Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sengoku Strider]

I have a cart-only copy of Alien Soldier, it's the most expensive game I own. I'm saving it for the end of my journey through my MD collection, it seems lime the kind of thing that can only fully be appreciated as a capstone.

[BIL]

One of a small handful of games I took with me on a thankfully soon-to-end overseas contract, the others being The Ninja Warriors Again and Gimmick. All distinctly console-tempered masterpieces of 1ALL game design. Much as I treasure the M2+Hamster arcade catalogue that came out of nowhere this past gen-and-counting, and will undoubtedly be chipping away at it decades from now, it's ultimately this vintage of high-end console action game I'd take to a desert island. Medium-high survival difficulty with ultra-refined mechanics and SUPERHIGH performance ceilings.

[Air Master Burst]

One of a small handful of games I took with me on a thankfully soon-to-end overseas contract, the others being The Ninja Warriors Again and Gimmick

Please tell me you took 3 seperate dedicated consoles to play them on, too, because that would be amazing.

[BIL]

One of a small handful of games I took with me on a thankfully soon-to-end overseas contract, the others being The Ninja Warriors Again and Gimmick

Please tell me you took 3 seperate dedicated consoles to play them on, too, because that would be amazing.

Yep. Old soldiers from way back in the early 00s, Famicom bought yellow AF. (cart slots are clean as all hell though, I am very picky about that!). Well, technically they never left my tiny flat, nor did my auld CRTs. Also my TRVE #1 soldier, a random PAL N64 with a stack of loose carts inc. OOT, Wrasslemania 2000, and mahfuckin Double O. Still gets everybody going!

[Sumez]

Got my 1CC of Crime City down. Documented all my time with the game on Twitch, so I can tell it took me only 5 hours to get it down from the first time I touched the game.
Very enjoyable game regardless, and the last couple of stages really up the chaos. I'd be interested in trying it out on a higher difficulty setting in lieu of additional loops - or maybe even going for a "no gun" run, which should be possible if you don't count the grenades which you can get to damage the final boss. The game actually records the number of shots you fired on the saved high score, so it would be interesting to aim for a zero.

[BIL]

Congrats! The shot tracker does sound interesting. Progressive policing - don't blast crims, just Blanka them to death instead.

[Sengoku Strider]

Oh my Buddha the fourth stage of Kujaku Ou 2 is some hateful platforming.

[BIL]

Yep! Back II tha OLD SCHOOL And by that I mean Holy Diver like a year earlier.

---

I find format wars gauche and trifling. Protip, FC+AC Ninja Ryukenden were developed simultaneously by separate teams at Tecmo. And the console game was first to release in Japan! That's why the JP board's intro says "1989 STRONG TEAM," despite the in-game graffiti reading 1988. But regardless, what kind of godless animal couldn't enjoy both works? They're not even remotely similar, come on bros. That's TWO classic games from a great house at the height of its powers!

So I never did the whole "real version" thing. But holy fuck, having nomissed it, I think I understand why AC loyalists were always so buttmad @ my gaily FC-centric ass, over the years. Every other comment I see is slagging it off as "clunky" or similar. If you think this game is clunky, you're almost certainly picking chunks of furniture out of your face! It's laser-precise on attack and evasion alike. This is a boxer, not a brawler! No-hit play is not the fanciful herring of Technos/Konami/Capcom, to name three great belt contemporaries, but the ideal you must pursue in order to survive.

If you're getting snuffed, you're probably entering the enemy's striking range before launching your attack. You can do this, with sharp timing. Much cooler than letting them come to you! Feels rad! But if you're slow, you'll eat their chambered strike like a mahfuckin chicken wing. You and they both have Big Windups, you see - and theirs is revving the instant you enter range. Stay clear unless you've got a plan! You have a very agile 8way run for this, hit [up] or [down] to slip the incoming face rearranger. The regular ol' [jump] is powerful, too! If you're truly cornered, use the [up+jump] escape!

Trust me it works I swear. Look, here is a convenient micro-illustration of enemy alert phases, vs LUCHAS and BIG BOIS, the game's respectively fastest and rangiest regulars. J-KUN has a slow windup you can easily evade or even punish, while TONFA OTAKU isn't here, but he's a nasty prick second only to BIG BOI in reach.

Episode of Tactical Violence with Commentary Attached (■｀w´■)

1) Would-be backstab gets bodybagged n' tagged via FLYING GUILLOTINE (｀w´メ)
2) But now, his buddy's ready to put his shoe ROIGHT UP ME FOOKIN ARSE M8 (◎w◎;)
3) It's a good job we have that Rolling Thunder Ougi! 凸（＾w´ ）凸 Or is it Shaolin's Road? Maybe even Ninja-kun, progressively more apropos! A venerable constellation of classic mid-80s jams via messrs. Kishimoto-sama and STRONG SHIMA

Even ReplayBurner-san used my full run's dickcheese SCURRED trick - a consoling camaraderie, but I must avenge. Resisting man's bestial urge to destroy, and instead leaving your furniture intact is a rich tactical seam in many games!

(I wonder if the Tier Switching Superjump™ being one-way-only was a deliberate balance, or if they just said "hm that's neat, let 'em have it, like fuck are we animating a downward ver though!" A blast of evading speed, but you better have a plan! With the customary finesse of Tecmo's AC guys, I could imagine it being a bit of both - a two-way superjump really would leave the enemies stranded. ZERO TEAM lets you go both ways, but that is a very different - yet similarly excellent - game!)

I'm also mystified by claims it's a credit-feeder. Like its sibling Wild Fang, it has checkpoints on continues. Pretty harsh ones; the last stage demands you do the whole thing with no guaranteed swords, only one sure HP drop that's too early to help much, and an Extend that novices will be bludgeoned attempting to reach. I was pleasantly surprised!

(Wild Fang seems to take a page out of Kyuukyoku Tiger's book, with your restart point slipping further and further back if you fail to advance )

Did they savestate through modern releases / MAME? Or did they simply not finish the game? A mystery best consigned to "99% of mainstream commentators are numbnuts nostalgia chumps who can't find their asses - or a 1CC! - with both hands and a map," methinks.



"Hello, 911? A 'retro gaming enthusiast' just got his ass beat like a rug outside my house! No I think he still breathin, either that or he's using his last breaths to talk shit on youtube"

Your humble Hard Gayming Fren will most certainly give STRONG TEAM's duo his best DBPS endeavour! You can never take the fundamentals for granted. Historically, a lot of fuckups have resulted!

Now, while their appraisal was trash, I do appreciate TCRF as always for pointing out the NA version has a much nastier final stage, on account of the boosted damage scale. Holy moly! The Nostradamus theme isn't just for show - they predicted Ninja Gaiden III! I thought "Sheeit, now I'm extra-ashamed of my wiener run." BUT THEN, I remembered I only took one hit in the final stage, and it wasn't from the instakilling final boss, so I'd have been fine.

Unlike NGIII, which regains its standing in the trilogy, JP sounds superior here. Game's already tense enough, between its small lifebar, vicious punishers, and sparse HP drops. Near the borderline of trading its brawler physicality for something more akin to 1HKOs. Holding back keeps it in satisfyingly visceral territory. Eating a single clean hit absolutely will put you on your back, but that's what them shinobi feets are for.

[samspot]

I tried AC NG just a year ago due to my love of the FC version. This was before my eyes were open to the positives of arcade style games. I played it for 5 minutes and wrote it off as a trashy cash-in on the brand from the FC game. It felt so slow and stiff compared to the raw agility on FC. And Ryu kills dudes in one hit, not multiple punches and kicks!

But the clips you showed made me reconsider it. Some games really build to something cool like this, but they have trouble showing the player that it’s worth sticking around. I just fed my way through this one and it was actually a lot of fun!

It makes me wonder if all the games I thought were bad were because I didn’t give them enough of a go. Keep on recommending things you love and people like me will give them a real shot!

[Air Master Burst]

It makes me wonder if all the games I thought were bad were because I didn’t give them enough of a go. Keep on recommending things you love and people like me will give them a real shot!

Well, there are still far more bad arcade games out there than good ones, but don't worry; the previous 450 pages of this thread are an excellent place to start!

There are also a few other threads around for other niche genres, like character action, srpgs, and so on.

[BulletMagnet]

I'm not personally familiar with Ninja Slayer, but it's getting a side-scroller.

[Sumez]

Is that an anime or something? I can't be too excited for a game this afraid of actually showing off its gameplay.

[BIL]

I tried AC NG just a year ago due to my love of the FC version. This was before my eyes were open to the positives of arcade style games. I played it for 5 minutes and wrote it off as a trashy cash-in on the brand from the FC game. It felt so slow and stiff compared to the raw agility on FC. And Ryu kills dudes in one hit, not multiple punches and kicks!

But the clips you showed made me reconsider it. Some games really build to something cool like this, but they have trouble showing the player that it’s worth sticking around. I just fed my way through this one and it was actually a lot of fun!

Glad you got some more out of it! FWIW I don't think that's canonically Ryu, just a hired gun on a working vacation. I like to headcanon the FC games as a movie trilogy, and the AC one as the stuntmen goofing around on their off days. Or maybe the AC one was Ryu's training contract? Although nah, that'd ruin the emotional payoff of NG1's ending.

Ryu, you are a man now. (;｀w´;)

Plus I never pegged Ryu as a smooth operator. "Just a girl. Get out of here! Hey wait no OH GOD" *bang* AC bro woulda had her sitting on his lap at the blackjack table within the hour.

Ultimately they don't conflict in my mind any more than the five games called Akumajou Dracula.

I had an advantage going into AC NG, having heard for decades from trusted peeps that it's quality work, sometimes while being called a fraud for having only played the home ones. (in my defense, I bought NG Black specifically for it) Additionally, I've been playing a lot of Tecmo's arcade canon since getting into ACA. Consistently excellent. So I wasn't surprised when NG proved as good as Rygar, Star Force, Senyjo, or a dozen others. All of 'em land on a sweet spot of arcade immediacy, rich mechanical detailing, and vivid personality. (even stoic gunmetal Star Force and Senjyo are unmistakably affectionate works, to say nothing of raucous Ninja Gaiden and Wild Fang) Strongest pound-for-pound catalogue on ACA, imo.

[Air Master Burst]

Strongest pound-for-pound catalogue on ACA, imo.

Gotta be either Tecmo or Taito. Konami and Namco have too much chaff to compete, and Irem is still missing too many heavy hitters.

[BIL]

Irem would easily be in contention for #1 with more M72s and M92s; even their earlier stuff is generally solid, Moon Patrol being my pick for clear winner. Dunno if Piston Nishiyama's other masterpiece Spartan X ever had a chance, but man I'd be happy if they just cloned over Kung Fu Master's title screen.

It's a goddamn shame they drifted off, really. Can't complain too much I guess, a little of them goes a long way. Saigo no Nindou is one of the few games I unambiguously put on my desert island list of ten; inexhaustible balance of strategy and chaos. And the only M92 I'd want more than Kaitei Daisensou is Geostorm. Although five others popped into my head typing that. I'm just happy Tecmo's still around, from back when Technos/SNK/IREM were regulars. Well, technically before then, with Rygar being an ACA launch title.

Speaking of ACA, Warrior Blade seems confirmed. I knew there was a silver lining to Rastan II's arrival! Honestly, I'm not sure Rastan II is even as bad as people say... I can absolutely believe it is, just seems marginally playable from videos, and the audio is stunning. Will have to fire up MAME for a quick spin. Have to say, the main character sprite is brutally unfortunate-looking. What the fuck happened OG Rastan is one of the most authentically Howardesque designs ever, a lean hungry killer. This new chump looks like Emil from Robocop.

Maybe's it's his less successful cousin or some shit. Yeah that's what I'm going with. OG was a county over getting mad cavegirl pussy at the Great Dino King Tourney, which is the only positive spin to be found in missing Project Gun Frontier 3. I suppose there is G-Darius and Border Down but you know. A Senba-directed helicopter STG, faaack, sounds trippy n' brutal.

Thunder Fox (also inbound) will neutralise the badness and then some.

[BrianC]

I tried AC NG just a year ago due to my love of the FC version. This was before my eyes were open to the positives of arcade style games. I played it for 5 minutes and wrote it off as a trashy cash-in on the brand from the FC game. It felt so slow and stiff compared to the raw agility on FC. And Ryu kills dudes in one hit, not multiple punches and kicks!

But the clips you showed made me reconsider it. Some games really build to something cool like this, but they have trouble showing the player that it’s worth sticking around. I just fed my way through this one and it was actually a lot of fun!

Glad you got some more out of it! FWIW I don't think that's canonically Ryu, just a hired gun on a working vacation. I like to headcanon the FC games as a movie trilogy, and the AC one as the stuntmen goofing around on their off days. Or maybe the AC one was Ryu's training contract? Although nah, that'd ruin the emotional payoff of NG1's ending.

Ryu, you are a man now. (;｀w´;)

Plus I never pegged Ryu as a smooth operator. "Just a girl. Get out of here! Hey wait no OH GOD" *bang* AC bro woulda had her sitting on his lap at the blackjack table within the hour.

Ultimately they don't conflict in my mind any more than the five games called Akumajou Dracula.

I had an advantage going into AC NG, having heard for decades from trusted peeps that it's quality work, sometimes while being called a fraud for having only played the home ones. (in my defense, I bought NG Black specifically for it) Additionally, I've been playing a lot of Tecmo's arcade canon since getting into ACA. Consistently excellent. So I wasn't surprised when NG proved as good as Rygar, Star Force, Senyjo, or a dozen others. All of 'em land on a sweet spot of arcade immediacy, rich mechanical detailing, and vivid personality. (even stoic gunmetal Star Force and Senjyo are unmistakably affectionate works, to say nothing of raucous Ninja Gaiden and Wild Fang) Strongest pound-for-pound catalogue on ACA, imo.

I noticed Ninja Ryukenden 3 and Ninja Ryukenden GB used art from the anime for their packaging for some reason. I heard that anime was not well received?

[BIL]

I noticed Ninja Ryukenden 3 and Ninja Ryukenden GB used art from the anime for their packaging for some reason. I heard that anime was not well received?

I've never actually seen it tbh, but yeah, I recall a lukewarm rep. Would have to verify personally, you know I am a mistrustful sort.

I did think Ryu's character redesign is quite cool, those boxes look great. Though admittedly, in both games, he's the same efficiently iconic blue shinobi... so it's ultimately kinda tacked-on. Ninja Gaiden III captures the early 90s OVA zeitgeist admirably well in its own right, with its BIONOID concept of artificial humanity via sinister alien tech. Very Guyveresque.

Bio-Engineered Killing Machine from Beyond The Void
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll prove it by killing you."

Sixty-Fourth Successor of MUTEKI PEREGRINE FALCON-RYUU
"Go ahead and try. I won't be beaten by the likes of you."

I'd jump on a straight adaptation of that anytime. Meanwhile NGAC has a clear love of classic 70s/80s manga, with its entire last stage an extended Battle Tendency reference. And Wild Fang is practically a Nagai/Ishikawa gorefest gone beltscroll. I could imagine each team's respective manga shelves.

[Air Master Burst]

captures the early 90s OVA zeitgeist admirably well in its own right, with its BIONOID concept of artificial humanity via sinister alien tech.

Had I gone to fancy college, this woulda been my graduate thesis. I'd have a whole section on the parallels between the bubble economy and Bubblegum Crisis and puns about how they both got to Crash at the same time.

I think we can all agree it's better that I didn't go to fancy college.

I noticed Ninja Ryukenden 3 and Ninja Ryukenden GB used art from the anime for their packaging for some reason. I heard that anime was not well received?

I've never actually seen it tbh, but yeah, I recall a lukewarm rep. Would have to verify personally, you know I am a mistrustful sort. Image

Well GET ON THAT SHIT! It's about as early 90s OVA as it gets! I believe it's considered a direct canon sequel to NG3. The production values ain't great, but if you got nostalgia for the era it hits just right. Bonus points for watching on a CRT!

[Sima Tuna]

Took the opportunity to grab myself Rastan and Volgarr, finally. Haven't played Volgarr yet, but Rastan is a good time. It's surprisingly difficult, or I'm particularly awful at it. Enemies are relentless in both spawn rate and aggression.

[Sengoku Strider]

Had I gone to fancy college, this woulda been my graduate thesis. I'd have a whole section on the parallels between the bubble economy and Bubblegum Crisis and puns about how they both got to Crash at the same time.

I think we can all agree it's better that I didn't go to fancy college.

In grad school I TAed media studies courses where students handed in papers exactly like this. Honestly, the bar for impressing there is lower than you'd think. Most students will use textbook connections - like, Godzilla is about trauma and anxiety around the atomic bomb, which is fine, but doesn't get you over the original thinking hump into A territory unless it's clinical perfection. The best paper I ever got was about Persona, I think I still have it on a hard drive somewhere. If you actually stuck the landing with the bubble economy cultural history portion, and made decent connections around the bubble gum thing to disposable consumer culture and the way it invariably treats humans in the same fashion, you totally could have had a solid thesis on your hands. There is some pretty dumb stuff around anime media theory that gets published.

[it290]

Rastan 2 is 100% as bad as they say. It was one of my absolute favorite arcade games as a kid and my friend and I were always scanning store shelves in vain for a nonexistent NES port (no real way to know if something existed back then other than word of mouth and ads!). We eventually DID stumble across the (quite competent) SMS cart in a used game shop, but of course, who had an SMS?

All of this was before I was allowed to have a console of my own. Eventually my parents relented and I was allowed to have a Genesis. Imagine my excitement seeing 'Rastan Saga 2' on the shelf at the rental place. It's hard to convey the depth of my disappointment upon arriving home and firing that cartridge up. What had they done to my beautiful boy!?

I could have probably forgiven Taito had the sins been merely aesthetic in nature, but aside from taking away everything cool from the first game, they also just completely botched the basic design. The sprites are too big, the levels are incredibly linear and blocky, all of Rastan's fluidity of movement is gone... just a mess.

Pretty pumped about the Warrior Blade news, though! That game is gonna look fantastic on a big widescreen TV.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

The next Tengo Project game, after Kage, seems to be a remake of Final Mission / SCAT. Like Shadow of the Ninja, this is definitely one I'd like to see them update and polish up, so I'm curious how this will turn out too.

[Sima Tuna]

Tengo Project has yet to make a truly bad game, so I'm excited about anything they announce. I think I played SCAT (heh) first on 3ds via the eshop.

[Air Master Burst]

The next Tengo Project game, after Kage, seems to be a remake of Final Mission / SCAT. Like Shadow of the Ninja, this is definitely one I'd like to see them update and polish up, so I'm curious how this will turn out too.

This actually makes a lot of sense considering their first game was Omega Five.

[Bassa-Bassa]

If it happens, I really wish they stay true to the original controls as they've done until now and leave it away of the analog twin stick foolery. But something's telling me that wouldn't be the case.

[velo]

This actually makes a lot of sense considering their first game was Omega Five.

I wish they'd rescue that one from the XB360. Seems like an easy win. I'd grab it day one.

If it happens, I really wish they stay true to the original controls as they've done until now and leave it away of the analog twin stick foolery. But something's telling me that wouldn't be the case.

I was pleased that they fought off the urge to make P&R a twin stick shooter. Or Wild Guns, come to think of it.

[Sima Tuna]

I doubt you have anything to worry about. As said, Tengo have already had the chance to make their games into twin-stick shooters, and they resisted the inclination. The worst one can say of their remakes is the games are a little more difficult when the play field is 16:9, and some bosses got mega upgrades (Ninja Saviors.)

[Air Master Burst]

This actually makes a lot of sense considering their first game was Omega Five.

I wish they'd rescue that one from the XB360. Seems like an easy win. I'd grab it day one.

They relisted it a couple years back!

The worst one can say of their remakes is the games are a little more difficult when the play field is 16:9

Please tell me they still include native 4:3 options for CRT users like Sonic Mania!

[BIL]

Rastan 2 is 100% as bad as they say.

Tempted to agree, from a few credits between Gun Frontier and Gun Smoke. It handles really bizarrely, particularly in the air... I like the shield mechanic, but with the janky movement and attack ranges, all it really does it make me appreciate ActRaiser II even more. A game that nails close-quarters slashing, unique air movement, and always-on guard with champion elan.

The original Rastan isn't a classically airtight action/platformer ala Rygar/Dracula, with its run startup and unforgiving bump collision, but it has an undeniable swashbuckling ethos; momentum-based slaughter complicated by treacherously steep footing. The sequel feels like an attempt to retool lightning in a bottle... it's distinctive too, but bad. EDIT: can't believe I missed the resemblance to Haunted Castle. Eerily (and unfortunately) similar handling.

I find the garish art style perversely likeable - if the original's collision is conspicuously Euroesque, this is its pixel equivalent - and the OST is unironically excellent. Not feeling too motivated to pick up the ACA ver just yet though. Another game it makes me want to play instead is The Lord Of King.

[Sima Tuna]

The worst one can say of their remakes is the games are a little more difficult when the play field is 16:9

Please tell me they still include native 4:3 options for CRT users like Sonic Mania!

Their remakes don't work that way. They aren't porting the original game. The original game isn't in the package anywhere. You don't buy the original game. So no, there's no option to play in 4:3 because these are new games built on the bones of the originals. Which leads to the only complaint I've ever seen, namely that Tengo Project remakes do not take the place of the originals. Because of the 16:9 play field and some other gameplay changes, the original versions are still desirable to play for purists.

It's best to think of Pocky and Rocky Reshrined, Ninja Warriors Once Again and Wild Guns Reloaded as completely new games that build on the principles of the originals. Wild Guns was originally a gallery shooter in 4:3. Well, making it 16:9 also adds difficulty. NWOA upgrades each boss significantly, so pushovers become noob crushers. I'm not as familiar with Pocky and Rocky, but I've seen the snes original and the new one has some major gameplay differences. Especially with all the extra playable characters.

The new version of Shadow of the Ninja is likely to conform to the same design philosophy. It will be less an HD remaster and more of a complete overhaul designed around native 16:9 widescreen, modern hardware and hd displays. Tengo Project are always faithful to the games they port, but they are not merely porting them, either. This distinction between making a new product that builds upon the old, vs faithfully bringing over just the original in HD, is the primary point of contention I've seen regarding their work. But nobody disputes the quality of their end product. It's only a matter of personal preference, aka "I don't like Wild Guns in 16:9 because it's too hard" or "I don't like Jubei in NWOA because he is too annoying."

I guess what I'm saying is 4:3 would never work in their remakes, because they'd be chopping off part of the play field. The games are built for native 16:9. Removing what you can see would have you playing blind against threats offscreen. They'd have to program in new mercy mechanics for every game.