Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BryanM]

I'm gonna have to give it to Anon on this one. Metric is pretty crap for regular day to day living. Powers of ten are especially something our brains just can't grasp. 10000000 is ten times bigger than 1000000. As big a difference as 10 is to 1. But you don't feel that, when looking at the numbers.

But I guess that isn't its purpose. Its purpose is to standardize measurements so when you ride in your space shuttle it doesn't blow up. (It'll still blow up.)

Been a little addicted to this HoloCure game lately. I guess puppeting a V-tuber would be a preferable situation to the gorny horror of actually being one.

Mandatory MilleniaThinker link. Quite frankly, that channel is kind of like this thread's bible.

[Sengoku Strider]

The Palestinian issue, one indigenous land claim among countless in the world, indefinitely remains as high-tension as it is because Israel is surrounded on all sides by openly hostile parties supporting them.

Whatever threat the surrounding pro-Palestinian nations might pose to Israel, it certainly doesn't appear to have dissuaded the latter from very openly escalating its current campaign - assuming you believe it was anything else from the start - into a brazen, all-out effort to finally erase Palestine completely from the map once and for all, no matter how much they have to destroy and how many civilians have to die.

No, I don't think the plan is to eliminate the Palestinian territories at all. I think their intention is to root out Hamas no matter how many civilians and hospitals they hide their fighters behind.

Cliffs notes version of why I believe this:

1. Netanyahu was indicted for corruption, then won re-election a week before the trial was scheduled, and the case remains "ongoing" after a lengthy covid pause. He has uncoincidentally launched a series of highly controversial attempts at judicial reforms, his party is tanking in polls, and his political position is tenuous.

2. This is important, because as prime minister he doesn't have the constitutional power to unilaterally make the decision to eliminate Palestine. So he'd have to make a crazy move at a time when he doesn't have the political capital to expend on such a thing.

3. And it would be politically crazy, because Israelis don't want him to do it:

The Times of Israel - Majority of Israelis oppose annexation, resettlement of Gaza – poll

56 percent of Israelis opposed such a policy in the long term, as opposed to only 33% in favor and 11% who were uncertain.

...and that's from the right wing outlet.

4. Why would they want to? The people in Gaza are impossibly radicalized against Israel. Their infrastructure is a mess. Their civil administration is just corruption in the shape of a civil administration, with a dozen different countries having fingers in the pie. Why make all their problems your problems? The sensible play is to remove Hamas, install a more moderate group you can work with and hope for a reset.

the supposedly imminent wrath of their neighbors

Nobody in Israel is supposing anything, everyone there has lived it their whole lives. Not speaking to you directly here, but generally I get the feeling that everyone knows there's tension in the Middle East, but a lot of the internet only joined the story in detail in October. This is not helped by the fact that most reporting from international outlets presents incidents in a vacuum, or with only skeletal details. This is the list of invasions and military actions taken against Israel since its founding:

1947-1949 Arab–Israeli War - British Mandate moves forward with establishment of Israel, with the offer of a state for the Palestinians. Arab countries shoot down the offer out of refusal to let the Jews control Jerusalem. Egypt, Jordan and Syria invade, fighting alongside assorted insurgent groups. Jewish side wins out and establish Israel.

1967 Six-Day War – It's the 60s, Pan-Arabism is hot, and Egypt, Jordan, and Syria are back! And this time they've brought Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Algeria along for the ride, of course with the usual assortment of insurgent groups as well. Israeli tank commanders pull off one of the most improbable crossovers in military history and push them back.

1967-1970 War of Attrition – The Arab countries got dunked on in the Six-Day war, to the point that Egypt even lost the Sinai. With backing from the USSR the Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, and the PLO spend three years fighting to take parts of it back. They don't succeed and a ceasefire is signed 1970 with territorial lines the same as they had been.

1973 Yom Kippur War – Invade Israel 3: Tel Aviv Drift. Egypt and Syria are back again in force, and trying to reclaim the Sinai. They spend three weeks at it this time, but are fended off with no gains.

1971-1982 Lebanon Palestinian insurgency - Things were not looking so hot, so the Palestinian Liberation Organization relocated to southern Lebanon and spent the 1970s staging guerrilla attacks on Israel. Eventually, after a failed assassination attempt on the Israeli ambassador to Britain, the Israelis get fed up and invade Lebanon. Fighting ends with the establishment of a security zone in south Lebanon, and the PLO are expelled.

1985-2000 Lebanon conflict - But you knew it wouldn't end there, right? Lebanese muslims are pissed, so 15 years of fighting between Lebanese muslim guerrillas against Israeli forces and Lebanese Christian militias ensues.

1987-1993 First Intifada – MEANWHILE, at the same time the Palestinians in the occupied territories were getting fed up with their treatment. They kill an Israeli guy, an Israeli in a truck hits some Palestinians and 6 years of riots, refusal to pay taxes, setting up barricaded positions and attacking Israeli civilians ensues. The Palestinians end up getting the worst of it, which did not seem to calm tensions.

2000-2005 Second Intifada – Remember the Camp David accords? That was Bill Clinton's plan to solve this whole situation, but what he didn't factor in was the large number of Very Very Angry People involved who didn't want it solved. The failure of the Camp David talks somehow led to a second Palestinian uprising, after Ariel Sharon visited the Al Aqsa mosque and the Palestinians lost their minds over it for reasons I cannot decode, because as near as I can tell he didn't do anything weird there. They riot, Israelis crack down violently, and the result is a spiral into years of suicide bombings, rocket attacks on Israel and shooting. It ends with the Israelis pulling out of Gaza, and Hamas taking power there.

2006-present Hamas Era - Hamas were elected on a platform of armed resistance to Israel. They took this mandate, never held an election again in the last 17 years, and really ran with the armed thing:



Imagine 20 consecutive years of Cuban rockets hitting New York. Americans might eventually get a little annoyed and want to get rid of the guys doing it.

I've skipped over some stuff, but hopefully the point is clear that the entire history of Israel is just every country surrounding them either attacking them directly, or through insurgent proxies. When people show up and start framing the conflict as Israel being super mean and oppressive to helpless innocents, I get the sense they've just been shown a very slim part of the whole picture by the internet. We're decades past the point of both sides going way over the "You must commit this few atrocities to remain in the good guy column" line. The only thing to root for is everyone just getting sick of it all.

[BulletMagnet]

No, I don't think the plan is to eliminate the Palestinian territories at all. I think their intention is to root out Hamas no matter how many civilians and hospitals they hide their fighters behind.

I'd be far more inclined to believe this if:

1) Israel hadn't also been stepping up similar scorched-earth operations in the West Bank, where Hamas does not hold power,

2) Netanyahu and Likud hadn't been deliberately propping up Hamas for years in order to keep a Palestinian state from happening and Israeli citizens fearful and thus more likely to vote for them,

3) While you're correct that Palestine has rejected numerous (and presumably at least somewhat workable) peace deals over the years, so have the Israelis, with the still-on-offer Arab Peace Initiative being a particularly egregious example, since in exchange for a return to the 1967 borders not only Palestine but every single Arab nation would agree to recognize Israel and cease hostilities, and

4) So many of Israel's political and religious leaders, not to mention the settlers already living illegally on Palestinian land, not only openly reject any two-state solution but idealistically speak of "Greater Israel's" innate and indisputable right not only to the Palestinian territories but several other Middle Eastern nations as well, all the way to the Nile River.

As for Netanyahu's current predicament, considering what he's already been able to so brazenly get away with as far as the judiciary is concerned (not to mention, you know, winning an election despite being indicted for corruption, a scenario we here in the US obviously could never in a million years face ourselves), I'm not sure where you get the notion that somehow annexing Palestine, which would win him even more unshakeable loyalty from the far right factions he's bound himself inextricably to, as well as additional "see, I told you only my iron fist approach could finally stop the rockets" clout with everyone else, would somehow give him pause.

To speak to your larger point, no, obviously determining that Israel is innately and always wrong when it comes to the ongoing conflict is a gross oversimplification, but I don't think it's a major stretch to claim with confidence that, as a baseline, 1) Israel has much, much more wealth, weaponry, and powerful allies at its disposable than its Palestinian counterparts, and thus can, and does, inflict infinitely more damage when conflict arises than their adversaries could ever hope to achieve, 2) While not every Israeli (let alone Jewish person) is a spittle-slinging Zionist, as you suggested in a previous post the modern state of Israel was conceived and established as a de facto Western colony in the region, and openly pitched as such by Zionism's founders in their bid to win support for it, and 3) If you're willing to give Israel slack for acting "in its own defense" due to the continued hostilities from surrounding nations, similar consideration can - and, in my opinion, should - be extended to the Palestinians for having been forced to live as second-class (to put it generously) citizens in a bona fide apartheid state for generations on end.

[orange808]

It's not difficult to see. Netanyahu was politically embarrassed by the attack and he needs to murder as many people as possible to prove he's a "strong" right wing leader. Right wing people and religious people love it when their nation kills people. They live for it and they cherish murder.

[Lemnear]

i'm too much islamophobic to say something about it.
A spreading disease that will cancel any culture one day, in the name of some "God".
At least here, where they always want more "respect", while at the same time disrespect you.

[BryanM]

Whelp, the first election is up in a week. The hope is they might be able to win exactly one (1) state from Trump, making all the money and time spent on this endeavor worth it.

You can check out the polls to see how likely that is. But if anyone can do it, it's the creepy weirdos of New Hampshire. They take a lot of pride in getting to decide the destiny of the world and often make avant garde selections.

As 2024 is on track for being the doomiest year on record, it's important to know which theme song we're going with this year. As 2016 was Komm Susser Tod time, and 2020 was Tranz time... this year we're going with doom songs sang by a text to speech AI while a cartoon turtle looks on approvingly.

Go ahead and watch this Barbie With A Cat clip. You deserve it. What with the upcoming horrors and nightmares made manifest coming down the line.

________


The recent news about a lab producing a graphene semiconducter is welcome and possibly very important. But man, what a turn around time. With the blue laser we heard about in the 90's, it wasn't much more than a decade until we had ultraviolet lasers. Graphene semiconducter though, over 20 years it's been..

[Sima Tuna]

Not only the Doomiest year, but the hottest by far. Still won't stop the comment section of every climate science video being dominated by That Guy from Northern Canada who will tell you how cold his winter was....

[BryanM]

The biggest lol will be if Biden wins Texas but still loses the election.

The Muslim community in Michigan is well, in a position to actually matter this time.

[Sima Tuna]

Isn't Trump off the ballot in a state or two? I remember some kerfuffle about that. Then I heard that the ballot ban had been struck down in one state, but I don't know if that means anything to the other states.

[BryanM]

I had to read a whole primer on the topic to see what the current terrain there looks like (which is certain to shift quickly). So far it only looks like it might apply to Maine's primary. For the general election... you do need to be a wizard to figure out what that'll be like.

So... maybe they'll be able to beat him in *two* states? I don't think I've ever seen a primary that was this low-energy.

Remember Jeb? I saw that old gif of him recently (the one where he puts on a hoodie, it's so unnatural) and so many memories came flooding back.

Hah. Better times, back when we could laugh. Before Bill Gates turned himself into god, built himself an Epstein-style slave province, and fed the rest of us into meat grinders for fertilizer.

[Sengoku Strider]

Trump's lawyer from the second rape defamation and porn star hush money cases quit on him the day before trial. The Trumpworld response?

“President Trump has the most experienced, qualified, disciplined, and overall strongest legal team ever assembled as he continues to fight for America and Americans against these partisan, Crooked Joe Biden-led election interference hoaxes,” Trump spokesperson Steven Cheung said in a statement.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm low key a huge fan of this guy. His vigorous and enthusiastic anti-matter universe denials of reality are almost athletic. Trump's chewed through countless spokespeople over the years (anybody else remember Sean Spicer having a nervous breakdown hiding from the press in the White House bushes?), but this guy's still in there, hanging in the pocket slinging straight laser beams of nonsense.

[Sengoku Strider]

MEDICAL NEWS ALERT

If you've been paying attention, you may have been wondering why you keep having Asian babies all of a sudden. Twitter's blue checkmarks have cracked the case:



It is absolutely, positively not because your wife cheated on you with her physiotherapist.

Free speech 1, Deep State zero.

[Rastan78]

I mean couldn't they at least have the decency to label every vaccine with which kind of baby parts they used to make it?

Also where the hell is Maury Povich when you need him?

[Sengoku Strider]

I mean couldn't they at least have the decency to label every vaccine with which kind of baby parts they used to make it?

She says it's based on the nationality of the DNA, so even if it said 'China' it would still be a loot box.

[Specineff]

MEDICAL NEWS ALERT

Turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese
I really think so...

[Rastan78]

She says it's based on the nationality of the DNA, so even if it said 'China' it would still be a loot box.

Hmm I wonder if she would have any ideas about which nationality of DNA is 'Merican?

And she wouldn't be using the concept of having an Asian child as some sort of boogeyman. Because that would be fear mongering, which has no place in such a scientifically objective PSA

[Sengoku Strider]

And she wouldn't be using the concept of having an Asian child as some sort of boogeyman. Because that would be fear mongering, which has no place in such a scientifically objective PSA

Please. You think a man of science such as Elon would grant as significant a symbol of authority as the blue checkmark™ to just any living human being who could scrape together $8 in the same day? ...or over a pre-rated period payable in monthly instalments?

[Sengoku Strider]

So this is how liberty dies. With the thunderous sound of pucks slapping around between hockey bros' ears.

[BulletMagnet]

So this is how liberty dies. With the thunderous sound of pucks slapping around between hockey bros' ears.

I can guarantee you they very much speak for the American right - and most of the "center" as well - at large. And so does this.

[Sima Tuna]

To be fair, Biden does himself no favors by being so hilariously shit. He cucked out on his promise to eliminate student debt, which could have been a point used to rally his base and generate some excitement. I think a lot of liberals are disenfranchised with the shit deal they get at every election. 8 years of Obama iterating upon Bush Jr. policies and then Biden came back to do the same again. So what's supposed to make a lefty voter excited to vote for him? Meanwhile, well at least Trump is claiming to give his base what they want. Even if what they want is "fuck the poor and fuck the other races."

Then there's all the shit that isn't specifically Biden's fault but happened under his watch and with his approval, like the war on Gaza he's hardcore in favor of. Kill 'em all and let god (but which one?) sort them out.

[Lemnear]

The WW3 in EU is imminent and i don't know what to do...

[Sengoku Strider]

So what's supposed to make a lefty voter excited to vote for him?

Still living in a democracy in 2025 seems like a decent sales pitch, but I dunno. Maybe you guys have really strong core beliefs about gas prices.

I can guarantee you they very much speak for the American right

Oh, I know.


It's the fire emojis that get me.

[Sima Tuna]

So what's supposed to make a lefty voter excited to vote for him?

Still living in a democracy in 2025 seems like a decent sales pitch, but I dunno. Maybe you guys have really strong core beliefs about gas prices.

When was the last time the Americans here felt any of the candidates reflected what they wanted to see from society? I know the US is technically part-democracy in its political systems, but that doesn't mean that we get any good choices when it comes to actually electing people. What is "living in a democracy" doing to benefit the working poor right now?

I'm not in favor of dictatorship, of course. But I'm not going to be manipulated either, by the same kinds of shallow ideological rhetoric that caused the Vietnam War. What I'm interested in is help for the helpless. Of course, Trump won't give us that. But neither will Biden, will he? Every politician who rises above the local level is such a sellout, scum-sucking sack of shit, and so positively corrupt to the core, that any beneficial changes for the majority of citizens become impossible. The rich get richer no matter which party holds office, and no matter how "democratic" our glorious western utopia is proclaimed to be.

So fuck the process, because we've had all these years of the "democratic ideal" and the working poor are the worst off they've ever been. Shit wouldn't be any better under a Trumpenfuhrer, but it's not good now either. An election between a lame duck and an orange clown-what an amazing choice.

[Sengoku Strider]

When was the last time the Americans here felt any of the candidates reflected what they wanted to see from society?

I mean look, I've been saying - probably in this very thread - for years that a two party system is just a duopoly by any other name. The classic minimum number of balance is three.

[Sima Tuna]

Where is our Liu Bei?

Spoiler

[Sengoku Strider]

You get orange Dong Zhuo instead.

[BulletMagnet]

So what's supposed to make a lefty voter excited to vote for him?

This is going to sound harsher than I intend it to, but if you won't vote for someone unless they make you excited to do so then you need to take politics more seriously.

Speaking for myself, I have many, many, many problems with Biden and the Dem establishment at large, and absolutely feel the same frustration you do that the main argument in their favor is "the others will be even worse", but the unfortunate reality is that is the truth, in the worst possible way, and for the moment it's about all we've got. Even if you discount the (too-modest, but still real) positive moves that the current administration has made in a handful of areas - I'll cite its ongoing actions against junk fees as an example - just remember that not only would the GOP completely eradicate the CFPB in an instant if given the chance, the Supreme Court is, at this very moment, chomping at the bit to utterly demolish literally every single government agency, and Trump's justices - those with stolen seats and and otherwise - will have been the deciding factor if they do it. And that's just the tip of the goddamn iceberg.

Yes, in any number of different and infuriating ways Biden sucks ass and so do the Democrats. But they're the only ones who will actually concede elections they lose, and as I've said before anyone who doesn't consider that the deciding factor in who they vote for has no right to call anybody else "a fundamental threat to the nation and all it stands for".

[BryanM]

Speaking for myself, I have many, many, many problems with Biden and the Dem establishment at large, and absolutely feel the same frustration you do that the main argument in their favor is "the others will be even worse"

You voted for Bernie Sanders in the last two primaries, right?

This is a real flashback to the first couple years of this thread where I nagged people about how caring about the general election is for schmucks. Only like six states even matter, and if you're not in Texas or Michigan your vote will matter very little even if you live in one of those.

But your vote actually impacts the final score in a primary.


... man, Fetterman really was a bullshitter, huh. Really raises morale when you can never vote against a bank, telecom, or the apocalypse.

[Sengoku Strider]

The "Both parties are the same" thing kinda falls apart once you compare the tone of the conversations their followers are having.

Unless you've got a line on terrifying apocalyptic 6-fingered messiah Biden art I can customize with my own name.



Which would be kind of hilarious.

[Sima Tuna]

Horrifying AI art can always be found.

Spoiler

Remember that Dark Brandon meme?