PSiKYO Appreciation from a Cave Fan

[Obiwanshinobi]

Sonic Wings Special has a helicopter character, and the heli is the Hokum, which later appears in Zero Gunner 2. Whats even cooler, you can turn the heli ~45 degrees in either direction when not shooting, and shoot to hold that position.

You can shoot while turning (with the single fire button, if I remember correctly).

[dunpeal2064]

Sonic Wings Special has a helicopter character, and the heli is the Hokum, which later appears in Zero Gunner 2. Whats even cooler, you can turn the heli ~45 degrees in either direction when not shooting, and shoot to hold that position.

You can shoot while turning (with the single fire button, if I remember correctly).

You are right! Holding A (Saturn) keeps the ship fixed, but using Autofire (C) allows the ship to turn and shoot.

Looks like Gunbird 2 showed up today as well, so I can finally get my ass kicked

[burgerkingdiamond]

Namiki's farts sound better than Raiden II music. Raiden II's music was written on Fisher-Price My First BGM Machine by a 5 year old.

Enjoy.

blasphemer.

[professor ganson]

Cave vs. Psikyo is an ancient dispute, but it's always been a bit silly because it's apples and oranges: the stereotype Cave game and the stereotype Psikyo are doing such different things. I won't elaborate because this point is pretty obvious if you know both styles well.

I love Psikyo mainly for six reasons: (i) super fast bullets are awesome to behold and almost always better than slow ones, (ii) proximal attacks are too much fun for words and almost always better than distal ones, (iii) the memorizable patterns + slow, overpowered characters make it possible for less skilled players like myself to achieve special things, (iv) the art style is admittedly uneven but sometimes really remarkable (e.g. Sengoku Ace!), (v) the pick-up-n-play gameplay is great for those of us who don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out and mastering scoring rules, and (vi) the games are just so damn addictive!

[Psikyo_Ball]

I love Psikyo mainly for six reasons: (i) super fast bullets are awesome to behold and almost always better than slow ones, (ii) proximal attacks are too much fun for words and almost always better than distal ones, (iii) the memorizable patterns + slow, overpowered characters make it possible for less skilled players like myself to achieve special things, (iv) the art style is admittedly uneven but sometimes really remarkable (e.g. Sengoku Ace!), (v) the pick-up-n-play gameplay is great for those of us who don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out and mastering scoring rules, and (vi) the games are just so damn addictive!

+1

[Treasurance]

mame shmups suck when played on an emulator

[RNGmaster]

mame shmups suck when played on an emulator

You haven't played Dragon Blaze much, have you?

[Arcade Legends 3]

The action-packedness of lightning fast boss patterns, that are undodgeable without memorization, is something CAVE and any other developer can't give me. I don't get why people call this unfair, cheap or whatever - nothing beats the feeling when you have fully memorized a pattern and just wander through the mazes with ease, letting the noobish spectator's jaw drop to the ground. Psikyo games are excellent for showing off.

But Psikyo's games are cheap... With the solely exception of "Lode Runner" and Gunbarich.
Yeah, all that dodging is impressive - but what is to the developer? To develope such a memorizer - one has not to be a great ninja; go play some "Darius Gaiden - Silver Hawk". I mean that Psikyo's games just look like a pure cheap thing.

But what about CAVE? There is just Guwange - nothing more!
Screw CAVE! And harder of it - Psikyo!
CAVE is for losers!

p.s. Of course, this is just a personal opinion - we are at a forum after all.
p.p.s. Yeah, I know the thing... But, I repeat - CAVE is for losers.

[RNGmaster]

longpost

Psikyo games are not memorizers. Lots of people think they are, since it's hard to play them when starting the genre out, but I don't see how an experienced player could possibly consider them memo-based. The bullets are generally quite fast, but to dodge them you just have to develop reflexes - I can only think of a few sections that are impossibl euntil you've worked out the tricks, and those are mostly in the second loop, by which point you'll have enough skill to figure them out on your own without resorting to copying down someone's strategies.

Psikyo's games are some of the best pure dodging games out there, since they constantly barrage you with bullets in novel combinations at all angles, demanding fast play and aggressiveness to survive. If you want to know what a memorizer is, play R-Type.

[Sapz]

I gotta admit, as much as I love them, he's correct - they're largely static games and most things in them can be memorized, to my knowledge. This includes things like timing the fighters in the loop of S1999 so they appear at convenient times. Reflexes play a large part of course, but more in the sense that they'll let you know when to do something rather than what to do in the first place (which is the memo part). I disagree with everything else he said, though - they take a lot of skill and practice to do well in for sure. Really exciting to play and a difficult test of your execution, especially in the loops.

[RNGmaster]

Require a large amount of memorization? Sure. Memo-based? No. To me, memorizer means that if you know the tricks - "The molten metal falls this way", "The hatch spits out 3 enemies here" you're not going to die except by extreme stupidity, though there are some exceptions like R-Type Delta's last stage. Psikyo games (especially loops) are damn hard even if you know what to do.

Pardon me, I seem to be a bit drunk today.

[Erppo]

All shmups are more or less memo-based and Psikyo games are deep into the "more" category. I don't see how an experienced player could possibly think otherwise.

[RNGmaster]

All shmups are more or less memo-based and Psikyo games are deep into the "more" category. I don't see how an experienced player could possibly think otherwise.

Shoesama might disagree.

I'm no experienced player (as you well know, I have no good score to my name, and little diversity in my shmup experience) but it rankles me to hear my favorite games called memorizers. That's like someone calling DFK a euroshmup - it's true in a sense, but still really hard to hear.

[Erppo]

All shmups are more or less memo-based and Psikyo games are deep into the "more" category. I don't see how an experienced player could possibly think otherwise.

Shoesama might disagree.

why did you call it moron play?
fatalfury28 3 years ago

cuz I went into it mindlessly without learning any of the patterns duh
shoesama 3 years ago

Yeah seems so!

I'm no experienced player (as you well know, I have no good score to my name, and little diversity in my shmup experience) but it rankles me to hear my favorite games called memorizers. That's like someone calling DFK a euroshmup - it's true in a sense, but still really hard to hear.

Why? Heavy on memorization is not a bad thing, it's just a thing. I love Psikyo games because they are really good memorizers and that's sort of what I have heard from everyone more into Psikyo than me. The latter part on the other hand is not true in any sense so I'm not even going to comment it.

[RNGmaster]

Why? Heavy on memorization is not a bad thing, it's just a thing. I love Psikyo games because they are really good memorizers and that's sort of what I have heard from everyone more into Psikyo than me. The latter part on the other hand is not true in any sense so I'm not even going to comment it.

This is what I think of when I hear a game called a memorizer. That's the I Wanna Be The Guy style of challenge, not the fair but really balls hard challenge you'll find in most shmups.

That's why I don't like Psikyo games being called memorizers - because aside from one or two annoying situations (like the stupid cannon 20 seconds into 1-6 of Strikers 2), you won't be shouting at the screen "That death was bullshit, I couldn't have predicted that!". When you die, it's because you didn't dodge well enough.

[chum]

no, Psikyo games really are memorizers

[mesh control]

So is every shmup ever made.

[Vyxx]

no, Psikyo games really are memorizers

yeah cause cave games aren't lmao

[chum]

lmao

[azinth]

wut

Of course Psikyo shmups are all about memorization. They're shmups, after all.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

This is what I think of when I hear a game called a memorizer. That's the I Wanna Be The Guy style of challenge, not the fair but really balls hard challenge you'll find in most shmups.

That's why I don't like Psikyo games being called memorizers - because aside from one or two annoying situations (like the stupid cannon 20 seconds into 1-6 of Strikers 2), you won't be shouting at the screen "That death was bullshit, I couldn't have predicted that!". When you die, it's because you didn't dodge well enough.

Oh come on now, does no one seriously not see that lava burst coming? the entire upper half of the screen is glowing red before it strikes. Also, the fact that you only cite horizontals as 'cheap memorizers' makes it hard for me to get your points, because it just seems more like inexperiance on your end than anything. It took less than a week for me to clear R-Type, and I managed to get 3 stages in the 2nd loop totally blind. Oh yeah, and in all my attempts at the 1cc, including the one that succeeded were completely improvised at the 7th stage. I still have no idea what the intended method for it is.

[Udderdude]

This is what I think of when I hear a game called a memorizer. That's the I Wanna Be The Guy style of challenge, not the fair but really balls hard challenge you'll find in most shmups.

That's why I don't like Psikyo games being called memorizers - because aside from one or two annoying situations (like the stupid cannon 20 seconds into 1-6 of Strikers 2), you won't be shouting at the screen "That death was bullshit, I couldn't have predicted that!". When you die, it's because you didn't dodge well enough.

Oh come on now, does no one seriously not see that lava burst coming? the entire upper half of the screen is glowing red before it strikes.

I just thought it was some random light effect that was added because you're coming out of the tunnel. In no way does it absolutely say "lol giant fire lazor incoming".

Another thing that would help is an audio cue - maybe some deep rumbling sound that gets louder as the GIANT FIRE LAZOR OF DOOM approaches. Maybe even make the screen start shaking a little bit.

[Matskat]

At least I can look back at this forum topic that I created - knowing deep inside that my mark has been left.

That said, something like this


******WARNING*********
GIANT FIRE LAZOR OF DOOM
GIANT FIRE LAZOR OF DOOM
GIANT FIRE LAZOR OF DOOM
*****APPROACHES******


might work as a SUBTLE queue to remind the player to get dodging.....

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I just thought it was some random light effect that was added because you're coming out of the tunnel. In no way does it absolutely say "lol giant fire lazor incoming".

Glowing red=something hot. Either way, it's not going to kill you more than once so I still fail to see why it would be considered bad game design. If you're constantly being ambushed by the same enemies due to being unable to use any trail markers to remind yourself of their coming, then that's when I'd start calling bullshit. Thunder Force IV is a good example of this.

[MrChiggins]

Psikyo games aren't memorizers any more than Cave games are memorizers.

Psikyo = Faster bullet patterns, no environmental hazards, standard difficulty pacing
Cave = Slower more dense bullet patterns, no environmental hazards, standard difficulty pacing

If it's their first time playing a Psikyo game, people get killed and tend to feel like the death came out of nowhere. If it's their first time playing a Cave game, people get killed and tend to feel like they couldn't process the correct path through the bullets fast enough. That tends to be what first-time deaths in those games feel like... but in reality: You get better at a Psikyo game by playing it a lot. You get better at a Cave game by playing it a lot. You find paths through the patterns, you figure out which enemies should be dealt with quickly, and you discover better ways to score. Neither companies' games are closer to memorizers. I made it to stage 4 in Espgaluda II on my first try. I made it to stage 7 in Strikers 1945 II on my first try. I will admit that upon first glance, Psikyo games feel more like memorizers than Cave games... BUT THEY'RE NOT. <3

[Arcade Legends 3]

I am actually not a fan not of Psikyo, nor of CAVE. As for Psikyo - Gunbarich and "Lode Runner" and as for CAVE - Guwange. That is all.
I prefer Raizing, Capcom, Taito... and few others.

I made it to stage 4 in Espgaluda II on my first try. I made it to stage 7 in Strikers 1945 II on my first try.

What is your IQ, man? Have you did it: http://www.iqtest.dk.

[RNGmaster]

All you're doing is restating your opinion - at least tell us why you don't like Psikyo and CAVE. Too much memo? Bad aesthetics? What about their games gets on your nerves?

[Bananamatic]

psikyo is for losers
cave is for losers
Skonec master race

best visuals
best music
best scoring

korean shmups are the best

[dunpeal2064]

Wait, I'm supposed to be learning things from each run in a shmup? Thats way too much effort on my part, these games should please me with no effort on my part.

On a realistic note, how do you like Homura, Bananamatic? How does it hold up to Psyvariar?

[Bananamatic]

It's way too different to compare directly, definitely in my top 5 though - the level design is comparable to psyvariar with the stages being set up for you to score - playing just for the clear can be pretty boring.

It's much more 1cc friendly though with there being only one "clear" path compared to Psyvariar where you can call it a 1cc by taking the easiest path(and feeling disappointed about it).