10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Tyranix95]

.... You just looked like a Cave fanboy from your posts, ....

... I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time. ....

Heh, I thougth so. Anyone with the name "Muchi Muchi Spork" has to be crazy for CAVE.

My ballot had three CAVE games: KETSUI, DDP, and PROGEAR. I kinda wonder what you ballot would have looked like this year--if you had voted. /

--------

Edit: Woops, brain fart: Skipped PGAU for a second.

[chum]

I'm also sick to death of loli teddy shit

You're only saying this because It's trendy to do so.

I see right through you, mr

[chempop]

Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:

I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time..

You will live to regret those words!!!!! plus I'm pretty sure the biggest fanboy would be 100% supportive of their recent loli character art.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm fine with loli's along as they are well drawn loli's that don't look indistinguishable from every other loli ever conceived.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

.... You just looked like a Cave fanboy from your posts, ....

... I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time. ....

Heh, I thougth so. Anyone with the name "Muchi Muchi Spork" has to be crazy for CAVE.

My ballot had two CAVE games: KETSUI and DDP. I kinda wonder what you ballot would have looked like this year--if you had voted. /

My work in progress actually has 2 Raizings and several from the 80s that I have on there for their influence and how good they were compared to everything else when they were released but most of what I spend time playing currently is Cave games and most other games feel like a waste of time because they are so much less fun.

I'm also sick to death of loli teddy shit

You're only saying this because It's trendy to do so.

I see right through you, mr

Cold busted.

Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:

I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time..

You will live to regret those words!!!!! plus I'm pretty sure the biggest fanboy would be 100% supportive of their recent loli character art.

Maybe so (on both counts).

[Hagane]

Cave is pretty hit and miss to me. I really like Ketsui, Progear and Dangun. Futari and Galuda 2 are entertaining too, but I can't stand most of their output and their scoring systems. If I were to pick a developer that suited my tastes the best, that would be Psikyo without a doubt (even though my favorite STG is Batrider).

[Squire Grooktook]

My favorite shmup developer is Konami. Second would probably be a tie between Taito and Cave.

[Tyranix95]

It always amazes me just how far CAVE stands out on the Breakdown by Developer List. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=30 ). I mean, all the other Developers have about 1-5 boards on the list. And, then there is CAVE with a whopping 19 boards. Back in '02, when the list(s) first started: The T25/HM list(s) had Four CAVE games on 'em ( out of, what, nine CAVE games at the time). So, like 45% of all CAVE games made it to the T25/HM list back then. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=12784#p12784 ). But, today, CAVE has 30 games out. ( http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Cave ). And 19 games on these are on the list(s). That means that 63% of all CAVE games are now on the T25/HM list. So, the percentage of CAVE games on the list(s) has now increased, what, 18%!? Heh, with 30 CAVE titles out, a trend like that, I can't help but wonder if sometime soon the T25 list will be occupied by almost all CAVE games. I mean think about it: There are only 11 CAVE games not on the T25/HM list.

[trap15]

It's not Triangle Service, but it's not fun either

The guy in my avatar would like a word with you

[KAI]

I really like Ketsui

Never thought I'd live to hear you say that.

[Herr Schatten]

I wrote a little bit about my thoughts on Gaiden a while ago in this thread.

Reading it back now, some of my individual complaints come across as a bit whiny. I think BulletMagnet said it better in two lines than I did in four paragraphs. Basically to sum up, Gaiden to me is more about style over substance and feels very much "consolised" (or rather, bastardised :p) when compared to its arcade counterparts.

Gradius III on the other hand is a masterpiece IMO and one of the few games I'd genuinely describe as epic. Some don't like its length, I think it's perfect. It takes everything that was great about past entries, expands upon them, cranks up the intensity and adds a ton of variety of its own. It's fair, but unforgiving of mistakes. It throws everything at you and is all the more satisfying for it. I actually find it reminds me of Battle Garegga in the sense that the more I play it, watch it and just generally learn more about it, the easier it becomes to appreciate just how great a game it is. It might not have a fancy scoring system, but that's not to say it doesn't have depth. I also think a lot of people are put off by its reputation for being excessively difficult, which I largely believe to be an exagerrated myth. Apart from the stage three boss timeout pattern, there's no reason why anybody should not be able to make it through at least a large portion of the game (if not clear it) on sheer practice alone.

Anyway, my original point was just that although Gaiden is more popular on this forum for sure, it simply comes down to personal taste. Gradius is one series which is all about subjectivity since there isn't a single bad game amongst them as far as I'm concerned.

Fair enough. Thanks for answering in detail.

I experienced Gradius III (and Gradius IV) always as quite derivative. After the huge improvements Gradius II made over the original, I felt underwhelmed by the following entries in the series, thinking they just offered more of the same, and were largely technology-driven instead of trying to improve much on the actual game. It's safe to assume that the reason for Gradius III's popularity is that it had a port on a very popular console.

Gradius Gaiden, on the other hand, delivered pretty much all I'd have expected from a game following Gradius II. I can see your point, though, it really does feel a lot less arcade-y.

[Squire Grooktook]

In games in general, I've never really gotten this idea that "all sequels must be innovative just for the sake of innovation". What is wrong with taking a great game, and giving the players another 8 levels or so to have fun in?

Don't get me wrong, if a game can be improved upon, it absolutely should be. And it's great to see franchises taken in new directions that work well. But I feel that all games are made for a purpose, and if it's the desire of the creators to expand upon the previous game by essentially remaking it with new stages, then that's 100% valid and should not be frowned upon at all.

I just never really could sympathize with those old game reviewers who were all like "This Mega Man game is super fun, the controls are tight, the levels are diverse and intense, the challenge is up there, and I had a blast the whole way through....buuuuuut it doesn't have any serious deviations from the previous game. 5/10 mediocre at best."

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

^ This I can relate to greatly. Especially annoys me when people say that it's the exact same game as last time but worse, meaning you could have played it at any other time and enjoyed it but the fact that it came out so late and after so many great previous entires means that it's now suddenly garbage.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yes exactly. And also that logic implies that if the chronology had been switched, and this new entry had came out first, then it would be the better game.

The disturbing implication is that the actual content of the game doesn't matter.

[ncp]

Dodonpachi must retake the mantle of number 1. The gods demand it.

5/10 mediocre at best

as if any big reviewers ever go below like 8 any more
9/10 it's okay

[system11]

It always amazes me just how far CAVE stands out on the Breakdown by Developer List. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=30 ). I mean, all the other Developers have about 1-5 boards on the list. And, then there is CAVE with a whopping 19 boards. Back in '02, when the list(s) first started: The T25/HM list(s) had Four CAVE games on 'em ( out of, what, nine CAVE games at the time). So, like 45% of all CAVE games made it to the T25/HM list back then. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=12784#p12784 ). But, today, CAVE has 30 games out. ( http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Cave ). And 19 games on these are on the list(s). That means that 63% of all CAVE games are now on the T25/HM list. So, the percentage of CAVE games on the list(s) has now increased, what, 18%!? Heh, with 30 CAVE titles out, a trend like that, I can't help but wonder if sometime soon the T25 list will be occupied by almost all CAVE games. I mean think about it: There are only 11 CAVE games not on the T25/HM list.

Cave made a good percentage of the newer good games, and I think a lot of recent players simply don't have the depth of experience or knowledge of what's out there. How many people who voted for Deathsmiles have never played Side Arms for example?

[Squire Grooktook]

9/10 it's okay

You forget, we're talking about 2d games here. The lack of a 3rd dimension is like automatic 4 points off.

[Tyranix95]

It always amazes me just how far CAVE stands out on the Breakdown by Developer List. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=30 ). I mean, all the other Developers have about 1-5 boards on the list. And, then there is CAVE with a whopping 19 boards. Back in '02, when the list(s) first started: The T25/HM list(s) had Four CAVE games on 'em ( out of, what, nine CAVE games at the time). So, like 45% of all CAVE games made it to the T25/HM list back then. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=12784#p12784 ). But, today, CAVE has 30 games out. ( http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Cave ). And 19 games on these are on the list(s). That means that 63% of all CAVE games are now on the T25/HM list. So, the percentage of CAVE games on the list(s) has now increased, what, 18%!? Heh, with 30 CAVE titles out, a trend like that, I can't help but wonder if sometime soon the T25 list will be occupied by almost all CAVE games. I mean think about it: There are only 11 CAVE games not on the T25/HM list.

Cave made a good percentage of the newer good games, and I think a lot of recent players simply don't have the depth of experience or knowledge of what's out there. How many people who voted for Deathsmiles have never played Side Arms for example?

Good point.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

It always amazes me just how far CAVE stands out on the Breakdown by Developer List. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=30 ). I mean, all the other Developers have about 1-5 boards on the list. And, then there is CAVE with a whopping 19 boards. Back in '02, when the list(s) first started: The T25/HM list(s) had Four CAVE games on 'em ( out of, what, nine CAVE games at the time). So, like 45% of all CAVE games made it to the T25/HM list back then. ( http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=12784#p12784 ). But, today, CAVE has 30 games out. ( http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Cave ). And 19 games on these are on the list(s). That means that 63% of all CAVE games are now on the T25/HM list. So, the percentage of CAVE games on the list(s) has now increased, what, 18%!? Heh, with 30 CAVE titles out, a trend like that, I can't help but wonder if sometime soon the T25 list will be occupied by almost all CAVE games. I mean think about it: There are only 11 CAVE games not on the T25/HM list.

Cave made a good percentage of the newer good games, and I think a lot of recent players simply don't have the depth of experience or knowledge of what's out there. How many people who voted for Deathsmiles have never played Side Arms for example?

Good point.

You're definitely right. However, I doubt many places online have users with better knowledge of what's out there for shmups.

[R-Gray 1]

i was not here long time and I lost the chance to vote and im not a cave fan
ohh Einhänder ( beautiful ps1 icon shmup), Gradius V, Axelay, Rayforce, Under defeat,
At least the awesome Gradius gaiden is there...but 25th? omg
Nice to see Mars Matrix in a good position.

[heisenbergman]

Thanks for this. Even as a non-member, this seemed like a very helpful list of shmups to try out.

Is the methodology for rating/ranking games always the same year in and year out?

I'm just asking because I felt like maybe rating as many games as possible on a 10-point scale and seeing what rises to the top might prove to be more conclusive, even for such a subjective thing as rating games.

No offense to this thread, of course.

[chum]

I'm just asking because I felt like maybe rating as many games as possible on a 10-point scale and seeing what rises to the top might prove to be more conclusive, even for such a subjective thing as rating games.

The nice thing about only being allowed to pick 25 games is that everyone is on equal ground. It would be pretty time consuming to vote for hundreds of shmups (for those that have played that many) and let's not forget that most of the games we've played we probably didn't put enough time into to really "rate".

These top lists are just a popularity contest, but that's also why they work so well, anyone can participate and simply name their 25 favorite games.

[n0rtygames]

These top lists are just a popularity contest, but that's also why they work so well, anyone can participate and simply name their 25 favorite games.

Which also means its measured by forum activity and people who have gotten bored of posting don't vote

Battle Garegga? Greatest shmup of all time?!

It should quite clearly be "Pants Storm"

http://sk8tokyo.com/shmup/games/pants.htm

[professor ganson]

This list has the same feel as my own top 25 lists: the inclusion of the bottom three or so seems rather arbitrary. Otherwise, I think it's a really nice guide to the newbie. I wish I'd known about the voting, but I was likely distracted by work at the time.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I feel like it's fair to say that if a game is good enough, people will talk about it (especially on a site as devoted to the genre as this) and it will gain popularity that way.

[hermit crab]

Seems like I need to give some game called "Battle Garegga" a go. Seen the name mentioned here once or twice but that was genuinely a surprising winner.

And Futari at #2, wtf? Seems like I need to give it another go... It's not bad but...

Ketsui yeah!

[Mister Midnight]

truly nonsese....a list withouht Lords of Thunder....

[nosorrow]

Classic shooters from the 90s - and late 80s - are strangely, disappointingly absent from the list. We definitely have to do something to remedy that in the upcoming poll.

[Mero]

This isn't the most recent one

EDIT: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49262

[nosorrow]

Thanks, but my point still stands.