Under Defeat HD

[m.sniffles.esq]

Honestly, my DC still works/is hooked up so I can play UD whenever (if one ever wonders why Sega failed at the console game, making one that lasts 24 years may have been their first mistake). But I actually really liked the HD version. I know the concept of 'wide-vert' makes some people froth. But I thought it looked really good, and I appreciate that they made everything a smidgen different/tougher, so it was like playing a familiar game that was somehow new (meaning, I couldn't muscle memory my way through the first three levels while eating a ham sandwich)

BUT, my 360 shit the bed back when Barrack was still running things (now microsoft, they know how to make money in the console game)

[Lemnear]

It looks, okay, very playable. The BGM Boosted makes me anxious during the game.
However:

Spoiler

What does mean exactly "Response"? By default it was set to 30% and can't go down to less.

[mojilove]

What does mean exactly "Response"? By default it was set to 30% and can't go down to less.

I don't have the game myself, but the description on the screen says input sensitivity (presumably for analogue sticks) - maybe it sets the deadzone

[DenimDemon]

Having a blast with the Switch port. Very responsive, good looking and smooth.
Don't know how it compares with the previous releases, haven't boot any of DC or 360 ports in a while but yeah Switch ports seems great so far.
I don't like to play my STG with the pro controller but the control nature of this one make it very playable and fun with Nintendo's pad.
Forgot how much I love UD. And yeah military stgs >>>>>>>> everything else. ( playing a ton of ACA Mustangs lately)

[Lemnear]

The strange combination of the new BGM has inspired me to try similar experiments with other games.
I never thought it was possible to this extent.

However in Stage 2 with the new BGM, the in-game voicelines almost sound like they're from the song itself, it's a delirious psychedelic trip with a WW2 twist

[albertredneck]

It looks, okay, very playable. The BGM Boosted makes me anxious during the game.
However:

Spoiler

What does mean exactly "Response"? By default it was set to 30% and can't go down to less.

So no engurish?

[Steven]

Well, it says 入力感度を調整します, so that's input sensitivity, or, in other words, the responsiveness of the analog stick, so it's not really a bad translation, just an incomplete one.

Stuff like this is why you should learn Japanese! It makes it much easier! It's a scary-looking language, but it's really not that bad, just time-consuming.

[Klatrymadon]

I forgot what a monster the big red DLC chopper can be. Its main shot incorporates homing missiles which seem to do about half the damage of the blue rocket subweapon, and that's the one I stick with, so the screen is often being cleared before the enemies can do much, at least in the first half of the game. You can take out the second boss before the control tower even comes into view. Might have to try for a 1CC with this one.

[jehu]

I have this on PS4 and Switch. Some impressions:

TLDR? It's a solid port of the arcade original. Responsive controls. The new OST is jarring and out-of-place, but the three other great OSTs make up for it. The widescreen New Order Mode is a sub-optimal way to play, and New Order Plus mode is even worse. The port improves on some, but not all, of the shortcomings of the PS3/360 era Under Defeat HD. I recommend.

More details:

If you were paying attention to this one, the big question was: is it going to fix some of the issues with the old Under Defeat HD port?

Spoiler

If you want to read up on these problems, look for Kiken's posts in the Under Defeat HD thread on this site.

The answer is: yes and no.

For example, if you had Under Defeat HD in TATE, the final boss's attacks would cause a huge amount of slowdown - trivializing a few otherwise difficult patterns. This is fixed.

There were some changes to the color and appearance of bullets from the Naomi original. This port uses the Under Defeat HD bullets. It's a matter of taste, but I'd have preferred the original.

There was an issue with certain enemies firing too quickly upon entering the screen, or even shooting from off-screen. This appears to be fixed.

There was a sound-balance issue. The shot noise was way too loud and interfered with players' ability to hear important audio cues for the option recharge. This is also fixed.

There was a music fade-in quirk in the beginning of stage 5. Enemy sounds come into the mix too abruptly. Not fixed.

I'm strongly convinced that the best way to play Under Defeat is to just stick with Original Arcade, default helicopter. The 'formerly DLC' ships trivialize much of the game; it does not feel like a well-crafted experience with the red helicopter especially. Perhaps as a kind of novice mode it's nice to have, but even then - not really.

Moreover, the New Order mode relies on being able to swivel your helicopter far, far to the left and right. It's a simple design bandaid for adapting the game to widescreen, and it really needed a much more careful, calculated design approach. Lazy tuning, honestly. Aiming your option is a bit of a nightmare. It's awkward and, again, not a particularly honed experience. The inordinate strength of the non-standard helicopters are just further bandaids to disguise the hackneyed design. New Order Plus mode is even worse. There's a system that allows endless enemies to spawn in while you play, and - afaik - there's already a counterstop uploaded to YouTube. Broken arrange, completely pointless.

As a means of playing Original Arcade, though, the new PS4/Switch port is solid. I've found the controls are very responsive - lag is acceptably low, even on Switch. It's good to see the most significant problems with HD patched.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The inordinate strength of the non-standard helicopters are just further bandaids to disguise the hackneyed design. New Order Plus mode is even worse. There's a system that allows endless enemies to spawn in while you play, and - afaik - there's already a counterstop uploaded to YouTube. Broken arrange, completely pointless.

The added helicopters are meant to spice things up a bit, but are so suboptimal for score that they're obviously not intended for players like yourself who want to take the game more seriously. They're fine I think, the white heli that can't charge attack and instead gets subshots based on the weapon chosen actually feels worse than the default ship, especially in New Order where the green Cannon weapon received a significant buff, firing far more shots and being better at tracking enemies.

The red helicopter is clearly intended to be something like the Eagle in Giga Wing Generations, which was too slow to properly collect medals but whose homing missiles were so absurdly strong it made for a pretty forgiving 1cc. Under Defeat is no slouch for survival play, so having an easier option that's not outright a Novice Mode is a fine thing to do.

New Order is fine even in widescreen, I played it a bunch without without issues, without taking advantage of using a twin stick. Your ship can rotate far more than in the arcade mode, meaning with proper planning it works fine. New Order Plus originally debuted in arcades which doesn't generally have analog stick setups, I got to play it once. I don't know how the enemy spawning works and the added stuff is admittedly very weird, but I also don't have enough exposure with it to know what you're supposed to be doing. Probably fine, if a bit odd for an arrange, once you know what's going on. New Order Plus is definitely a bit weird going in blind though.

[Steven]

So given a choice between this, NAOMI, and Dreamcast, which is it?

[dmk1198]

So given a choice between this, NAOMI, and Dreamcast, which is it?

Good question

[m.sniffles.esq]

So I thought ordering a physical from japan would allow me to sidestep all the usual issues that physical releases seem to face in the US lately

Not quite... Amazon has moved my "arrive by" date twice. First by nine days (not the end of the world), now by 20 more

I canceled and went through play-asia (who says it's in stock). We'll see if this bites me in the ass...

[ThundergunExpress]

I had no issues with Amazon Japan so I guess I'm lucky but I did preorder well ahead of release.

What I really want to comment about is playasia becoming difficult to deal with. I have a game that I preordered with them that is delayed who knows how long. Why would you sell preorders you know you can't fulfill?

Most games I want to buy are out of stock with the 1-2weeks delay being mentioned but this date is vague at best and they keep pushing it out without explanation or even a new date provided. I have one of those games that I purchased on November 15th with several dates provided having passed quietly and with no updates. I really don't recommend dealing with them anymore on games not in stock.

[Steven]

After Amazon Japan started offering international shipping for most things and given that Amazon Japan has historically usually/sometimes had lower prices than Playasia, there's almost no point in using Playasia anymore. The only times that Playasia is relevant now are when Amazon has a thing that they won't send to your country and when Playasia is the company that's publishing the game. Otherwise...

[ThundergunExpress]

After Amazon Japan started offering international shipping for most things and given that Amazon Japan has historically usually/sometimes had lower prices than Playasia, there's almost no point in using Playasia anymore. The only times that Playasia is relevant now are when Amazon has a thing that they won't send to your country and when Playasia is the company that's publishing the game. Otherwise...

I agree with this. I'd even go so far as to say it's my last stop after VGP, Amazon Japan, and even eBay. Once in a while they have cheaper prices than Amazon Japan (speaking mostly about visual novels), but still- yes on the whole Amazon Japan is cheaper.

[Steven]

I'm kind of amazed that Amazon Japan offering overseas shipping for most games didn't kill Playasia outright. Still, they managed to survive somehow and they do now serve as a publisher, so there is that.

[hamfighterx]

One big difference: Amazon.jp has relatively expensive shipping to the US. If you're not in a rush, Playasia has very cheap slow shipping - and even FREE shipping if you spend $100. Very often, that means that once shipping is included, PA orders for the same things will cost less for me than Amazon.jp. I do order from both though, depending on price and availability.

In fact, just comparing right now - I could order the Switch JP Under Defeat standard edition for under $40 USD shipped from Playasia (economy shipping, which tends to take like 2-3 weeks to get to me). On Amazon, same thing is ~$44.35 (¥4056 game + ¥2600 shipping). Faster shipping that prob takes nearly a week, but they don't offer any cheaper international shipping options.

That being said, ordered my Under Defeat LE Switch version from Amazon and I received it on Friday (west coast US). Did take about a week from release date though, typically I find Amazon.jp orders show up to me a little sooner.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Yeah, play-asia ended up being a little cheaper due to shipping. And it's not like I'm in a hurry or anything. But when you push shipping a week, then a month, when's it going to end (both of which, I had to look up myself, they didn't even notify me or anything)?

With the whole 'pre-order' game... Both systems have merits. Amazon not dinging your card til it ships is nice in case something gets fucked up (or they seem to fuck up, as in this case). Play-asia dinging your card immediately can be nice because you don't have to think about it anymore.

On a personal note, play-asia was in this niche YEARS before amazon decided it was leaving money on the table (and while no one is perfect, they did a reasonably good job at it). And while I'm certain Jeff Bezos will succeed in grinding this entire planet to dust while he searches for a new one to destroy, the lost causes are the ones worth fighting for, y'know?

[TransatlanticFoe]

Yeah I always wait for Play Asia to report stock as being in their warehouse and have never had a problem when I've done that (I wait for a few things to make the expensive fast shipping worthwhile, typically arrives in the UK within a few days). They've slipped a lot lately outside of "in stock" - they used to have expected arrival dates or even just broad timelines, but now a lot of stuff is simply available to buy with no stock status.

[Some-Mist]

I started shying away from play-asia after I preordered demon's souls a couple months before release and the a couple days before they sent me an email saying they didn't have enough stock to fulfill my order. I ran to ebay to buy from a seller there and had to wait a week for it to arrive after the release date, which was probably quicker than if P-A did fill the order

back in the xbox 360 days, I used videogameimports which was a little bit expensive, but I ordered most of my cave shmups from there. the owner was took care of me on a couple of occasions. he doesn't really keep much stock any more when I check every blue moon

[m.sniffles.esq]

Play-Asia shipped, so in this case: 'Play-Asia > Amazon'. Sorry Jeff, you still have much to learn.

What was the place that started just about the same time as Play-Asia but was located in Queens (ny)?
They kind of annoyed me because they only did flat-rate shipping. Meaning they wanted like $12 to ship a dreamcast game to... Queens. And when I emailed saying "Look, I can hop on the N train and just pick it up" they acted like this was the craziest, most unreasonable request they ever received.

[Strider77]

What (native) resolution is the PS5 version running in?

[dmk1198]

10% discount still running
3000 yen gift card on play Asia £19 was enough with points to get me the game

[hamfighterx]

What was the place that started just about the same time as Play-Asia but was located in Queens (ny)?

NCSX (or NCS, National Console Support)? They were from Queens, but they were around well before Playasia. I was getting import Saturn games from them back in the mid-90s. Hell, got my import Dreamcast from them in 1998 and likely the majority of my DC catalog. Probably got my day 1 Under Defeat DC (that I still have) from them.

I kinda loved them lol. But I never asked to swing by to pick something up haha. I don't recall them only using flat rate shipping, so maybe we're not thinking of the same place. Eventually NCSX transitioned to focus more on figures and stuff, but they were still a staple for me into the PS3 generation. I think they might be completely gone now (but maybe not)?

[m.sniffles.esq]

NCSX (or NCS, National Console Support)? They were from Queens, but they were around well before Playasia

That was them. I didn't mean to imply they were bad, just pricey considering.

(And maybe my request was super strange, it seemed economical and pragmatic to me. I mean, I once sold an old powerbook on ebay, and the buyer ended up being in Brooklyn. So I asked if they just wanted to meet up n Manhattan, and they were like "are you fucking crazy?" Okay... give me $25 so I can needlessly tax our overtaxed postal service...)

[rampaging-sloth]

I kinda loved them lol. But I never asked to swing by to pick something up haha. I don't recall them only using flat rate shipping, so maybe we're not thinking of the same place. Eventually NCSX transitioned to focus more on figures and stuff, but they were still a staple for me into the PS3 generation. I think they might be completely gone now (but maybe not)?

They are still around. i too got the majority of my import systems, games and region mods done from them in the 90s. i am not sure if Peter and Susan are still around but the online store is. Their service was always great. They could track down anything you wanted pcbs, games, .... i do not recall them using flat rate shipping either.

[DrTrouserPlank]

So how bad is this to 1cc the first loop without wanting to find something tall to jump from? I tried a long time ago and it didn't happen.

Does this require a strict route to clear or can you just wing it with a bit of knowledge and good dodging? I seem to remember the final stage needing some routing and speedkilling for sure.

[Lemnear]

So how bad is this to 1cc the first loop without wanting to find something tall to jump from? I tried a long time ago and it didn't happen.

Does this require a strict route to clear or can you just wing it with a bit of knowledge and good dodging? I seem to remember the final stage needing some routing and speedkilling for sure.

no speed kill necessary, I don't remember doing anything too special other than memorizing a few key points (Boss 2, a part in Stage 3, Mid-Boss 5, Boss 5) and dodging well.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

So how bad is this to 1cc the first loop without wanting to find something tall to jump from? I tried a long time ago and it didn't happen.

It's harder than every single CAVE game you've ever complained about, including Ketsui.