240p 526 0) > ok
step3 ingame (240p 526 0) > ok

INGAME SWITCHING
step1 : ingame (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 : menu (240p 526 0) > ok
step3 : ingame (240p 526 0) > ok

linetriple mode is fine too ! unlike saturn version

like I said, linetriple mode should be avoided with "switching" games

[Das Muel]

This may or may not be a silly question Marqs - is it possible to get XRGB-2 style alternating scanlines for use with "true" 480i material?

[rtw]

Did a bit more testing and it looks like my SONY TVs are a bit picky ...

NEOGEO, 264p, 15.62kHz 59.2Hz

I don't know if it's the frequency or amount of scanlines, but is it possible to mask off a line at the top and bottom so I would only output 262p ?

The NEOGEO works 100% on my EIZO FlexScan EV2450-BK (Even in linetriple mode).

[jandrogo]

It would be great posting pics of displays+ossc and listing monitor/tv models and specs to build a database of common issues or best setups

Waiting my OSSC in the second batch

[BuckoA51]

I've already started something like that on the compatibility spreadsheet. I think perhaps we need to discuss how best to proceed with that though, a spreadsheet anyone can edit might get messed up quickly.

[Yohanov]

Just received mine this morning and have been playing with it for most of the day. The performance with my pc crt is MAGNIFICENT.

Hi, can I ask you which hdmi>vga adapter are you using ?

Also feel free to post some pictures because I believe we haven't had any from a PC CRT yet ^^

[Bahn Yuki]

https://youtu.be/EDk-odsiJSoFirst Look

[marqs]

Virtua Fighter 2 Intro / Demo boot process (linedoubler mode)
480i signal : RGBS 525i 15.73Hz 59.94Hz
240p signal : RGBS 263p 15.73Hz 59.82Hz
step1 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok
step2 : gameplay demo (480i 525 1) > ok
step3 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok
step4 : full motion video (240p 526 0) > resync
step5 : now loading screen (480i 525 1) > resync
step6 : title screen (480i 525 1) > ok

Okay, it's the usual 525 line interlace so nothing special there. Maybe the game is switching a few time in succession between the steps which could cause the display resync.

Akumajo Dracula X (linetriple mode)
step1 : ingame (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 : menu (480i 525 1) > resync
step3 : ingame 240p 526 0) > ok

(240p 526 0) doesn't look like it's in linetriple mode. It should be something like (240p_L3M1 789 0).

INTRO SWITCH (when starting a new game)
step1 start new game (240p 526 0) > ok
step2 full motion video (240p 526 0) > resync
step3 ingame (240p 526 0) > ok

Here the game probably changes to interlace and immediately back to non-interlace or something like that.

linetriple mode is fine too ! unlike saturn version

like I said, linetriple mode should be avoided with "switching" games

Yeah, PSX version does seem to be stuck with 240p which then makes it more compatible with scalers etc. You cannot avoid resync when switching between linedouble and linetriple since the output mode is so different - best monitors I've seen can resync in around 1 sec, though.

This may or may not be a silly question Marqs - is it possible to get XRGB-2 style alternating scanlines for use with "true" 480i material?

You mean scanlines that switch their offset every field? Certainly possible, but why would you prefer such for true 480i material? BTW, I just noticed a typo in the code that does break "scanline id"-option.

NEOGEO, 264p, 15.62kHz 59.2Hz

I don't know if it's the frequency or amount of scanlines, but is it possible to mask off a line at the top and bottom so I would only output 262p ?

The NEOGEO works 100% on my EIZO FlexScan EV2450-BK (Even in linetriple mode).

Yeah, I bet the problem is that your Sony accepts only 525+-1 lines in 480p mode (2*264=528). You might want to verify that with a PC if you have a setup where you can easily define a custom modeline. Unfortunately it's not possible for a linedoubler to just drop of insert lines of identical lenght in the signal.

[Fudoh]

You mean scanlines that switch their offset every field? Certainly possible, but why would you prefer such for true 480i material?

yes, we'd like that it's one of the features that got lost with the transition from the XRGB-3 to the Framemeister. It would be great to have the option to choose between which way the scanlines are rendered. There are enough titles which have originally been 240p, but are output in 480i and these - of course - require the classic scanlines. But for true 480i titles "interlaced scanlines" are a great thing to have.

Yeah, I bet the problem is that your Sony accepts only 525+-1 lines in 480p mode (2*264=528).

we (as in somebody with a recent Sony TV) should try if using component instead of HDMI would show a better compatibility - possibly even work with the linetripling mode.

[rtw]

Yeah, I bet the problem is that your Sony accepts only 525+-1 lines in 480p mode (2*264=528).

we (as in somebody with a recent Sony TV) should try if using component instead of HDMI would show a better compatibility - possibly even work with the linetripling mode.

Thanks for the information marqs!

How can I try component on my Sony ? AFAIK the OSSC does not output component ?

[Xyga]

You need another transcoder in the chain...

[rtw]

You need another transcoder in the chain...

Thanks Xyga, a bit thin on transcoders here though