Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Fudoh]

Fudoh, any thoughts about the Sony PFM-42V1? 42", 480p. My concerns are that, well, its a plasma so it may die anytime, it has more than 10 years of service after all. They're asking US$350 for it, probably can get it for US$300. Worth it?

never had one. It's a WVGA panel, but there are plenty of those out there and the price seems to high considering that I've seen Panasonic 480p panels for 100 EUR or less.

[22point8]

You can easily find sony, panasonic and pioneer professional plasmas on ebay for very low prices, usually a bit battered and you'd have to collect it. If it helps I have a Samsung PS43F4900, its 1024x768, up close you can see the sub pixels, its similar in pitch to a regular trinitron, a 600 line PVM is almost invisible. It looks really good though, even if you just stick it in movie mode and turn off the power saving and turn brightness down to the point there is no dithering in black (one click). I've calibrated mine with a spectrophotometer and colorimeter, so its got reference performance.




A deltaE of <3 is considered inperceptible to the human eye.

Oh and that's with the black optimiser off, I haven't remeasured since turning it on, it really makes a difference.

[Fudoh]

If it helps I have a Samsung PS43F4900, its 1024x768

XGA panels are extremely easy to find, yes, but then again it's impossible to use a XRGB with proper scanlines or any other scanline device on them.

[FriendofSonic]

I had notice a small tear in the protective film over the screen and could feel it too. Then, I saw what looked to be another tear, but I couldn't feel this one on the outside. It looks like it's on the inside? I grabbed a flashlight and whatever it is casts a shadow even. Should I be concerned with that?

[Kabal2X]

Fudoh, any thoughts about the Sony PFM-42V1? 42", 480p. My concerns are that, well, its a plasma so it may die anytime, it has more than 10 years of service after all. They're asking US$350 for it, probably can get it for US$300. Worth it?

never had one. It's a WVGA panel, but there are plenty of those out there and the price seems to high considering that I've seen Panasonic 480p panels for 100 EUR or less.

The guy who is selling this TV says that he think the price is right because "its the only TV of it class in working order here in Chile" Does US$200 sounds good? Im offering that much, lets see what will happen

[Fudoh]

If you want it, it doesn't really matter if you $200 or $300. What do you want it for ? I wouldn't assume that it handles 240p as well as the Pioneer does, so you might be stuck with a 480p panel for which you have to use a linedoubler to use your 240p sources. And then again, you could get any 42" HD LCD or plasma for that task.

[c4ke]

About two weeks ago I stumbled upon this thread and immediately got interested in the Sony PVM's with 240p input. Today I got my first PVM (and made my first post on this forum). It's a Sony PVM-1454QM.

I've hooked it up to my Playstation 2 using the component cable and the RCA->BNC adapters and ran some Ibara. Just to test the monitor. But it's looking awesome already!

Tomorrow I'll receive a Extron VSC500, complete with the original box and cables. Will be using it to down convert the 31khz 420p signal from a Dreamcast to a 15khz 480i signal and see how that will do.

And I would like to thank Fudoh and Fagin for all their information and support. I've read and viewed alot of information from you guys the last two weeks. Excellent work. :D

Question: I've got the oppertunity to get either a Extron RGB 164xi or a Extron 201Rxi. But which one should I get? I want to use it for converting to a 240p signal and input it to the PVM.

[Taiyaki]

I received my BVM-20G1u today but can't seem to get it to do anything. The menu bottom as well as up and down and the confirm or what ever is directly below menu do nothing. The other test buttoms seem to work as they light up, including shift the first one. Then the numerical buttons also do nothing. The address button does work however. But once in the address menu I can only move up and down with the dials and can't seem to press enter or anything. What should I do?

[Fudoh]

To actually move through the menus and confirm anything you use the PHASE dial and button next to it.

[Taiyaki]

Thank you for the reply. The button below phase doesn't seem to work in the "address" menu, the button however does light up as do the others under the dials.

Does the BVM need something connected to it in order to be able to change channels and use the menus or is the remote just broken? It's in rather good condition from the outside with almost no scratches or marks on the unit itself but it is from June 1998 and according to the seller has 18000 hours recorded on it. The power button also seems to do nothing. Very puzzled.

[Fudoh]

Oh I see - you don't get any reaction at all. Most probable cause is a connection cable between the control unit and the monitor with the wrong pinout - e.g. a nullmodem cable with crossed wires instead of a straight connection. MENU, POWER and the CHANNEL select buttons (0-9) should always work, no matter wether a source is connected or not.

[Taiyaki]

Oh I see - you don't get any reaction at all. Most probable cause is a connection cable between the control unit and the monitor with the wrong pinout - e.g. a nullmodem cable with crossed wires instead of a straight connection. MENU, POWER and the CHANNEL select buttons (0-9) should always work, no matter wether a source is connected or not.

Thank you so much. I examined the cable and opened up the side where the controller cable goes (my BVM has the controller attached at the bottom) and checked the connection on both ends. I then checked on ebay for other sellers to compare and it is the same cable as the original one I seems.

Then it occured to me.... maybe the problem is with the power. The seller didn't include a power cord so I unplugged my fax and used that one which has 13A 125V but according to the back of the BVM unit it needs 140V. Could that be the problem? I hope I won't have to return this unit.

[Ed Oscuro]

Then it occured to me.... maybe the problem is with the power. The seller didn't include a power cord so I unplugged my fax and used that one which has 13A 125V but according to the back of the BVM unit it needs 140V.

That's 140 watts, not volts. Like any other (at least newer) BVM or PVM, it accepts 100V to 240V.

Go ahead and try that fax's power cord. It's possible some PC-style power cords can't provide enough current. You should be able to gather this from an ampere rating on the side of the power cord sleeve, or if the first cable you've tried is thinner than the fax cord. I kind of doubt this is the problem, but it's worth a shot!

[Taiyaki]

Go ahead and try that fax's power cord. It's possible some PC-style power cords can't provide enough current. You should be able to gather this from an ampere rating on the side of the power cord sleeve, or if the first cable you've tried is thinner than the fax cord. I kind of doubt this is the problem, but it's worth a shot!

The cord I tried was the fax cord, it's of decent thickness, not sure what the standard is but it says 13A, is that insufficient? I also have my pc power cord but it also says 125w so I thought it would be the same.

The BVM powers on after about 5 or so seconds when the back switch is on but then I can't do anything on it since the menu, power and channel buttons on the controller don't work. I can press some of the color test buttons and the lights on the buttons turn on when I press shift+ others indicating that the physical buttons seem to work. I went through the manual too and can't find anything.

I don't mind buying another dull modem straight cable if that's worth the try but it appears the cable provided is the original one that was packed in since it looks physically identical to others on ebay from the same set with bkm10 built in. Could there be damage to the controller connection socket on the unit?

Very distressing.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you're seeing a picture then you have enough power. Did you hook things up to it?

You should be more specific about what you see when you press buttons. You say you press the color test buttons - are the only things responding to your inputs on the controller? Or does the screen change? If nothing onscreen changes, it seems reasonable that you're on the right track about the controller connector. Otherwise, if there's some reaction on the monitor unit itself, then the problem is probably something else. I think the cable works at least partially, since the BKM-10r doesn't seem to have its own power input, so it has to have at least power from the monitor.

[Taiyaki]

If you're seeing a picture then you have enough power. Did you hook things up to it?

You should be more specific about what you see when you press buttons. You say you press the color test buttons - are the only things responding to your inputs on the controller? Or does the screen change? If nothing onscreen changes, it seems reasonable that you're on the right track about the controller connector. Otherwise, if there's some reaction on the monitor unit itself, then the problem is probably something else. I think the cable works at least partially, since the BKM-10r doesn't seem to have its own power input, so it has to have at least power from the monitor.

I see a picture of solid dark gray/black. The buttons on the left seem to do something at least the ones that change the ratio since I believe I see the screen flicker as if it did change, one of them makes the whole screen go light grey/white and one of the last buttons on the left row, the address button, opens the address menu but turning the dial is the most I can do as the button next to the dial (confirm or enter I think) does not work either. After I leave the address menu it says channel 1 in the top right for a few seconds. I can't change the channels as the numerical buttons do nothing so I'm stuck there.

So I gather the most likely problem is either the null modem cable or the power supply cable? Is it possible for a null modem cable to get damaged and only respond partly as a result? Based on appearances I don't see anything wrong with it but I will go to Radio Shack tomorrow and try to find a new one.

The unit looks near mint, I mean I was actually surprised when I unboxed it. It was also very carefully wrapped. It would be terrible if the problem is the controller socket in the back of the BVM or the BVM itself. I'm really hoping I don't have to return this unit.

[Ed Oscuro]

So I gather the most likely problem is either the null modem cable or the power supply cable?

No, neither of us know enough to say that at this point. However, it probably wouldn't hurt anything to try another cable.

Somebody else is going to have to chime in. Have you sent a message to your seller yet? Some of them know quite a bit about these monitors.

[22point8]

Manual for a bvm-20G1E hope it helps
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=6 ... ile%2c.pdf

and F1U
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=6 ... ile%2c.pdf

[Taiyaki]

Thank you both of you.

Unfortunately the manual doesn't state anything about what to do when the controller isn't fully responding.

I got a reply from the seller he says the unit worked fine when they checked it and went in the menus to see the number of hours, the cord needed is a "standard IEC cord, also known as a "Business Machine Cord." The device draws 100-120VAC, 50/60Hz, and 1.6A for an average power consumption of 140W."
Again for comparison what I used yesterday was a 13A 125W fax cord. But apparently that shouldn't be the issue?

I'll be going to Radioshack to buy a new null modem cable and hopefully they'll have something similar to try powering the machine again to check it's functioning properly.

I recall that when the unit arrived it was packaged upside down with the bottom up, and when I took it out the connection to the back of the unit was very wobbly so I had to press it back in before I tried it. I hope it wasn't damaged...

[Fudoh]

But apparently that shouldn't be the issue?

of course not.

If you buy a new cable, pay attention, since you don't want a nullmodem cable, but a cable with straight connections.

[Taiyaki]

But apparently that shouldn't be the issue?

of course not.

If you buy a new cable, pay attention, since you don't want a nullmodem cable, but a cable with straight connections.

Thank you. I thought they were both nullmodem cables one crossed and one straight, but so the straight one is not a nullmodem. Thank you for pointing that out.

From the looks of it I shouldn't be optimistic. It looks as though the unit did possibly get damaged...

EDIT:

Didn't work. Very sad but I guess the BKM-10 unit is either broken or the connection on the inside of the monitor is not working well after all.
What a disastrous experience.

[c4ke]

@Taiyaki: It seems something did get broken (during transfer), otherwise you would've seen some video already. Indeed a very disappointing experience.

I'm very glad my first PVM is working great. First connected it with a PS2 using a component cable running Metal Slug 5, Ibara and Sexy Parodius. It looks great. Running PS1 games on the PS2 hardware + component seems to output 240p. Not completely sure, but the scanlines look great.

And today I received a Extron VSC 500. Hooked it up to my Dreamcast with a custom VGA-cable, running Twinkle Star Sprites.

[Fudoh]

Running PS1 games on the PS2 hardware + component seems to output 240p

yes, they do.

[Taiyaki]

Fudoh, in your opinion is it worth buying a new BKM-10 to test the unit with or do you think that since the bkm is partly responding the connection on the monitor unit is more likely to blame and therefore not worth wasting money on trying that? I still have 13 days to return the unit.

I'm wondering if there's a possibility something in the control unit got disconnected or something which resulted in half the buttons not working. I would open it up to exam it but I wouldn't know what to look for, and I have nothing to compare it to.

[Ed Oscuro]

Try wiggling the connectors on both the control unit and the monitor.

[Taiyaki]

Try wiggling the connectors on both the control unit and the monitor.

Thank you. I tried that but it made no difference. Whenever it reaches a point where the contacts even slightly touch the lights go on on the controller, but still has the problems (power, menu, enter and numerical buttons not working).

Because the controller is under the tv maybe it's more fragile? Then again it has no apparent physical damage so it's hard to tell.

Another question to anyone with a BVM, when you're on the menu screens is it normal for the text to move up and down slightly? I can only access the address menu but that's what it looks like.

[Fudoh]

when you're on the menu screens is it normal for the text to move up and down slightly?

yes, but only as long as not stable source signal is detected.

[Taiyaki]

Thank you. Based on that diagnosis would you say the controller is more likely to be at fault that the unit itself? I'm a click away from buying another controller and when that one arrives I can compare both insides and see if I can repair the broken one too (if it's broken that is).

[Fudoh]

I'm a click away from buying another controller and when that one arrives I can compare both insides and see if I can repair the broken one too (if it's broken that is).

why not agree on something like this with the seller ? Just offer to buy a replacement control unit on your own instead of shipping the monitor back......

[Taiyaki]

I'm a click away from buying another controller and when that one arrives I can compare both insides and see if I can repair the broken one too (if it's broken that is).

why not agree on something like this with the seller ? Just offer to buy a replacement control unit on your own instead of shipping the monitor back......

You mean I ask the seller whether he would be willing to pay for replacing the controller if that fixes it?