How would you feel about PC releases of Cave games?

[AntiFritz]

Seriously though, when can we talk about shmups again.

[Zengeku3]

But we are talking about shmups.

Though, why don't you just go to another thread then?

[cools]

Only highly active threads about CAVE games are worth posting in.

[Zengeku3]

Then make a highly active thread about Cave games that isn't about Cave games on PC.

Which are the only Cave games worth playing. HAR HAR!

[Barrakketh]

Only threads about HELLSINKER are worth posting in.

FTFY

[Obiwanshinobi]

Am I hallucinating? Why the dickdom?

[Kollision]

Only highly active threads about CAVE games are worth posting in.

As of late no thread has been worth posting in, honestly.

[Cagar]

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[Nasirosuchus]

People will spend money for your product as long as it provides good quality and service. If it doesn't, then they won't.

Well, yes and no. Unfortunately history has been witness to many failing despite having great products. So much goes into beyond the actual product, including financial management, marketing, etc.

I would hope to think that Cave is as sharp and savvy as they seem to be. Certainly, their rate of recent activity is a good sign.

Good as in 'appealing to the market.'

[cuttingagent]

Only threads about HELLSINKER are worth posting in.

FTFY

[Iron Peach]

Cave in-browser ... GO!!

[Cagar]

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[Rezwalker]

Yo guys LET VALVE WORK ONLY ON HALF LIFE 3 NOTHING ELSE !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drum]

What kind of a sad, pathetic person do you have to be to actually vote for one of these options?

Darwin awards waiting to happen.

I have to believe they are just trolling for laughs, for my own mental wellbeing.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Just to get some debate going and to fulfill my own curiosity. Maybe someone which more insight with programming or the industry could tell us if its feasible for CAVE to port one of their games (be it their older back catalog or the titles on the 360) and still make a tiny profit. Can anyone give any insight into how much work they would need to put in to optimise it to run on different hardware?

Isn't Deathsmiles 2 arcade pcb PC based like Taito's TypeX2? Could they easily port that to PC? I for one would buy DS2 PC since it isnt released for the PAL360.

Besides one aspect that does bother me with digital download on consoles is the longevity of XBox Live and the hardware. I'ld feel much safer having my games on Steam

[Randorama]

I have to believe they are just trolling for laughs, for my own mental wellbeing.

Elitism by consumerism has been shown to be a stable form of deviance on this forum. Some really believe to be "special" by having PCBs. And a sister who is also their mother.

[neorichieb1971]

I don't mind if Cave games get released in any format.

But I don't want to play them on PC.

I'd rather Cave release a cave cartridge system and sell the games on it with a poster. If that option existed in this thread I would vote for that one.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I have to believe they are just trolling for laughs, for my own mental wellbeing.

Elitism by consumerism has been shown to be a stable form of deviance on this forum. Some really believe to be "special" by having PCBs. And a sister who is also their mother.

I think there's several reasons for ppls negativity, I think much of the negativity come from the fact that many ppl are purists who see a PC version as been lesser to console.

(Looking at your date you joined the forum i'm guessing you'll know this already) Then you have folk who have seen this topic (ps3 and PC) more than a few times, where in the past the general replay has been. If you are a fan of the genre and would actually spend good money on all the games then you would go out and buy a 360. Those who dont probably wouldn't fully support the genre anyway, or atleast not to make it worthwhile for CAVE to spend the effort into porting for another platform

Not that I would make the assumption of any non 360 STG fan, that would make me a hypocrite since I only bought a PAL 360 last year (there were plenty of STGs on PC to keep me happy anyway). And besides theres folk like The Observer who has spent alot of cash importing doujins and cant buy a 360 due to living in a country outside NA, PAL and JPN where the 360 isnt properly supported and costs too much.

I would also say that due to the 360 been dead in Japan and CAVE looking to change platforms the situation is different to how it was in the past.

[trap15]

Just to get some debate going and to fulfill my own curiosity. Maybe someone which more insight with programming or the industry could tell us if its feasible for CAVE to port one of their games (be it their older back catalog or the titles on the 360) and still make a tiny profit. Can anyone give any insight into how much work they would need to put in to optimise it to run on different hardware?

The titles on SH-3 hardware (particularly ones written by IKD) all use the same basic hardware abstraction in code. For the 360 and iOS ports, they rewrote the abstraction for the particular platform. Now, this abstraction isn't exactly small. It contains all the interface with the hardware; from the graphics to the input to the sound. So they would have to write a whole new audio subsystem, a whole new graphics subsystem and a whole new input subsystem. The abstractions are not simple layers over the hardware either; they're pretty intensely bound to whatever hardware they are running on. It would take quite a while to re-port this architecture again (they already did it thrice; once for the original, again for 360, and another for iOS). It's a lot of work.

If you want a port of a non-IKD SH-3 game, you're even less likely to get a port, since they don't use the same abstraction that IKD's do and would require yet another entire abstraction rewrite. If you want a port of anything older than SH-3, you're basically screwed, because they were written with a lot of hand-written assembly code, which is completely non-portable to PC. They'd basically have to rewrite the whole game.

Isn't Deathsmiles 2 arcade pcb PC based like Taito's TypeX2? Could they easily port that to PC? I for one would buy DS2 PC since it isnt released for the PAL360.

Yes it is, and it would probably take little to no effort on their part, other than testing and making sure that it works on other hardware (it's pretty likely that it will work with little to no modification).

[Matskat]

Hahaha!

Glad I stopped in....I'm CONSTANTLY amazed at how fucking uptight people can be.

...Page 1 and already there are "fuck off"s and "ban!" comments...

How lame. Don't be dicks. It's a thread on a forum. Forgive the dude for ASKING for your input. He should have known better, all he needed to do was make a single Poll about Cave - its ALWAYS sure to bring out the fucking uptight weirdos...

Being a dick on the internet is the most passively aggressive act one can do these days, IMHO.

Jeez...

This is not directed at any one in particular - just an observation. Please do not become offended at my opinion, or do...I DGF.

On topic:

The way I see it is diversifying your market across multiple platforms is a good idea. If the cost is prohibitively high to enter into the PC market, then so be it....but PC development costs are what you make them, IMHO. Cave already invests in graphic design, packaging, etc...adding "Steam" to the already planned marketing material costs nil...it's the development of the port, and the cost of the resources required to make said port that would be a stumbling block. BUT if Cave were to invest in a good in-house porting system, they could make that one time investment then basically automate future ports. If that makes sense. Development costs could be focused on generating IP at say the arcade level, then banking on console, iOS, and PC ports to continue to generate revenue even after the arcade hype has died off. How much money can a company make now days on solely arcade PCB sales. There are only so many arcade is Japan.

Ports are obviously worth it to Cave or else they would not do them.... Cave is, after all, first and foremost a COMPANY who's sole existence is to generate revenue. Sell more stuff = more revenue.

Didn't mean to go all out there...opinions, opinions, opinions.

[Hagane]

I would love to see CAVE's games on the PC, as I won't buy a current gen console.

[emphatic]

What trap15 said.

[Matskat]

Well trap15 busted up my idea. Oh noes!

Fuck the truth - presented by Cave.

[Randorama]

I think there's several reasons for ppls negativity, I think much of the negativity come from the fact that many ppl are purists who see a PC version as been lesser to console.

I think that the negativity comes from collectors who don't play games with any consistency worth bothering about, and just want to be "special". I have the utmost compempt for this attitude.

On quality of ports...Pure or not pure, if Cave could get money in any form, I'd settle for a shitty PC port, even. And, if a PC port may be the only tool for someone to play the game, then I certainly welcome it. It may be the case that said PC port is inferior to other formats, but then again those who can spend more, can buy better ports.

I have some of their titles on Xbox, I just think that if it would have been nice if they could have received a larger distribution, via PC.

Then again, once we take in consideration Trap15's analysis, we can easily accept that Cave shouldn't port its titles to PC, as it is an impractical thing.

[nZero]

If you want a port of anything older than SH-3, you're basically screwed, because they were written with a lot of hand-written assembly code, which is completely non-portable to PC. They'd basically have to rewrite the whole game.

Rewriting a whole Cave game for a new platform effectively is more of an Arika or a 5pb Div.2 thing anyway Judging from Guwange XBLA they'd rely heavily on emulation for their older titles. Which anybody with a PC can already do right now.

[trap15]

Ah yeah, I completely forgot about emulation, haha... Yeah, for anything on old Cave 68k, they'd probably just emulate it. For PGM though... that'd probably end up being rewritten if they did a port. Or, since there are already ports of all the PGM games, they'd probably re-port those ports (most likely not a simple task either).

[Nasirosuchus]

If you are a fan of the genre and would actually spend good money on all the games then you would go out and buy a 360. Those who dont probably wouldn't fully support the genre anyway, or atleast not to make it worthwhile for CAVE to spend the effort into porting for another platform

The fact that someone doesn't want to import a system doesn't mean that they aren't a fan of the genre. I've been a shmup fan forever, but I simply don't see a Japanese 360 as a worthwhile investment. The games are already 80-90 dollars when released, so spending several hundred dollars on top of that just isn't worth it to me, especially when there's a vast array of other shmups that I can play without doing so.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Thx for the insight Trap15, so realistially the only games that CAVE might release on PC would be DS2 as a port and the older gen1 games as emulation. Anything else would take too much effort in their part, atleast to do properlly, and I cant see CAVE releasing shoddy ports of their games. 5pB were the ones who did that on the 360, both of which CAVE or 5pB spent time patching later.

With regards to creating to tools to port to a new platform, (IIRC from one of rancor's interview translations) CAVE had to enlist outside help from M2 for the 360, dunno how they went about for the iphone. But whatever platform they choose to move to in the future they will probably have to commit to in the long run, just like how they are with the 360. With no one off release on the PS3 (saying that Grev put in the time to port their games to PS3 Hope it pays off for them)

For PGM though... that'd probably end up being rewritten if they did a port. Or, since there are already ports of all the PGM games, they'd probably re-port those ports (most likely not a simple task either).

So its probably safe to assume we will all be playing the PGMs on MAME for some ttime to come

If you are a fan of the genre and would actually spend good money on all the games then you would go out and buy a 360. Those who dont probably wouldn't fully support the genre anyway, or atleast not to make it worthwhile for CAVE to spend the effort into porting for another platform

The fact that someone doesn't want to import a system doesn't mean that they aren't a fan of the genre. I've been a shmup fan forever, but I simply don't see a Japanese 360 as a worthwhile investment. The games are already 80-90 dollars when released, so spending several hundred dollars on top of that just isn't worth it to me, especially when there's a vast array of other shmups that I can play without doing so.

I had domestic NA / PAL 360s in mind since most of CAVE's games are localised or budget region free. (Ketsui and DOJ / BL have solid MAME versions anyway) So the price of the most games isnt an issue, just the cost of the 360 plus extra pad / stick. Hell considering just how dirt cheap the localised versions are, CAVE could probably make more from a Steam version. But yeah calling ppl lesser fans for not owning a J360 / 360 is bunkum, as theres more to STGs than CAVE. But access to the localised stuff is quite inexpensive and will be more so as 360s get ever cheaper in the future.

[Nasirosuchus]

I had domestic NA / PAL 360s in mind since most of CAVE's games are localised or budget region free. (Ketsui and DOJ / BL have solid MAME versions anyway) So the price of the most games isnt an issue, just the cost of the 360 plus extra pad / stick. Hell considering just how dirt cheap the localised versions are, CAVE could probably make more from a Steam version. But yeah calling ppl lesser fans for not owning a J360 / 360 is bunkum, as theres more to STGs than CAVE. But access to the localised stuff is quite inexpensive and will be more so as 360s get ever cheaper in the future.

It's not an issue, to YOU. To many people, it is. Many games aren't localized, and most people simply don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a extra system + the cost of the games, and I can't say that I blame them.

[brentsg]

I'm a little confused about why people are so annoyed by one PM... I do hope it doesn't start a trend though.

I must be the only one that got the same PM twice then.