Another day, another shooting in the US

[BulletMagnet]

There's countless instances of someone with a gun cutting gun violence short. Do some cursory research on the subject before speaking on it.

Offhand I seem to recall that, statistics-wise, if you own a gun you're far more likely to either shoot someone accidentally or commit suicide with it when you're depressed than ever actually use it to deter someone, but whatever.

[neorichieb1971]

There's countless instances of someone with a gun cutting gun violence short. Do some cursory research on the subject before speaking on it.

Offhand I seem to recall that, statistics-wise, if you own a gun you're far more likely to either shoot someone accidentally or commit suicide with it when you're depressed than ever actually use it to deter someone, but whatever.

Totally agree with this.

[Zen]

Trying to catch up on the full thread, I cant quit grasp how Skykid, an otherwise redoubtable chap, is for the common man relinquishing arms?
Have I got that right, or are you playing Devils advocate, Skykid?

Its a position, that even the meanest of intelligence can beat like a red headed step child, so I don't quite get it.

Though I am beginning to suspect the thread's inception as an ambulance chasing low cow with obvious comic potential for hand wringing and dramatic projection.
PLUS! It has the added bonus of having an endless supply on new posts . . . . . genius!

[MintyTheCat]

Trying to catch up on the full thread, I cant quit grasp how Skykid, an otherwise redoubtable chap, is for the common man relinquishing arms?
Have I got that right, or are you playing Devils advocate, Skykid?

Its a position, that even the meanest of intelligence can beat like a red headed step child, so I don't quite get it.

Though I am beginning to suspect the thread's inception as an ambulance chasing low cow with obvious comic potential for hand wringing and dramatic projection.
PLUS! It has the added bonus of having an endless supply on new posts . . . . . genius!

Well, it's hard to take it all too seriously as this forum is hardly the place to have a serious discussion about the ways of the world so it kind of ends up being a bit silly.
I have no idea what our comrade has to say about it but I think a lot of it boils down to what you kind of consider to be 'normal'. If you were surrounded by guns and such growing up it may seem to be normal to you. I have to say that I don't anyone who owns a gun and no one around me owned one but had I have been raised elsewhere in the US perhaps then it would be more likely to seem 'normal' to me. I think that most of the 'debate' is far too embroiled in emotions to be 'sensible' and hence why humour works better

The post above about gun owners being more likely to shoot themselves I recall having read that a few times too. It makes sense really. I've heard of people cutting themselves accidentally with a katana in the past too so basically handling any weapon can be dangerous and requires care, attention and respect really.

[GaijinPunch]

There's countless instances of someone with a gun cutting gun violence short. Do some cursory research on the subject before speaking on it.

The smart good guys w/ guns don't do shit b/c they know the SWAT team will pick them off like flies. There was a big stink about this when a guy at a mass shooting had a fucking gun but said there was no way he was going to get caught up in it. Do some research.

The post above about gun owners being more likely to shoot themselves I recall having read that a few times too. It makes sense really. I've heard of people cutting themselves accidentally with a katana in the past too so basically handling any weapon can be dangerous and requires care, attention and respect really.

This statistic isn't the most ridiculous of the debate: it's that the extreme end of the gun toters want zero regulation b/c it encroaches on their rights, even though it might keep a highly efficient killing machine out of the hands of a deranged wacko. There is more regulation on fucking cough syrup than guns and ammo. That's not even sarcasm.

[neorichieb1971]

Saw this today. Its going to happen eventually.

[GaijinPunch]

President fuck stick answers a question...

[Durandal]

It's part and parcel of living in America.

[ZacharyB]

It's more part and parcel of dying in America than living in America.

[Despatche]

It'd be nice if people would actually draw the line between 100% gun control and key gun restrictions. It's funny how people don't believe in very basic deterrence anymore, especially as shootings are on the rise.

[BulletMagnet]

It'd be nice if people would actually draw the line between 100% gun control and key gun restrictions.

To the best of my knowledge, quite a lot of folks do: not only do most "gun control advocates" only want laws specifically designed to limit particularly dangerous guns and/or keep them out of criminal possession (expanded background checks/waiting periods, limits on mass sales, bans on military-style weaponry, etc.), but last I checked a majority of both gun owners and NRA members also support similar "common sense" regulation, because they want "responsible gun ownership" to actually mean something. There's hardly 100 percent agreement on this stuff, but few people are truly satisfied with the way things are, let alone want to move even further into the Wild West direction. Unfortunately the "slippery slope" folks are currently running the show, and all we can do is hope that the rank-and-file eventually get fed up being represented by people who blame "mental illness" for every gun-related problem we have...and then pass laws making it easier for mentally-ill people to buy any gun they want.

[neorichieb1971]

Man cannot resolve this issue. It will take a higher order, like God to come out of the sky and ridicule anyone who is pro gun from the planet.

I think there is a relation between the shootings and honky tonk towns where some folks don't see themselves ever leaving. There must be some correlation to having guns and experiencing a routine life of going nowhere.

If you look at Canada there are many guns, but not many honky tonk towns in the middle of nowhere. Maybe everyone needs a trip to the city every now and again to feel real life in America. When I lived in the USA my first stop was Mayfield, KY since that is where my in laws lived. Its a dry county, the only thing to do in entertainment is shopping at the Walmart super center, eating, bowling, fishing, camping and fucking. Lots of teenage pregnancies around that area.

So there you go, a childhood turned adulthood in a place like that without ever going anywhere different. I think that would top you eventually.

[jonny5]

If you look at Canada there are many guns, but not many honky tonk towns in the middle of nowhere.

Actually Richie, most of Canada is honky tonk towns outside the few major urban centers, and we have guns, but mostly rifles and shotguns, and thats in the more rural areas, not so much in the cities - anything else is quite difficult to get permits for, handguns are not common outside law enforcement and criminals.

When everybody is armed with guns, more people are killed with guns, it's what they're for. Take away a gun, and it is obviously much harder to shoot someone. Pulling a trigger is easy comparatively, but not many would have the fortitude to beat or stab someone to death. I dont claim to have the answers to the gun problems in the US, but it is clear things are not working now.

[neorichieb1971]

If you look at Canada there are many guns, but not many honky tonk towns in the middle of nowhere.

Actually Richie, most of Canada is honky tonk towns outside the few major urban centers

Maybe right, but Canadians probably have a better vision of hope of getting out of those places.

On a side note I often wonder why countries that are terrorist targets with guns have not been a victim of their own creating. The last time I heard of a terrorist threat with guns was the beach attack in Africa? And the comic thing in Paris. For the most part terrorist threats in gun ridden countries comes in the way of trucks, vans and knives. Which means that gun control works really well or the people committing terrorist threats are extremely dumb.

[Rob]

Maybe everyone needs a trip to the city every now and again to feel real life in America.

Real life: a thing found in a megalopolis. Typically I go to the unpeopled areas to experience real life, but I guess we all have our own tastes. Also, do you remember Stephen Paddock? The Las Vegas junky and jet setter? Didn't seem to do him much good. Devin Kelley was given "high doses of 'psych' meds" as a child.

[GaijinPunch]

If you look at Canada there are many guns, but not many honky tonk towns in the middle of nowhere.

Actually Richie, most of Canada is honky tonk towns outside the few major urban centers, and we have guns, but mostly rifles and shotguns, and thats in the more rural areas, not so much in the cities - anything else is quite difficult to get permits for, handguns are not common outside law enforcement and criminals.

When everybody is armed with guns, more people are killed with guns, it's what they're for. Take away a gun, and it is obviously much harder to shoot someone. Pulling a trigger is easy comparatively, but not many would have the fortitude to beat or stab someone to death. I dont claim to have the answers to the gun problems in the US, but it is clear things are not working now.

Nice to see you pop up!

[jonny5]

Hey buddy. I've been back for a month or 2. The music forum I've been spending most of my web time on the last few years was down for a few weeks and I ended up back here again, hadnt been around much at all in about 3 years. Was stoked there were still the usual suspects kicking it around, but fuck me did that Bush thread blow my mind. So ya, stuck around to put the boots to some bigots and nazis and catch up on a few years of off topic, even spending some time in shmups chat and strategy, which I havent done in a VERY long time, haha.

Either way, I'm playing games again for the first time in years and having meets again, so it's quite nice to see everyone again.

Hope all is well in Chicago

[Rob]

put the boots to some bigots and nazis

[MintyTheCat]

Maybe everyone needs a trip to the city every now and again to feel real life in America.

Real life: a thing found in a megalopolis. Typically I go to the unpeopled areas to experience real life, but I guess we all have our own tastes.

Rob's got a point here: real life well, what is it? City living is one thing but it can be a banal existence too. I think the notion of 'real' is a spectrum for many folks.
I think Richie is just using some loose phrases here though bleeding context through that you picked up on.

[jonny5]

put the boots to some bigots and nazis

[img]pic[/img]

Yes Rob, I was referring to you, and a few others, but you are really the only one that has me shaking my head - I dont know them, but I have been around you on this forum for the better part of a decade and you always struck me as an alright guy, so to see the things and ideas you support quite openly was very shocking. Not sure what that picture has to do with it though, Trudeau I am guessing?

[Rob]

Allahu akbar, my northern brother. I won't tell you what I Googled to find it for fear of physical retaliation , but, yeah, Trudeau.

[jonny5]

Rob, its all well and good to spout your racist 4chan master race nonsense over teh interwebs, but say that shit in public to peoples face's, and that has consequences. Dont want to get punched in the mouth, dont say hateful shit. Dont want to be associated with racists and nazis, dont talk like them. Simple.

[BulletMagnet]

Man cannot resolve this issue. It will take a higher order, like God

Behold, His annointed prophet bears the One Truth yet again.

[GaijinPunch]

Hey buddy. I've been back for a month or 2. The music forum I've been spending most of my web time on the last few years was down for a few weeks and I ended up back here again, hadnt been around much at all in about 3 years. Was stoked there were still the usual suspects kicking it around, but fuck me did that Bush thread blow my mind. So ya, stuck around to put the boots to some bigots and nazis and catch up on a few years of off topic, even spending some time in shmups chat and strategy, which I havent done in a VERY long time, haha.

Yeah, it gets a bit heated. Some of us are still here... many got smart and left though. Honestly i'm only ever in here and the market place from time to time.

Either way, I'm playing games again for the first time in years and having meets again, so it's quite nice to see everyone again.

Trying to do that. Real Lifing though!

[neorichieb1971]

Maybe everyone needs a trip to the city every now and again to feel real life in America.

Real life: a thing found in a megalopolis. Typically I go to the unpeopled areas to experience real life, but I guess we all have our own tastes.

Rob's got a point here: real life well, what is it? City living is one thing but it can be a banal existence too. I think the notion of 'real' is a spectrum for many folks.
I think Richie is just using some loose phrases here though bleeding context through that you picked up on.

I just know that people that shoot people aren't been distracted by a varied and rewarding life. Most of life is a distraction from the reality that life doesn't mean all that much in the context of anything meaningful. Coming here to the shmups forum is one such distraction.

[Skykid]

Rob, its all well and good to spout your racist 4chan master race nonsense over teh interwebs, but say that shit in public to peoples face's, and that has consequences. Dont want to get punched in the mouth, dont say hateful shit. Dont want to be associated with racists and nazis, dont talk like them. Simple.

Honestly I think this and some of what folk said in the other thread are a bit harsh on Rob. Perhaps it's because, whenever I go back to the UK, immigration, poverty, cut benefits, a buckling welfare state, crime, terrorist attacks and a weak-ass government tend to be the topic on everyone's lips. And these are nice people who I've known all my life and I wouldn't even consider right wing at all. It just so happens that whether you like it or not, the ideas based around opening the doors for mass immigration to bring people in to work and start new business (which was spearheaded by Labour in the 70s I believe?) simply has not worked and has ended up having a long term detrimental effect.

When two sides have different viewpoints, for example quash and Bulletmagnet, I tend to find a conversation which would be completely civil face-to-face ends up becoming far too extreme when handled on the internet (I know, been there and done it!)

My two-bits is that Rob's stance doesn't actually make him a racist Nazi and I'm not sure I read any single statement that would back that up. He's just pro-the US dragging its blubbering ass out of the mess it's mired in thanks to decades of government and financial sector meltdowns, and anti unfettered immigration putting a strain on the country's recovery.

Whether any of us like it or not, immigration and the control of immigration is a factor in the stability of a nation for better or worse. That makes it a topic of debate. That doesn't mean you should grab a sign saying "immigrants go home!" and march the streets, but you should have a discussion on what benefits and long term goals you're aiming to achieve with your immigration policies.

ON TOPIC for this one, I find it totally weird that pro-gun campaigners in the US manage to get worked up by Islamic extremists within their borders threatening them with terror attacks. In the UK that shit worries us, because when we're attacked by Islamic extremists and people die, that's the main kind of street level terror we need to worry about (discounting petty street crime and gang murders etc).

In the US general gun crime makes Islamic extremist threats look completely insignificant by comparison. I wouldn't worry about a brainwashed muslim radical anywhere near as much as the in-bred TV junkie with a load of rifles in his basement and an eccentric disposition.

[Zen]

Rob, its all well and good to spout your racist 4chan master race nonsense over teh interwebs, but say that shit in public to peoples face's, and that has consequences. Dont want to get punched in the mouth, dont say hateful shit. Dont want to be associated with racists and nazis, dont talk like them. Simple.

Punch "Nazi's" for "peace"?.

[Xyga]

@SkyKid: either you've missed entire portions of the Trump thread or you're wearing opinion blinders. They deserve what they're being called.

@jonny5: they have the internet and innumerable safe spaces like this community now, we can't even punch them anymore, not that it would stop that cancer from spreading anyway.

[Skykid]

@SkyKid: either you've missed entire portions of the Trump thread or you're wearing opinion blinders. They deserve what they're being called.

Yeah I try not to look into that thread too often. I can only remember snippets that I've seen and I didn't realise anything had been said that qualified as undiluted Nazism, but I admit I could be wrong.

[Mischief Maker]

Skykid, did you miss the parts where Rob said that non-"whites" are genetically inferior based on eugenics pseudoscience?

And the way he stubbornly clams up whenever confronted with proof that these same arguments were once used against people he now claims are genetically compatible (Irish, Jews, Germans, etc.)?



I can forgive the mistaken belief in pseudoscience, you have to know the con before you realize these eugenics hucksters are using the same disingenuous techniques as intelligent design hucksters. It's his stubborn persistence in the face of countervailing evidence that's unacceptable.