Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[citrus3000psi]

What about an RGB-only plug-and-play?

Apart from cost, a combo plug-and-play unit isn't super important. It makes sense in an internal installation, because that lets you put in an HDMI while still wiring up the multi av port, and the installation is sort of permanent. That is, if you install the HDMI version, then if you decide you want to use RGB, you'd have to do a bunch of work to remove the HDMI version and install the RGB version. So a combo unit there makes sense. However, for external use, if you want to switch between HDMI and RGB, you can just unplug the HDMI unit and plug the RGB unit in. It's still not as convenient as it could be, but it's a few seconds to switch instead of a few hours like the internal approach.

I can probably make something work but I have some concerns.

-Do I need to worry about audio, specifically digital audio.
-The size increases with the RGB. I can remove the HDMI connector, but there are no other extra parts added on for HDMI.
-How do I handle the RGBs connector in this scenario. Or do I wire a scart cable directly to the PCB.
-Is this 3d printed case even a good solution for this type of production.

-Will GCVideoX have RGB model? As GCVideoX will have a superior case.


With plug n plays on the horizon are my internal mods even warranted? How many people would still pay for an internal (HDMI+RGB) mod kit?

[Ikaruga11]

With plug n plays on the horizon are my internal mods even warranted? How many people would still pay for an internal (HDMI+RGB) mod kit?

I would pay for an internal mod. I still want to use the official component cables, along with HDMI and RGB.

[leonk]

I think there are a lot of good reasons for internal mod over external.

- OSD control using controller (using tv remote is awkward)
- more secure

Also, competent installers provide extra services above and beyond during install:

- full cleaning of console
- lubrication of open switch
- potential install of region free chip (important if you want one of the exclusive japan colors)
- laser validation and tuning / cleaning

[DoctorPain99]

What about an RGB-only plug-and-play?

Apart from cost, a combo plug-and-play unit isn't super important. It makes sense in an internal installation, because that lets you put in an HDMI while still wiring up the multi av port, and the installation is sort of permanent. That is, if you install the HDMI version, then if you decide you want to use RGB, you'd have to do a bunch of work to remove the HDMI version and install the RGB version. So a combo unit there makes sense. However, for external use, if you want to switch between HDMI and RGB, you can just unplug the HDMI unit and plug the RGB unit in. It's still not as convenient as it could be, but it's a few seconds to switch instead of a few hours like the internal approach.

I can probably make something work but I have some concerns.

-Do I need to worry about audio, specifically digital audio.
-The size increases with the RGB. I can remove the HDMI connector, but there are no other extra parts added on for HDMI.
-How do I handle the RGBs connector in this scenario. Or do I wire a scart cable directly to the PCB.
-Is this 3d printed case even a good solution for this type of production.

-Will GCVideoX have RGB model? As GCVideoX will have a superior case.


With plug n plays on the horizon are my internal mods even warranted? How many people would still pay for an internal (HDMI+RGB) mod kit?

Badassconsoles claims GCVideoX will have an analog version, but who even knows if and when that will come to fruition....

Digital audio on an analog GCVideo plug and play would certainly be cool in my opinion, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if few others would want to use this feature.

[andykara2003]

I'd like a plug & play of the analogue RGB version so as to keep the console unmodded. Am I right that the RGB version can do 480p RGB and component?

[citrus3000psi]

I'd like a plug & play of the analogue RGB version so as to keep the console unmodded. Am I right that the RGB version can do 480p RGB and component?

Yes it can. I ran it last night on my prototype board.

[gordon-creAtive]

I'm still waiting for someone actually cloning that component cable. As far as I followed this thread all attempts seem to focus either on RGB or HDMI and boards combining everything.

[citrus3000psi]

I'm still waiting for someone actually cloning that component cable. As far as I followed this thread all attempts seem to focus either on RGB or HDMI and boards combining everything.

You are not going to get anything better than GC-Video. The board already outputs lag free Component/RGBs/RGBHV/HDMI. I plan on getting a set of component cables so I can match the brightness levels of the original cables.

[Unseen]

I doubt I'll ever design a plug in play with hdmi and rgb. As I don't think I will ever be satisfied with the size it will be.

You can get the FPGA in a BGA package to save some space and there is probably some other video DAC in a smaller package on the market.

You could also drop the DAC completely and just use a few resistors (minimum 3, more are better), but that only works on devices that have a suitable low-pass filter on their input. This could be improved upon by including a video buffer with such a filter, but then you're back to an additonal IC for the analog output and I also haven't tested that idea at all.

[Guspaz]

The problem is mass production. The only group in this community with any experience mass producing retro console component cables with active electronics (or even without, for that matter) is HD Retrovision, who produced their Genesis and SNES component cables in the thousands. The only person with any plans to mass produce the GameCube digital connector (3D printing will work for prototype grade stuff or very small production runs) is BadAssConsoles, who won't be using any cables at all (short or long) in his solution because he feels them to be a point of failure. In short, as it stands, nobody will be mass producing actual component video cables for the GameCube, the closest you're going to get is a box that you hang off the back of the system that you can plug Wii component cables into.

HD Retrovision doesn't plan to produce GameCube component cables because they don't have a source for the connectors, and they have zero interest in the large investment that building the injection tooling that would be required. If somebody was mass producing the connectors for affordable prices, then I think they could probably be convinced to produce GameCube component cables, but that seems highly unlikely to happen. BAC probably wouldn't be interested in selling his connectors because he's sunk a ton of money into the project and justifiably wants to try to recoup that.

I guess it's still possible that somebody might do a very small production run of component cables using a 3D printed connector like citrus' with the cable soldered right in, but I think that demand would far outstrip supply.

[citrus3000psi]

Agreed, the plug n play design was me just seeing what I can make. I don't think its a feasible production quality product.

Once I build one and verify it works, I will release the needed items to build your own. Maybe I'll make a batch of 5-10 and sell them. IDK. I doubt I'll make an RGB design in a plug n play, as I want to start moving on from the GC.

I did look at some BGA packages, there is an 8x8 fpga that will work. But at that size I need 2mm (2.5mm might work) drill holes and pcb prototyping costs jump way up.

The GCDual is what I plan on putting in on my gamecube so that is where I planned to stop with the gamecube. I have Wii hdmi prototype coming in as well.

[andykara2003]

If you do end up making a few analogue plug & play for GC & Wii I'd definitely be up for one of each..

[tjstogy]

Yeah an analog RGB plug n play would be sick!!! Ideally something where you could use a scart cable instead of component. Not sure if this is possible, but for my PVM setup w/ my scart splitter it would rock.

[AetherSmyth]

I'll admit, an analog Plug-n-Play version might be of interest to me, too, but I wouldn't want to hold you up if you've got other projects you'd rather work on.

In any case, the barriers mentioned to actually selling any kind of PnP solution indeed seem pretty much insurmountable without a huge investment for custom manufacturing. I'm looking at getting a copy of collingall's connector pattern 3D-printed for my own use, as mentioned previously, but I know that I move my GameCube so little that I can safely count on the connector seeing well under 100 insert/remove cycles over its whole lifetime. For buyers looking for equipment for Smash tourneys or the like, where it's constantly being hauled around and rearranged, I would have definite durability concerns for anything less than a professionally-manufactured case and connector.

If you do end up making a few analogue plug & play for GC & Wii I'd definitely be up for one of each..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think PnP is possible on the Wii, since it was just the DOL-001 GameCube that had the digital port.

Yeah an analog RGB plug n play would be sick!!! Ideally something where you could use a scart cable instead of component. Not sure if this is possible, but for my PVM setup w/ my scart splitter it would rock.

I think the standard practice with the analog version is to output on a Wii Multi-out port, so with any analog GCVideo, PnP or otherwise, you could take your pick of YPbPr component or RGB SCART by setting the appropriate jumper on the board.

[andykara2003]

If you do end up making a few analogue plug & play for GC & Wii I'd definitely be up for one of each..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think PnP is possible on the Wii, since it was just the DOL-001 GameCube that had the digital port.

You're absolutely right - had a momentary brain lapse there!

[Guspaz]

I think the standard practice with the analog version is to output on a Wii Multi-out port, so with any analog GCVideo, PnP or otherwise, you could take your pick of YPbPr component or RGB SCART by setting the appropriate jumper on the board.

I think that (using the Wii connector) is more BAC's personal preference, and it's one that's a little debatable now that good Wii cables are getting harder and harder to find. IIRC, Ste had reported that Monoprice's Wii cable was of questionable quality, and the OEM cable was discontinued along with the Wii U if not earlier. Arguably, multi-av connectors make as much sense for internal mods, because the socket is already there on the cube (no external modification required). You can just use existing RGB SCART cables with no components in them, and if you really need RCA leads for component video, you can use an adapter, or ask somebody like RCA to make a cable, or even just do it yourself.

[bigbadboaz]

FWIW, I have had zero issues with the Monoprice Wii cable over seven years and two TVs. It was also a fantastic deal at $6, like most MP cables.

Of course, no guarantees that whatever they're selling now is identical to what I got back in 2010.

[Guspaz]

I'm sure it works decently, Ste's complaints about such things are usually related to excess crosstalk, poor shielding, EMI issues, that sort of thing.

I mean, the cables cost $2.81 for a six foot long five conductor cable, something's gotta give, like shielding and material. They work well enough, but they're also not high quality, and Monoprice probably won't keep them forever now that the Wii U is dead. But community made retro cables, those things are probably going to be around longer.

EDIT: Then again, it's only $4.36 for their full-blown all-single-core-coaxial 5-lead component cable, so who knows what they made the Wii one out of.

[FBX]

Superb dressing down of MetalJesusRocks and zeldaxpro on the latest retro roundtable stream. I want to strap MJR down in a chair and force him to watch starting from the 1-hour mark.

[gordon-creAtive]

There's somebody trying to get rid of his Plug'n'Play 2.0 and even make profit out of it by selling it for 400USD: http://www.ebay.de/itm/263166935648

I'm sure it works flawlessly but unfortunately no returns as I will be away at school soon. Also, you do buy this at your own risk as very few people have reported it can short out your Gamecube if not used properly.

At the Retro Roundtable René wasn't sure why there are 12V available on the port, I guess this is for TVs with SCART input to signal them the aspect ratio of the content. Citing from the Wikipedia page on SCART:

Pin 8
Status & Aspect Ratio up

0–2 V → off
+5–8 V → on/16:9
+9.5–12 V → on/4:3

[Extrems]

The 12V is used on the D-Terminal cable.

[nmalinoski]

I can probably make something work but I have some concerns.

-Do I need to worry about audio, specifically digital audio.
-The size increases with the RGB. I can remove the HDMI connector, but there are no other extra parts added on for HDMI.
-How do I handle the RGBs connector in this scenario. Or do I wire a scart cable directly to the PCB.

If we're talking about a box, with SCART or RCA connectors, that hangs out of the Digital AV port, like the existing GCVideo Plug'N'Plays, I'd be worried about stress on the port from the weight of heavy-duty cables.

For a combined unit, I still think an external breakout box, much like those made for the Dreamcast, would be ideal. You could make the external unit as large as needed for any combination of outputs (HDMI, SCART, RCA, HD15+3.5mm, TOSLINK); and, because the box would be connected to the console with a dongle, use of heavy-duty cables won't put any stress on the Digital AV port.

Because it wouldn't be able to tap into the controller inputs like an internal solution, there would need to be two or more buttons on the box to access the OSD and toggle settings. (Frankly, I'm not a fan of the IR Remote solution.)

[Extrems]

You could tap the controller externally, but that's more connectors.

[andykara2003]

I still think an external breakout box, much like those made for the Dreamcast, would be ideal

Agreed.

[AetherSmyth]

A breakout box would be preferable if possible, and I'll definitely be examining the possibility if I end up going forward with trying to DIY a Plug-n-Play setup with an analog or GCDual board. The main issue with the idea is how long the pigtail between the digital port and the breakout box could be without causing issues; the one for my Kuro is maybe 10cm, but based on some of Unseen's earlier posts even that might be too long. Do we have any concrete numbers on a safe wire length between the digital port and the GCVideo?

[Unseen]

A breakout box would be preferable if possible, and I'll definitely be examining the possibility if I end up going forward with trying to DIY a Plug-n-Play setup with an analog or GCDual board. The main issue with the idea is how long the pigtail between the digital port and the breakout box could be without causing issues; the one for my Kuro is maybe 10cm, but based on some of Unseen's earlier posts even that might be too long. Do we have any concrete numbers on a safe wire length between the digital port and the GCVideo?

10cm could work - the cables on my dev cube were longer than that, but I sometime had to tweak their positioning to eliminate pixel noise.

Another option might be to add a buffer chip directly into the connector, possibly converting at least the critical signals to something that is better suited for long cables (LVDS?)

[AetherSmyth]

10cm could work - the cables on my dev cube were longer than that, but I sometime had to tweak their positioning to eliminate pixel noise.

Another option might be to add a buffer chip directly into the connector, possibly converting at least the critical signals to something that is better suited for long cables (LVDS?)

Good to know, and I'm sure that a shorter pigtail would be doable, as my main concern is just having enough flexibility to take the weight off of the digital connector. Unfortunately, doing any kind of electronics design is beyond my expertise; I can solder well enough to take care of my own modding and experiment with piecing together a couple of existing projects, but I'm ultimately a software guy at heart.

[Lawfer]

I'm still waiting for someone actually cloning that component cable. As far as I followed this thread all attempts seem to focus either on RGB or HDMI and boards combining everything.

You are not going to get anything better than GC-Video. The board already outputs lag free Component/RGBs/RGBHV/HDMI. I plan on getting a set of component cables so I can match the brightness levels of the original cables.

Even the original cables won't give you a great brightness level, the GameCube brightness with Component is darker than PS2, Dreamcast.

[Lawfer]

Even the original cables won't give you a great brightness level, the GameCube brightness with Component is darker than PS2, Dreamcast.

I noticed this for the first time yesterday, I checked a video comparison between s-video and component on the cube, and component was a heck of a lot darker. Like, not just a little bit darker

It's the same thing with the Wii, but just not as much, 480 Component is a little bit darker than 480 RGB (RGB is only available on PAL Wii). Not sure what this is due to though, maybe it has to do with the transcoder?

[andykara2003]

So will this be the case when taking RGBHV from analoge version of both the the Wii and GC mods? i.e. is this darker signal across all analogue outputs? If so, I wonder if it would be possible to bring the levels of both mods up to the DC/PS2 brightness levels?