Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[Ikaruga11]

Darker isn't necessarily worse.

I would love to play the Wii in 480p RGBHV and HDMI though.

[Lawfer]

So will this be the case when taking RGBHV from analoge version of both the the Wii and GC mods? i.e. is this darker signal across all analogue outputs? If so, I wonder if it would be possible to bring the levels of both mods up to the DC/PS2 levels?

Wii Analog RGB output is slightly brighter than Analog Component though, the mod is supposed to tap directly from the Wii digital signal, so the output from the mod should be at least of the same brightness level as that of the analog RGB output.

Here is a video of the mod:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXH6-pWjEk0

[andykara2003]

My main draw is RGBHV via VGA as it would mean I could remove my transcoder from the chain (All my 31Khz CRTs input via a VGA socket).

the output from the mod should be at least of the same brightness level as that of the analog RGB output.

According to a couple of people, the output from the analogue version of GCvideo is darker than the official component cables though.

[Lawfer]

My main draw is RGBHV via VGA as it would mean I could remove my transcoder from the chain (All my 31Khz CRTs input via a VGA socket).

The mod if for digital though (HDMI/DVI-D), VGA is analog.

[andykara2003]

Am I not right that there will be an analogue version of the mods for both GC and Wii from Citrus?

[Lawfer]

Am I not right that there will be an analogue version of the mods for both GC and Wii from Citrus?

Possibly? I haven't heard anything about it though, from what I seen online the talks are about HDMI/DVI. Why would you want an analog version though? The Wii is already outputting analog through Composite/S-Video/Component and RGB whitout any mod?

[andykara2003]

I'm pretty sure analogue is on the cards for Wii at least (?). The reason being that the Wii outputs quite a rough component quality - the hope being that we can improve it for people with CRTs etc. Maybe I'm completely off base - I messaged Citrus to check..

[Lawfer]

I'm pretty sure analogue is on the cards for Wii at least (?). The reason being that the Wii outputs quite a rough component quality - the hope being that we can improve it for people with CRTs etc.

The roughness of the output comes from the Wii itself I am afraid, 480i RGB is only slightly better than 480i Component on my PAL CPU-60 Wii, it might just be the higher brightness + native color space that makes it "look slightly better" since the PAL Wii has to transcode RGB to YPbPr. But overall they are both rough if you compare it to other consoles.

The point of the mod is to get digital output from the console, so:

480p digital RGB >HDMI> Display

or

480p digital RGB+Digital Audio >HDMI> Receiver >HDMI> Display

It will also be better for upscaling purposes, if you have a Framemeister, an Optoma HD3000 or a Crystalio II.

[andykara2003]

Are you sure? From what I've read on this forum and elsewhere the RGB output is generally regarded as being much better. People use it for emulating games @ 240p and say the quality is pretty good. If this is the case, wouldn't the problem lie in the component encoding?


EDIT - checking out RetroRGB's page, RGB doesn't necessarily offer any improvement, at least in 480i.

Either way, are you absolutely *positive* that the poor Wii component quality is not down to the component encoding and is therefore unfixable?

[citrus3000psi]

Here is my road map.

GCHDMI - DONE
GCDual - Tested and working prototype. New boards (small revisions) w/ new qsb on the way. If confirmed working then all done.

WiiHDMI - Boards and QSB on the way.
WiiDual - Partial prototype design done. Will finish up soon as GCDual was confirmed working.

GCPlug - Fun little side project. If doesn't work, I probably wont go any farther. If it works, then great.

There is no point to having an analogue only version for these. As the footprint of the PCB will not be any smaller (no cost savings) then the Dual boards. If you don't want the HDMI portion, just don't solder in the HDMI connector (Wii) or FFC connector (GC).

I can control the brightness level on the analogue signals on the hardware side of things at the DAC. I had plans of trying to match the official GC component cables. I make it possible to wire in a toggle switch or pot I suppose.

[Lawfer]

Are you sure? From what I've read on this forum the RGB output is generally regarded as being much better. People use it for emulating games @ 240p. If this is the case, wouldn't the problem lie in the component encoding?

No it's nothing like that:

RGB: Brighter+Native Color Space

YPbPr: Darker+Transcoded by the Wii

It doesn't fix the roughness or anything. Of course I prefer RGB though since it's an upgrade, however we are talking about 480i here, as 480p is limited to YPbPr. If you want to upscale to 1080p or 4K, you will gonna want 480p for best results and that's where the mod comes in. I tried upscaling Xenoblade Chronicles from YPbPr 480p to 1080p with my Optoma HD3000 to play on my 1080p LCD, results were not so great that it's just not worth it, might as well just send 480p to the TV itself, but the HDMI mod would allow for better upscaling results (hopefully).

GCDual - Tested and working prototype. New boards (small revisions) w/ new qsb on the way. If confirmed working then all done.

WiiDual - Partial prototype design done. Will finish up soon as GCDual was confirmed working.

GCPlug

What are these?

[andykara2003]

Here is my road map.

GCHDMI - DONE
GCDual - Tested and working prototype. New boards (small revisions) w/ new qsb on the way. If confirmed working then all done.

WiiHDMI - Boards and QSB on the way.
WiiDual - Partial prototype design done. Will finish up soon as GCDual was confirmed working.

Perfect thanks Citrus! An analogue output from both consoles is really appreciated. (Lawfer - I guess dual means digital+analogue?)

Would you be able to clarify whether the poor component quality from the Wii is inherent to the console (before analogue conversion) or down to the component encoding?

[Ikaruga11]

I'm pretty sure YCbCr/YPbPr is the native color space for the GameCube and Wii, and PAL models can transcode RGB from it.

[citrus3000psi]

What are these?

Look a page or two back, I explain them.

[andykara2003]

Lawfer - looking back at the thread, GCDual and WiiDual are RGB+HDMI - so all options are covered for both consoles.

[Lawfer]

I'm pretty sure YCbCr/YPbPr is the native color space for the GameCube and Wii, and PAL models transcode RGB from it.

Component is the native output of DVD, RGB is the native output for games, not sure why they would go for YPbPr as the native output for a console that doesn't even play DVD, but Nintendo has done weirder things before.

But from what I read online is that for the PAL Wii the native color space is RGB.

What are these?

Look a page or two back, I explain them.

Lawfer - looking back at the thread, GCDual and WiiDual are RGB+HDMI - so all options are covered for both consoles.

Thanks!

[andykara2003]

No worries :)

I'm still not convinced 100% that the rough component output is due to the console itself rather than the quality of the component encoder though. If anyone has concrete info I'd love to hear..

[citrus3000psi]

No worries

I'm still not convinced 100% that the rough component output is due to the console itself rather than the quality of the component encoder though. If anyone has concrete info I'd love to hear..

Later Wii revisions have better component then earlier so I'd suspect the encoder.

[andykara2003]

If you're right, we could well expect a higher quality 480p analogue signal from WiiDual than the original component output - this is my hope anyway.

[Lawfer]

No worries

I'm still not convinced 100% that the rough component output is due to the console itself rather than the quality of the component encoder though. If anyone has concrete info I'd love to hear..

Later Wii revisions have better component then earlier so I'd suspect the encoder.

1. Can we expect similar brightness/luminance levels to the official Wii RGB Scart output from the WiiDual analog output?

2. Will it offer multiformat output option like the Beharbros Toro (RGsB, RGBs, RGBHV)?

[Extrems]

The native color space is YCbCr. Wii hardware is the same in all regions.

The component video quality is down to the video encoder.

The brightness can be fixed with calibration you should be doing in the first place.

[andykara2003]

I expect Citrus will have the same output style for the Wii as he's doing for the Gamecube. Here's what he said about the GC earlier in the thread:

You are not going to get anything better than GC-Video. The board already outputs lag free Component/RGBs/RGBHV/HDMI. I plan on getting a set of component cables so I can match the brightness levels of the original cables.

[citrus3000psi]

1. Can we expect similar brightness/luminance levels to the official Wii RGB Scart output from the WiiDual analog output?

2. Will it offer multiformat output option like the Beharbros Toro (RGsB, RGBs, RGBHV)?

As I don't have a Pal Wii I can't check this. (Unless someone wants to send me a PAL Wii )

At the very least I will match component brightness levels.

SOG is not supported; well it could be. But for the few people who want to use it, sorry The other formats are fine.

[Extrems]

As I don't have a Pal Wii I can't check this. (Unless someone wants to send me a PAL Wii )

All you need is homebrew software that can be configured into a PAL video mode.

[andykara2003]

I don't know if it's worth going to all that trouble is it? The Wii's RGB is fractionally brighter than it's component, so wouldn't it just be as well to also just make the GCvideo analogue signal fractionally brighter than the Wii's existing component?

[Lawfer]

At the very least I will match component brightness levels.

Well as long as the brightness is not lower than that of the official component output then I am good, thanks.

SOG is not supported; well it could be. But for the few people who want to use it, sorry The other formats are fine.

So it will offer RGBs then? Great!

SOG is not important, it was just an example of different formats, what I really wanted was RGBs for my broadcast monitor and you're right SOG is not used by many people, the only time I use it is for PS2 when outputting games in 480p.

[Ikaruga11]

Component on the GameCube and Wii are both capable of outputting 240p, 480i and 480p.

Will RGB and HDMI be able to output 240p, 480i and 480p on the GameCube and Wii as well?

[Unseen]

So it will offer RGBs then? Great!

Nope, no Sync-on-Blue. RGBS will be available though and RGsB could be implemented with a few firmware changes.

Will RGB and HDMI be able to output 240p, 480i and 480p on the GameCube and Wii as well?

Have you read anything posted in this thread except the last page?

[Extrems]

Component on the GameCube and Wii are both capable of outputting 240p, 480i and 480p.

Will RGB and HDMI be able to output 240p, 480i and 480p on the GameCube and Wii as well?

It'll even support exotic video modes the AVE-RVL doesn't like.

[Lawfer]

So it will offer RGBs then? Great!

Nope, no Sync-on-Blue. RGBS will be available though and RGsB could be implemented with a few firmware changes.

I meant 4 wires, RED, GREED, BLUE and EXT SYNC.