The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[DrTrouserPlank]

The only thing worse than playing shmups in general is going back to one you used to be good at and finding that you are basically stating from scratch. Aside from knowing how to deal with a few of the sequences it's just pure frustration; mistake after mistake and having to re-learn the whole thing again.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I played Mushihime Futari Maniac 1.5 yesterday for the first time in six months and ALMOST got to the boss of stage 4 with no problem. Yet I don't really feel like giving the game all that much more effort because of how much scoring you need to do in order to get the two extends. Why not just make it so the 2 extends happen organically even if you're just playing for survival

Maniac is a bit unusual in that the gap between starting the game and getting the first extend is actually bigger than the score gap between the first and second extend. Because of this, if you're good enough to get the first score extend you can focus less on scoring and you'll still be pretty much assured to get the second one by the end of stage 5 thanks to the lantern section (popping most of the lanterns will give you a ton of points and net you that extend by then). Just deal with having one fewer score extend earlier on and expect to get it in stage 5.

[SuperSoaker360]

Steam indie game sale going on earlier this week so I quickly grabbed the Gundemonium Collection and Jamestown and I'm slowly crunching through them one at a time.

I've only played Gundemonium Recollection at the moment and I'm nearing 12 hours of gameplay. Pretty fun game, I'm enjoying it but the final Matrix Master has such RNG bullshit.

And then I fucking snapped while doing runs to clear Ain Soph Aur mode.
Randomly generated level segments and randomly selected bosses.
I mean, who in the actual fuck.

And only certain bosses give life extends too. So I can completely luck out and get the same boss that drops the extend like three fucking times in a row and have a nice smooth run, or I can end up doing a run where I never get any extends because those specific bosses never appear.

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually love RNG in single player games. Maybe that's just cause I've been traumatized by stuff like Mega Man Zero, where everything is so static that you can beat the game once and it'll never be challenging ever again, because everything is drilled into muscle memory.

The only thing worse than playing shmups in general is going back to one you used to be good at and finding that you are basically stating from scratch. Aside from knowing how to deal with a few of the sequences it's just pure frustration; mistake after mistake and having to re-learn the whole thing again.

I've actually had the opposite experience, where I go back to a shmup years later and find myself doing more or less just as well, sometimes even better. Like I recently returned to Axelay after not having touched it for 6 years (and I wasn't really that dedicated to it when I first played through it) and found myself 1cc'ing up to the end of the last stage on hard mode my first try. Same with R-Type III, where I was surprised to find myself clearing stages with even less trial and error then before.

It sounds like you play a lot of bullet hell shmups, but they might not be your thing. Have you tried more traditional, reflex focused games like Gradius or Rayforce?

[pestro87]

Maybe that's just cause I've been traumatized by stuff like Mega Man Zero, where everything is so static that you can beat the game once and it'll never be challenging ever again

I'm a pretty big Mega Man fan but I have to admit that this is kinda true. I even managed to beat Mega Man 10 from start to finish without getting hit once (as denoted by the Mr. Perfect achievement)...:

[Chaos Phoenixma]

The Ain Soph Aur randomness is why I never bothered to actually clear the mode.

It doesn't help that you can't practice stage X/XX/XXX (X/Y/Z on the leaderboard) without having to go through the entire mode first.

It didn't help with the randomness in getting the full 5 max lives, the fact that some stage parts going into other stage parts just seemed impossible. And unlike Karen and Mio in Matrix Orders mode, the fight in Ain Soph Aur doesn't give you invincibility at the start and throws a solid wall at you forcing you to die or bomb.


And I'm not even sure if the guy planned for it to be cleared since the play order is for reaching X instead of getting an All. But I just couldn't be bothered to try to finish it.

So good luck if you actually go for it.

[SuperSoaker360]

So good luck if you actually go for it.

Already did with Eryth. It's just a ludicrous mode, trying to get that one run where you just so happen to not have very many bumps on the road.

Stay tuned for any possible gripes sometime down the week when I try out GundeadliGne.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

well I can save you some trouble in that if you're going to go for Advanced/Demonic, just use nagi. The other characters are almost impossible to clear with on those modes.

Demonic Challenge in it is fun though, assuming you don't cheese everything with Nagi. I might attempt to get all the Demonic Challenges without her sometime, but I have no idea how you'd handle a few of the fights without her(Babelforge for Eryth/Elixirel or El Dorada for Eryth). I think I might have gotten El Dorada with Elixirel, but I can't check because I don't have Steam or the game available on the computer i'm currently using.

[Squire Grooktook]

From what I tried of her, Nagi is boring.

I did see someone clear demonic with a character other then her though once.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I knew there was an Eryth clear on the Steam leaderboard with autobomb active. Even with autobomb, the stuff you'd have to dodge and the suicide bullets.

I wouldn't mind seeing a replay of it, but it's a bit of a pain to try to deal with it in actual play.

[hail good sir]

my

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Despite the fact that it's regarded as a generally bad shmup, I actually kind of like Aegis Wing (helps that it's free!). It's a lot more fun in multiplayer than single player, though... especially in the unforgiving Insane (which is pretty much intended for multiplayer where you'd keep respawning dead people).

[O. Van Bruce]

the feel when you think you are finally dissecting Ketsui and the popcorn surprises you with a bullet from behind or shooting when they normally don't.

How many times I've died or lost concentration from one popcorn bullet I don't expect? It's even worse considering I'm trying to loop the game so I've imposed myself a no-bomb policy, just in case I wanna get Ura after Tsuujou. Every life counts...

[BIL]

COTTON BOOMERANG AND OTHER FATTY SATURN CD CASES MAKING ME RUN OUT OF SHELF SPACE :[ :[ :[

Oh, on topic:

THE GAMES IMPOSSIBLE
YOU GET SO FAR AND THEN YOU DIE
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ;] ;] ;]

[zeroroute]

The only thing worse than playing shmups in general is going back to one you used to be good at and finding that you are basically stating from scratch. Aside from knowing how to deal with a few of the sequences it's just pure frustration; mistake after mistake and having to re-learn the whole thing again.

That's how I am at some retro games these days, used to be good or decent at 'em, then suddenly, I dust them off and end up playing terribly.

[Squire Grooktook]

Aimed suicide bullets that don't get sealed by close proximity.

Strania expert is tough.

[RNGmaster]

Hahahaha you'll love Psikyo loops then. GB2 and DB are like that but you have to be at close range to kill shit before it floods the screen in purple. Fun fun fun.

[Squire Grooktook]

I can't wait :)

[KitesAreFun]

When your ship doesn't maintain the same speed in all directions.

[SuperSoaker360]

GundeadliGne.

I've only sunk half an hour into this game and immediately there's something I don't like. At first I thought the slow-movement button was broken, but it turns out that you actually have to hold it down and it activates 1-2 seconds after. Not very input-friendly, especially for one who flail dodges like a maniac.
I might have to play without using slow-movement at all since its delay is really throwing me off now.

[BIL]

BATSUGUN HAS A BIG CASE TOO

GAHHHHHHHHHHH

[TLB]

I was just thinking lately: I hate how you actually have to use your hands. These games are for babies.

[trap15]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMy1zO8m8sM

[Obscura]

Black Heart Mk 1.

Seriously, WTF. After a fight where I'm shooting him the entire fucking time, at max shot power, he times out. I try to bomb the time out attack, but it kills me anyways, game over.

So fucking pissed at this boss. I've been stuck there for four fucking months. The asshole doesn't die at all, fucking ever, and that's even if you somehow miraculously survive that retarded sweeping vulcan.

[Hagane]

Have you read the guide in the strategy forum? It gives you detailed strats for the sweeping vulcan. It's not that hard with proper knowledge on how it behaves.

Also, what ship and shot type are you using? Are you doing rank control or did you just pick every item you could up to him? I never had the boss time out with Gain/Miyamoto.

[trap15]

His wings don't damage him. You have to shoot the center.

[TransatlanticFoe]

BATSUGUN HAS A BIG CASE TOO

GAHHHHHHHHHHH

Mine has broken teeth and you can't buy replacement cases from anywhere.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[BIL]

Can't you just swap everything over to a generic standard jewel case? >_> That's what I'd do with all my Saturn fatties if I had any spares about.

[Quantium]

DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 -

THE ENTIRE 5TH STAGE! There is NOTHING fun or enjoyable about this level, and I dread completing stage 4 because I know it's coming. Nevermind that near the middle it goes in circles with all those stupid laser arrays, then you get to the boss, and she SUCKS TOO! Her voice is annoying, her patterns are crap, and its just all a disappointment. Ok, that was it.

[Obscura]

Have you read the guide in the strategy forum? It gives you detailed strats for the sweeping vulcan. It's not that hard with proper knowledge on how it behaves.

Also, what ship and shot type are you using? Are you doing rank control or did you just pick every item you could up to him? I never had the boss time out with Gain/Miyamoto.

It was a Golden Bat credit, done in a "very few power-ups, no medals" style.

Usually, I use Gain and do a "score and suicide" style, but had just had a bunch of awful credits, so I decided to do something a bit different to help re-focus.

And, yes, I do know how the sweeping vulcan chooses directions. The difficulty isn't in the time when the stream starts moving, it's when it's near the end of its sweep and the streams are going closer to horizontal.

His wings don't damage him. You have to shoot the center.

Did not know that. That explains a lot, and really worries me, since the only way I can consistently deal with his afterburners is to macrododge the attack when he comes down instead of staying in between them, and since I deal with his spreads by misdirecting them sharply instead of tap-dodging through them.