The Gun Topic - Move all gun laws/rights discussions here!

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Garth Marenghi's Darkplace. Try YouTube.

[Edmond Dantes]

I'll look it up later.

There's a special bit of irony I just happened upon, by the way... Roo may actually have a point about Bronies being pro-gun.

I didn't read that entire topic but a lot of them are making essentially the same point that The Wrath of Seven made in his blog. Summed up by this quote:

From link:
According to the FBI, this is completely false. If I remember the stat correctly, over 80% of firearms used in murders and other illegal activities were acquired illegally (usually through theft or illegal purchase). Also, theoretically means nothing when real life facts prove otherwise. Gun crime is significantly cut down when faced with an armed victim. It goes up when strict gun controls laws are in place. See Chicago, DC, Detroit for a few examples of gun control backfiring.

And this image macro:



I especially love this response:

From link:

any robbers want my guns, please feel free to break into my house. I'll give you a personal demonstration of each and every one. Or if you want to go after my next door neighbor, who is a retired USSF Weapons Sergeant, and has an armory that could easily be used to overthrow a moderately-sized banana republic. Or you could go after my other neighbor who firmly believes that no one should have a gun.

...

... It's a special kind of sad that people who watch a children's cartoon are making the most rational arguments but people who play classic video games (and who should, honestly, be smarter) are being utterly idiotic about this subject.

You know what? I'm tempted to--as a test--create an account there and post some of Roo's responses just to see how badly they get ripped to shreds. It would be fun to watch.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

The stats might be worth examining - but I don't think a couple of condescending image macros and an indulgent fantasy scenario that appeals directly to emotion qualify as rational arguments.

[Edmond Dantes]

We've already had posts that tried to bring real facts and figures into the discussion. It didn't help. Some people are clearly way too emotional on this subject.

To be honest, the way this discussion played out just further convinces me that we need guns. To finally respond to an older post:

2. People aren't rational and sometimes need to be coerced for their own good--as is proven by everyone who would rather use name-calling and ad-hominems rather than present facts (which, I repeat, the anti-gun side HAS NOT DONE. EVER).

2. That reads worryingly like "some people need threatening with death or serious injury". Also that you and you alone can decide, without doubt, what is right and wrong - and use the threat of force to support that. Which frankly, sounds horrific.

It is horrific, but its also quite true. Do you think Carlos the Jackal would surrender to an unarmed person who politely asked him to surrender?

Do you think criminals would listen to policemen if all the police gave up their weapons?

Or again, look at this thread--Ed Oscuro was harming nobody, but he still got flamed. Now imagine if Ed had a means of physically harming everyone who posts on this forum, do you think anyone would dare throw flames or insinuations his way?

It's the same as why nobody threw mud or insults at Zhuge Liang or Sun Tzu--not only did those two have well-known accomplishments to give their words weight, but they lived in a time where you could kill people for pissing you off. This oddly resulted in greater intelligence and a higher level of civilization. On the internet, of course, there's no means of physical confrontation, so people like Skykid (who has actually been banned for his behavior once) can be assholes without fear.

You essentially can't have civilized behavior without the threat of violence. A lesson the internet proves time and time again.

[AntiFritz]

So what you're saying is, that guns solve everyone's problems?

[charlie chong]

it's a special kind of sad when humans are so scared of their fellow humans they think they need a gun.
some members of the earth's populace can't even be trusted with food without overeating to obesity yet somehow you think they should be trusted with guns.
i'm not being anti american either cos i don't think the population local to me should be trusted with guns either.they stab the shit out of each other with knives as it is. if they had guns which are even easier to use i can't even imagine what would go down.

i would say all this to your face no probs edmond.shoot me or punch me if you don't agree and see what happens.only an idiot would resort to physical violence over someone elses opinion.also your last paragraphs are so dumb i can't even believe you could type them.
enjoy your life as a "civilised" savage

(sweary word removed from here cos i shouldn't be so rude)

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

You essentially can't have civilized behavior without the threat of violence. A lesson the internet proves time and time again.

Is this the general consensus amongst bronies? Because I feel like taking a trip to the incinerator. (After all the goodbye plushie sex, naturally).

[BIL]

WTF, did icy clam just hijack Edmond's account?

Now imagine if Ed had a means of physically harming everyone who posts on this forum, do you think anyone would dare throw flames or insinuations his way?

They probably still would, Ed's way too classy a guy for punching people over the internet.

[charlie chong]

SO WHAT EDMOND WANTS IS A WORLD WHERE SOMEONE CAN SHEWT YOU FOR EXPRESSING AN OPINION THEY DON'T LIKE

FREEDOM

i have no problems with ed oscuro's opinions..at least he makes points and can see things from other peoples perspectives.

[NTSC-J]

they lived in a time where you could kill people for pissing you off. This oddly resulted in greater intelligence and a higher level of civilization... You essentially can't have civilized behavior without the threat of violence.

I don't like how everyone is ganging up on you and knocking your appearance, but for Christ's sake, man. Listen to yourself. Life must not be coming up Edmond if this is how you view people.

[charlie chong]

god were all so dumb.cos intelligence is always used for good ..oh wai

[Skykid]

so people like Skykid (who has actually been banned for his behavior once) can be assholes without fear.

Even though I stepped out of this conversation after seeing how much of a wreck you are on video, you continue to use my name to promote your inept form of argument like I'm some kind of ladder.

No-one agrees with you, you still don't understand why: give up. Brain cells are an important commodity, no point blowing the few you have left.

And stop putting everything in fucking quotes.

[Randorama]

So, time to invoke eugenics, I guess?

[BIL]

You're too late, I'm afraid.

I suppose if we were all thuggish assholes who'd resort to physical violence over forum scuffles, and we had the means of carrying out this violence, the atmosphere here would change significantly. Murdering/silencing one's opposition does tend to do that. And if the other guy is too well-armed or tough to be dissuaded, how about going after his family? That'd teach him to call you names, ROFL!!

[system11]

I see this has degenerated into personal attacks, as it was probably destined to do so.

My take on this is that if someone wants to kill another person, they will find a way to do so. Killing someone isn't difficult, getting away with it is. A gun doesn't magically allow someone to escape the consequences. The main exception from the ill educated point of view of someone who doesn't live in a country with gun crime, is that it's probably mostly gang members and criminals shooting eachother, so who really cares? Aside from the much advertised school shootings, every time I see a news story about it, it's gangs, drugs, etc. Just occasionally it's Darwin at work.

I care about nature, and that is incompatible with caring about humans I don't know. So someone who doesn't deserve it gets shot and killed, shame for them and anyone who cared about them, my sympathies. Oh well. In the time it took you to read this post, approximately 50 have replaced them.

Oh, and if the personal attacks and pointless flaming continues I'll just have to lock the topic. I realise by saying that someone who doesn't like the topic will deliberately continue fighting. I may ban that person based on a coin toss.

It's been that kind of day.

[Acid King]

it's a special kind of sad when humans are so scared of their fellow humans they think they need a gun.

I think the fear of gun owners and guns is equally pathetic. A lot of lazy stereotyping goes on on both sides, not unlike 99% of all political discussions on the interwebz, and it's tiresome. If you want more gun control then you're a gun grabbing liberal pussy waiting to be raped and if you're pro-gun ownership then you're a limp dick redneck cuddling up to a teddy bear. I don't care either way, own a gun or don't own a gun, you don't have to justify your preference to me. I don't mistrust one group more than the other. The only answers I appreciate to the question "Why do you need/want a pistol/rifle/machine gun?" are "Fuck you, that's why" and "It's none of your goddamn business." Just understand that if you harm someone in anything other than self defense, or you're a negligent fuck and you get someone killed because you're a half wit, then expect to pay the price. If you choose not to own a gun and find yourself in the unfortunate situation where one might come in handy, then you should understand that the police have no legal duty to protect you.

[Randorama]

I would actually conjecture that the more violence (broadly defined) decreases in the US, the more the random (and rarer and rarer) shooting in schools will cause irrational outcries. Acid King has more knowledge about this topic, so bother him if you want to know more details (I love you too, Acid King ). On guns...again, we had plenty of rifles at home for hunting. That's what they are good for. And, yes, I always ate what I killed, and you should too, wimps.

[Edmond Dantes]

You essentially can't have civilized behavior without the threat of violence. A lesson the internet proves time and time again.

Is this the general consensus amongst bronies? Because I feel like taking a trip to the incinerator. (After all the goodbye plushie sex, naturally).

Actually, the bronies coming out in favor kind of blind-sided me.

Most Bronies I've dealt with tended to have very wishy-washy attitudes--before Roo, I had met someone who was offended by my "One Bad Apple" video for similar reasons, except that guy went so far as to claim bullying "rarely happens" and is "nowhere near as severe as in that episode," along with saying that there's no such thing as corrupt (or even simply underfunded) authorities and reporting to them solves all problems. So the impression I had gotten was that the brony movement was made up of sheltered rich kids with wishy-washy Care Bears attitudes who had never experienced life.

And then they're the ones making intelligent arguments in support of guns (and apparently one of the guys in that link worked for the FBI, although I'm given to suspect he's making that up)

So what you're saying is, that guns solve everyone's problems?

That's not what I said.

Think about this: the tone of this discussion will inevitably change due to System11's post. Why do you think that is? Is it possibly because he can actually silence people who won't play by his rules? Would we respect him as much if he didn't have this power?

There is only one truth.

[Skykid]

There is only one truth.

No, there are multiple truths, one if which is the promotion of gun violence in media. You've been speaking a form of gibberish for some pages, and now you're referencing bronies.

I beg you to stop. All of it.

[BIL]

Would we respect him as much if he didn't have this power?

Actually yes, he's always been a good admin and he pays for a forum I enjoy a great deal. If he told me to dial it down I'd moderate my tone, even if he'd sworn a blood oath of never banning anybody. spadgy can't ban anyone and I still tried to show a bit of respect for this place by attempting to steer our recent NG dance battle into an appropriate topic, and cutting down on those annoying yet effective segmented quotes.

If the only thing keeping you in line is a terror of being virtually garotted, you're not the kind of guy I respect much! ;3

[Acid King]

Acid King has more knowledge about this topic, so bother him if you want to know more details (I love you too, Acid King ).

Randooooooo!!!

And, yes, I always ate what I killed, and you should too, wimps.

Agreed. Hunting saves me hundreds of dollars a year on food.

[Edmond Dantes]

Would we respect him as much if he didn't have this power?

Actually yes, he's always been a good admin and he pays for a forum I enjoy a great deal. If he told me to dial it down I'd moderate my tone, even if he'd sworn a blood oath of never banning anybody. spadgy can't ban anyone and I still tried to show a bit of respect for this place by attempting to steer our recent NG dance battle into an appropriate topic, and cutting down on those annoying yet effective segmented quotes.

If the only thing keeping you in line is a terror of being virtually garotted, you're not the kind of guy I respect much! ;3

Yeah, but BIL... you're exceedingly honorable (even if you are a bit stubborn). Most people aren't, and we've had some people already show that they're willing to resort to low means in a disagreement. I'm simply pointing out the truth for most of humanity.

There is only one truth.

No, there are multiple truths, one if which is the promotion of gun violence in media. You've been speaking a form of gibberish for some pages, and now you're referencing bronies.

I beg you to stop. All of it.

Honey, "wreck" and "gibberish" don't mean what you think they do.

And you never sufficiently proved the "promotion of gun violence" in the media. You acted as though the point were self-evident, and wondered why I gave mortificator props for providing evidence. Imagine if a lawyer walked into a courtroom and said "I don't have to prove the defendant is guilty, its obvious he is! Everyone thinks so!" The case would be dismissed.

The minute you start assuming you do not need to supply facts, you have lost. You ALWAYS need to supply facts. How can you not realize this?

[Skykid]

Someone give me a gun.

[BIL]

I'm simply pointing out the truth for most of humanity.

I don't disagree with you entirely there. Humanity often sucks. :[ edit: I do think we're a pretty decent forum on the whole, that's all.

[charlie chong]

well someone in this thread did say the reason they had a gun was fear.i can also say i have always been fascinated with guns and all media containing simulated violence since a child and can appreciate all the good reasons why someone would want to own one i just also think there are a number of reasons why you shoudn't own one.
i can also admit my arguments were perhaps a bit simple and one sided but that was more a reaction to edmonds unbreaking resolve that he was so right and me being trolly so my apologies for that.i'm not going to go into length discussing stuff like this on the internet because my opinion is not worth much in the grand scheme of things especially when discussing gun laws in a country i don't reside in.i also never assume my opinions are right for anyone else's life.
i do know i wouldn't trust any judicial system to judge the outcomes of such things fairly and that whatever i say humans are probably going to hurt each other from here on till eternity anyway.i just don't trust the people who supply the weapons more than anything else because you and i know all they care about is the money gained from selling them.
Oh yeah acid king got me right with the lazy can't you tell by my posting style

[Edmond Dantes]

Someone give me a gun.

Out of respect for your beliefs, I refuse to do so.

I'm simply pointing out the truth for most of humanity.

I don't disagree with you entirely there. Humanity often sucks. :[ edit: I do think we're a pretty decent forum on the whole, that's all.

Oh, this forum is a pretty decent lot. If this topic were representative of the Shmups experience, I would've vamoosed long ago!

So, how's the Ninja Ryukenden Task Force going these days?

[BIL]

Next planned maneuver is NGIII US version no-death clear, but to be honest I'm thinking of holding off on the recordings a bit until I can capture direct from my hardware. Hard to be very motivated with just footage of teh ROMZ. My ULTIME FANTASY is to buy some webspace and start bunging on 60fps hardware captures so it doesn't look like I'm cheating in NGII runs. ;-; (30fps = invisible clone shadow at all times)

[Edmond Dantes]

You can buy cheap ($40) DVD recorders. That's what I do.

That's actually part of the reason I stoppedp playing NG actually... I didn't feel like it justified using up another DVD-R. Although that's just me being stingy, because a 100-disc spindle is like $20 and I'm nowhere near using up what I've got.

My own recent accomplishments include beating Blue's Journey (three times... still haven't seen all six or so endings but I've seen two of the funniest ones)--I still haven't managed to do it without continuing tho--and Samurai Shodown 1 on MVS as Haohmaru (I used a lot of credits here too, but surprisingly I used more on Hattori Hanzo than on Amakusa Shiro, who was pathetically easy for a final boss in an SNK game).

... Oh, yeah, I guess we're going off topic now. So, umm...

You know what Amakusa could've used? A gun! "Die, you crazy funster!" *BAM!*

... Actually, that would be way too much like that one asshole from Bushido Blade...

[drauch]

I think we've almost reached a conclusion we can all agree on!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's the same as why nobody threw mud or insults at Zhuge Liang or Sun Tzu--not only did those two have well-known accomplishments to give their words weight, but they lived in a time where you could kill people for pissing you off. This oddly resulted in greater intelligence and a higher level of civilization. [citation needed]

The minute you start assuming you do not need to supply facts, you have lost. You ALWAYS need to supply facts. How can you not realize this?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

You've uh, got an internal consistency problem too, I see.

On the internet, of course, there's no means of physical confrontation, so people like Skykid (who has actually been banned for his behavior once) can be assholes without fear.

Are you suggesting that nobody would be willing to call you an idiot in person? Or are you suggesting that you think physical violence would be an appropriate response to someone you think is an 'asshole'? This sounds disturbingly like you're fantasizing (again) about assaulting someone just because you don't like what they say.

You essentially can't have civilized behavior without the threat of violence.

And we've reached a new moral low for you, this being essentially the same as the religious argument that morality couldn't exist without God (i.e. without the threat of divine retribution for sinning).

You see, non-sociopaths can operate in a society and disagree with each other vehemently, be it online, through literature or in person, without needing to resort to physical confrontation to settle their arguments. That's the whole point of freedom of speech, to prevent ideas from being stifled by petty, barbaric threats, like say the Spanish Inquisition for instance. Normal people see violence at best as an unfortunate last resort for a crisis, not as a convenient means to an end or a handy way to "kill people for pissing you off", the idea of which you appear to deeply approve of. What the fuck is wrong with you?

You are fucking bananas. Like, seriously batshit crazy, full-blown sociopath bonkers. That's it, for the sake of my sanity, I'm out. If I post any more here I run the risk of having a stroke or something. This thread has completely crossed my tolerance threshold for stupidity.