Why this forum hates touhou so much?

[ZenErik]

Two cents

Toohoo's art is fine. It's pretty similar to mango art of the 90s, which I'd gladly take over the kawaii uguu bullshit that plagues everything these days. Deathsmiles. eXceed. Otomedius. Alternative Sphere. Trouble Witches. Fuck. That. Shit.
Toohoo's music is also fine. Obviously Till When, EoSD and nearly half of his 500-ish songs sound like piss, but some are simply magnificent and no amount of fan arrange will ever top them in quality. I've grown out of rock and metal, saaadly.
No comment on gameplay. Scoring doesn't feel rewarding compared to, say, Ketsui, and stage design is ass, but the difficulty and boss fights are pretty nicely done. Overall it's neither groundbreaking nor horrible, just different from a lot of STGs.
So yes, I like it. As an STG.

UFO is shit though, convoluted trash.

It's not convoluted if I can blind 1cc it with zero memorization.

Kawaii uguu forever! I love cute em ups, and I love cutesy art. But obviously I would not like it if EVERY game were that way. Sometimes I'm in the more for some AirRade. Sometimes Guwange.

As for comparing Touhou art to manga art of the 90s... I would not say so. It seemingly attempts to be on the cuter side. Or at least the lolicon side.The big issue (and source of amusement) is that the character art is extremely deformed. ZUN has obviously never taking a drawing class in his life. Still gets the job done!

[shmuppyLove]

3. THE GAME
4. THE GAME
5. THE GAME

I just lost ...

[RGC]

They're pretty good fun, but I found the ones I tried a bit samey. And I like Cave, so it must be an art direction thing. The music was quite cute and interesting, imo. Certainly no hatred felt towards them, but then videogames don't warrant such strong emotions. Plenty of other games to choose from!

[RNGmaster]

Here, let me go back on my earlier comment, and state why I don't like Touhou music. I remembered that SA's music is actually pretty good, so I oughtn't say that all Touhou music is bad and if you like it you have no taste, should I?

My comment about the earlier music being poor quality still stands. ZUN might be a good composer but in some of the earlier pieces the sounds quality is so poor that it's hard to tell. They might fit with the game but I wouldn't put them on my iPod.

Second of all, Touhou music lacks a coherent theme. In many of my favorite game OSTs, like Hellsinker and VVVVVV, the composer either stuck to one genre or used certain themes throughout. VVVVVV's music is solid chiptune, which fits perfectly with the game's aesthetic. Hellsinker has one particular riff that shows up in almost every piece (you can hear it very clearly in Segment 1 LEAD and Segment 5 COMBINED). Both of those soundtracks add to the game world and help draw the player in.

Now Touhou music doesn't feel like that. Kind of like the concept of Gensokyo itself, where it's just a bunch of cool things stuck together, it just doesn't feel cohesive. Some pieces are good on their own, but when you view it as a whole it just, I don't know, doesn't create an overarching atmosphere.

Feel free to disagree but that's why I don't like it.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

People who think all Touhou games have extremely repetitive graphics and weak music have clearly never played the PC-98 series.
People who think Crimzon Clover is the doujin shooter to end all doujiin shooters have clearly never played Kamui.

That's all I feel like seriously adding to this discussion.

[ZenErik]

People who think all Touhou games have extremely repetitive graphics and weak music have clearly never played the PC-98 series.
People who think Crimzon Clover is the doujin shooter to end all doujiin shooters have clearly never played Kamui.

That's all I feel like seriously adding to this discussion.

Everything Siter Skain is AWESOME in its' own way.

[Formless God]

Didn't know you even had an account here.

I probably had my eyes on the scoreboard back then. Maybe I'll claim a spot in DOJ one day.
I don't remember giving myself a signature that retarded, though ...

Though what do you mean, blind 1cc? I seem to recall you having quite some practice with the game before clearing. Unless you are referring to a clear of a lower difficulty.

I did run S5 and S6 like a machine, but it was for consistency issues instead of preparations for a 1cc.
It's Lunatic.

People who think all Touhou games have extremely repetitive graphics and weak music have clearly never played the PC-98 series.

And your brilliant suggestion would be more games with extremely repetitive graphics and weak music ?

[Zengeku3]

Didn't know you even had an account here.

I don't remember giving myself a signature that retarded, though ...

Don't be a fool, it's fucking awesome.

I did run S5 and S6 like a machine, but it was for consistency issues instead of preparations for a 1cc.
It's Lunatic.

No runs of S1-4 at all?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

-

[SuperSoaker360]

It must be pretty cool for ZUN to have complete control over the fanbase. Any character he draws for the game and any music he composes for it will be fed to the fanbase and they'll begin regurgitating out some amazing artwork and arranges.

[Blackbird]

It must be pretty cool for ZUN to have complete control over the fanbase. Any character he draws for the game and any music he composes for it will be fed to the fanbase and they'll begin regurgitating out some amazing artwork and arranges.

Wait, this explains everything! Touhou is PONIES!

UWAAAA *ship explodes*

[I would have attached an image, but FBI took down the internet in my country and we can't do that anymore]

[hzt]

I have no intention of reading all these long posts but I've always thought this forum's Touhou hate is like those super Christian guys who go on about how they hate faggots and all gay people are going to hell and etc. and etc. and then they get caught on their knees in a public toilet sucking off some old queen named Raymond, except with paedophilia instead of homosexuality. I mean except with Toohoo games instead of homosexuality.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

On the subject of that, I really do hate the beliefs of those Christians because they ignore

That they're supposed to hate the sin, not the sinner
What happened to all the love they're supposed to show?
What about the part where only their God has a right to judge people?
Didn't they remember that everyone's a sinner and everyone has flaws?
Don't they realize that their Bible mentions that all sins are considered equal, so even if being gay was a sin(it's not, the Bible condemns the act), they'd still be equally likely to be chosen.


Of course, it's not like they even probably read their Bibles.

Obviously that only applies to those that actually believe that stuff.



But yeah, I also agree that most of the Touhou hate is probably more toward the fanbase than the games. If you don't like the games, then that's fine, and I'm not going to try to change your mind about it.

[MathU]

Touhou > MileStone

You very funny guy. I shall kill you last.

[Never_Scurred]

I have no intention of reading all these long posts but I've always thought this forum's Touhou hate is like those super Christian guys who go on about how they hate faggots and all gay people are going to hell and etc. and etc. and then they get caught on their knees in a public toilet sucking off some old queen named Raymond, except with paedophilia instead of homosexuality. I mean except with Toohoo games instead of homosexuality.

LMAO

[finisherr]

I think STG fans that don't like Touhou fundamentally dislike it because it gives shooters a bad name. We don't want the entire gaming community to misinterpret STGs to be about cute flying little fairy things and pretty patterns. It's kind of similar to the general disdain that punks express toward emos. Both are seemingly misunderstood and have musical roots years and years down the line in music history. Both have some similarities in appearance (likely due to said shared roots somewhere between the late 80s and early 90s), but one definitely does not want to be mistaken for the other.

[shmuppyLove]

So I finally played some Touhouses (Tohii?) and, they're ok I guess. All kind of same-ish, so I guess you'd have to be interested in the story and characters to keep playing through them.

Dodging patterns is fun, it's definitely a different style than Cave though. The patterns are a lot slower in most cases, so you really have to weave your way through them. And multiple bullet colours and sizes is challenging. Imperishable Night is interesting, with the split-screen battles.

PC98 FTW though. Now that I have an emulator maybe I should try some other PC98 shmups too.

[AntiFritz]

So I finally played some Touhouses (Tohii?) and, they're ok I guess. All kind of same-ish, so I guess you'd have to be interested in the story and characters to keep playing through them.

Dodging patterns is fun, it's definitely a different style than Cave though. The patterns are a lot slower in most cases, so you really have to weave your way through them. And multiple bullet colours and sizes is challenging. Imperishable Night is interesting, with the split-screen battles.

PC98 FTW though. Now that I have an emulator maybe I should try some other PC98 shmups too.

What. Sure you dont mean Phantasmagoria of a Flower View?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Ive only played IN and a little bit of MoF but I quite enjoyed ZUN's take on the genre. Do I think they are as good as a CAVE shmup? nope, but that doesnt mean that Tohou is bad for not copying CAVE verbatim. I like variety in my games and ZUN does a reasonable job for a lone developer who churns a new game out every year to keep his fans happy.

That said he really needs to either put in a proper background or put some variety in his enemy types as it really does detract from the stage sections and makes memorising them a pain.

Its a shame the retar... erm fans are holding back the series. I would quite like to see ZUN work on a non touhou shmup just to see if he has any good ideas.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

They may not be any prettier, but the PC-98 series is a bit better about the problems you (and many others) are having. HRtP is probably the most brilliant game of Arkanoid I've played, and this is coming from a huge Taito nut. (It counts as a single screen shmup too, right?)
There's also stuff by Amusment Makers, which doesn't have much to do with Touhou but ZUN was a part of it for a while.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Yeah Ive seen a few vids of the PC98 stuff which certanly has better enemies. The only reason I havnt bothered checking them out is that ive heard PC98 emulators are a pain in the arse to use for non Japanese readers

[Barrakketh]

Yeah Ive seen a few vids of the PC98 stuff which certanly has better enemies. The only reason I havnt bothered checking them out is that ive heard PC98 emulators are a pain in the arse to use for non Japanese readers

Nah, Anex86 is pretty simple to configure (and in English!). You'll want to grab the Japanese font so game text isn't fucked up, though.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

ah cool, DLing now

[Hagane]

Psikyo has no scoring systems to speak of (DB being most exceptional in this regard)

Haha.

I don't really see what makes Touhou so bad compared to, say, Cave. To me, Touhou games are mostly very solid, with some outstanding ones here and there, like IN.

Touhou music is pretty good by shmup standards. ZUN may not be a great interpreter (he's still good enough, there are some really catchy themes in the games), but he's a good composer.

If ZUN hired a good artist (like this guy - not moe enough for his fanbase probably though) and better interpreters (like these guys), the whole package would be a lot better.

BTW what I don't really get is all the Crimzon Clover love. Didn't seem very remarkable to me save for the better than average visuals for a doujin game.

[moh]

For me, Cave games are comparable to touhou in gameplay, but not really in quality. which doesnt surprise me since touhou games are more indie.

Cave games are just more pollished, so why should i settle for less?

I dunno, maybe im missing something, because there are obviously a lot of people who love touhou.

[dunpeal2064]

For me, Cave games are comparable to touhou in gameplay, but not really in quality. which doesnt surprise me since touhou games are more indie.

Cave games are just more pollished, so why should i settle for less?

I dunno, maybe im missing something, because there are obviously a lot of people who love touhou.

Even if you think Cave is the best, there will be a point when you want a break from them. Touhou is nice in that its not Cave or Psikyo or Seibu, but a completely differrent kind of bullet hell scoring shooter. I took the time to play TH7 and TH8 (still learning the names, just trying them at random), and while they are not perfect, those patterns sure are fun to weave around.

[Moniker]

As for comparing Touhou art to manga art of the 90s... I would not say so. It seemingly attempts to be on the cuter side. Or at least the lolicon side.The big issue (and source of amusement) is that the character art is extremely deformed. ZUN has obviously never taking a drawing class in his life. Still gets the job done!

I never got the impression that Touhou's shrine maidens were lolis. I always assumed they were young women, and non-eroticized ones at that. Obviously I can't account for fanfic & the like, but just from playing the games, I still don't get the feeling that these are sexual beings, even after reading countless arguments to the contrary on forums. They're certainly nowhere near the style of Deathsmiles, for example, which I'm often embarrassed to play in front of other people.

[ebarrett]

I never got the impression that Touhou's shrine maidens were lolis.

That is correct, Touhou's shrine maidens are actually zombies.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I never got the impression that Touhou's shrine maidens were lolis.

That is correct, Touhou's shrine maidens are actually zombies.

With that one statement youve just made Touhou seem 100 times more cool to me. I dont know if I should thank you or hire a hit man

[Zengeku3]

I never got the impression that Touhou's shrine maidens were lolis.

That is correct, Touhou's shrine maidens are actually zombies.

Which means that the fanbase consists mainly of necrophiles.