Ketsui is too brutal

[RNGmaster]

Seriously?

It's funny you should bring this up right now because just yesterday I was playing DOJ and thinking about how much fun it is

I hated that game for the longest time and just couldn't make sense of it, but after clearing DDP and coming back it feels much more enjoyable. I think I just finally understand cave hitboxes and the patterns don't feel as cramped anymore. I've spent a LOT more time with DOJ than Ketsui at this point, and still find myself getting considerably further in Ketsui. Granted it's been a while since I played so I should probably revisit it.

For the record I've always found Cave games somewhat ugly. I'd say my favorite visually is MMP, probably followed by Progear or DOJ. I've just never cared for prerendered graphics

Edit: Just put a handful of credits through Ketsui, best was stage 4 midboss. I'm sure I would have at least hit the boss, if not stage 5, if I could remember how to get the extend out of the battleship.

Kill all parts before you kill the part with the big marshmallow bullets. See Sapz' demonstration.

[Deca]

Kill all parts before you kill the part with the big marshmallow bullets. See Sapz' demonstration.

See that's what I thought it was and what I've been doing, do you have to no bomb no miss from the point it appears to get it? Whenever I take out the last part the whole ship disappears. I'll go check out the vid.

[RNGmaster]

Kill all parts before you kill the part with the big marshmallow bullets. See Sapz' demonstration.

See that's what I thought it was and what I've been doing, do you have to no bomb no miss from the point it appears to get it? Whenever I take out the last part the whole ship disappears. I'll go check out the vid.

No bomb is necessary, but I'm not sure if it has to be no miss. Been a while.

[ratikal]

You can't bomb at either extends. You can miss though.

[man9child]

I haven't watched that particular demonstration, but a lot of videos kill the mothership extremely quickly so that bonus enemies appear. Makes sense from a scoring perspective, but it's kind of difficult.

A safer way would be to kill the bottom two segments as quick at possible, completely skip the midsection, kill the ship as it comes from the left, kill the top sections, and then kill the remaining ships that come from the left, just peppering the midsection with your part of your C shot while you wait. As soon as you kill the last ship you can switch to the A shot and focus on getting your 1up.

Once you get a pattern going, this midboss is almost foolproof provided you attack it the same way everytime.

[finisherr]

Although I haven't put all too much time into Ketsui, I took a long break as I was starting to get into 360 console stuff like Futari and DFK. I managed to 1CC Black Label Original, started playing DFK for a while but got bored (also confused on how to chain all of stage 3) then just recently started on God Mode (which is very very fun).

Now I'm stuck somewhere without my 360 so I popped on MAME for the first time in months. Started with Ketsui and was astonished at my noticeable improvement. Not that I think Ketsui isn't hard (it is). It's just that when I ran my first (approximation) 15-20 credits back in...September?...it seemed nearly impossible. Stage 2 was completely kicking my ass. Now, after playing some other stuff for a while, I was able to No Miss to Stage 3 within an hour or two. I also no missed all of stage 3 from a save state just a few moments ago. Now I'm playing parts of stage 4 from stave states for laughs and realizing that this game isn't as difficult as I primarily perceived.

Perhaps those dense bullet patterns from Futari God mode has actually taught me something...

[emphatic]

Although I haven't put all too much time into Ketsui, I took a long break as I was starting to get into 360 console stuff like Futari and DFK. I managed to 1CC Black Label Original, started playing DFK for a while but got bored (also confused on how to chain all of stage 3) then just recently started on God Mode (which is very very fun).

Now I'm stuck somewhere without my 360 so I popped on MAME for the first time in months. Started with Ketsui and was astonished at my noticeable improvement. Not that I think Ketsui isn't hard (it is). It's just that when I ran my first (approximation) 15-20 credits back in...September?...it seemed nearly impossible. Stage 2 was completely kicking my ass. Now, after playing some other stuff for a while, I was able to No Miss to Stage 3 within an hour or two. I also no missed all of stage 3 from a save state just a few moments ago. Now I'm playing parts of stage 4 from stave states for for laughs and realizing that this game isn't as difficult as I primarily perceived.

Perhaps those dense bullet patterns from Futari God mode has actually taught me something...

The 360 port runs faster than PCB/MAME.

[Gus]

Although I haven't put all too much time into Ketsui, I took a long break as I was starting to get into 360 console stuff like Futari and DFK. I managed to 1CC Black Label Original, started playing DFK for a while but got bored (also confused on how to chain all of stage 3) then just recently started on God Mode (which is very very fun).

Now I'm stuck somewhere without my 360 so I popped on MAME for the first time in months. Started with Ketsui and was astonished at my noticeable improvement. Not that I think Ketsui isn't hard (it is). It's just that when I ran my first (approximation) 15-20 credits back in...September?...it seemed nearly impossible. Stage 2 was completely kicking my ass. Now, after playing some other stuff for a while, I was able to No Miss to Stage 3 within an hour or two. I also no missed all of stage 3 from a save state just a few moments ago. Now I'm playing parts of stage 4 from stave states for for laughs and realizing that this game isn't as difficult as I primarily perceived.

Perhaps those dense bullet patterns from Futari God mode has actually taught me something...

Yeah, even if you're getting your ass handed to you making a serious effort with harder stuff can definitely help prepare you for difficult games better than just padding out your 1cc list with easy stuff. Funny that you mentioned Futari God mode as that's also what got me good.

[Aliquantic]

The 360 port runs faster than PCB/MAME.

The difference is slight (to the order of 2% IIRC) and won't really affect the difficulty of the game, though it can be pretty annoying for a few advanced techniques (mainly empty locking).

[emphatic]

The 360 port runs faster than PCB/MAME.

The difference is slight (to the order of 2% IIRC) and won't really affect the difficulty of the game, though it can be pretty annoying for a few advanced techniques (mainly empty locking).

It's quite noticeable if you play one of the versions for a long time than switch. I had a hard time adjusting to the PCB after playing the port extensively. The bullet speed was my biggest concern, empty locking is super easy.

[Aliquantic]

empty locking is super easy.

Outside of a very few choice spots where it is indeed easy (big, full of health targets), I'm really confused by that statement, especially when it comes to empty locking popcorn or the other shenanigans of high-level play... how much can you get on the first loop then?

[Siren2011]

I worked myself up into insanity, but such a push lead me to the Ura loop...

No time for celebration. There is no way in fucking hell I can clear this. Not now, not nine years down the line with immense practice. I'm so burned out with this game, and I've grown to hate the scoring system. (Just thinking of doing it all over again just to get ass raped in the first two stages of Ura loop makes me nauseous.) Because of these recent developments, I have decided to break my own oath. (Yes, I know the hypocrisy is beautiful.) From now on, I will use save states when getting to the Ura loop, as well as the Ura loop itself. Flame me all you want, but once I get to DOOM, I will fight him fair and square. No mid battle saving, no continuing. The fight should have come immediately after the fake last boss of the main game, so this is proper in my mind. It's right were I left off. In fact, I think I'll save right before DOOM and after 1CCing the game with an average score, I'll load the fight up as a gift to myself for working my ass off.

I haven't done this in a shmup since early 2008 when I discovered the genre. Can't say that I'm proud of myself. But thankfully, I can't say that I'm disappointed with myself, either. After all, ura and tsuujou are overkill, and CAVE should have left them out of the game entirely, or at least made them as separate modes, not a freaking requirement for meeting quite possibly the most badass, hardened boss in gaming history. Yeah yeah I get it, ridiculously difficult loops make the game more epic, blahblahblah.

Do not misunderstand me (Paradigm, *cough). Before you assault me with nasty bullshit, I must say OF COURSE I appreciate and respect those who were able to do what I couldn't. I just have no desire whatsoever to go down that same path when there are alternate, simpler methods for getting what I want. And of course it goes without saying that they are more skilled than I will ever be at this game. Fine by me. Espgaluda 2 is calling.

I'm really confused by that statement

I second the fuck out of this^ Airlocking is the worst for me.

[Gus]

How do you do airlocking? I just got the game and really have no clue what's going on in the high scoring replays. And yeah, the game seems really brutal. I'm probably gonna stick to something easier to like Futari Ultra lol.

[Sapz]

Basically you want to attack an enemy with the regular shot and start switching into lock shot just as the enemy is about to die, and killed them off mid-transition since your options will still be firing the regular shot as they move - you'll get a larger amount of chips (up to the amount you get while locking), but won't cash in your multiplier until you're fully in lock shot mode. It's very difficult aside from a few obvious spots like the large planes at the start of stage 1.

[finisherr]

Does anyone have a link to a good description of scoring mechanics or tips on how to score? As of now, the only thing I know to do is to point blank just about everything. But...I'm definitely missing something.

[emphatic]

Does anyone have a link to a good description of scoring mechanics or tips on how to score? As of now, the only thing I know to do is to point blank just about everything. But...I'm definitely missing something.

http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Ke ... Scores.htm

[finisherr]

thanks! good explanation in that link!

[Krimzon Kitzune]

*removed*

[Siren2011]

So you've changed your sig.

A quick threefold question for ya:

1. Who are you?

2. Why should I care? (Please be detailed in your argument. I promise not to consider it, anyway.)

3. For what reason is changing my sig something to be so annoyed by?

Plus, the personal dispute that you are opening has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, so I advise you answer my questions (or don't) then try really hard to shut your mouth. Could you do that for me, please?

Idiot.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

Sorry about that, it was really only a joke. Even then, I know I was out of line by posting something so stupid that wasn't even on-topic to begin with. Hope there aren't any hard feelings.

[Siren2011]

I strongly dislike holding grudges, so no. There are no hard feelings. I was over it the instant I typed my reply.

[captpain]

You two have to kiss now.

[Siren2011]

^ HAHA Damn it, I new someone was going to leave a comment of that nature! Well played.

[finisherr]

This game is really, really awesome. I think it's quickly becoming my favorite vertical STG.

[Never_Scurred]

This game is really, really awesome. I think it's quickly becoming my favorite vertical STG.

Likewise.
I'm loving the difficulty curve as well. After a day or two of light play, I made it to the 2nd boss unscathed on normal difficulty.

[Siren2011]

I got DOOM down to critical condition today. Literally, the orange of his bar was completely gone. It would have taken less than half a second of me hanging in there longer to beat him...

Needless to say, I beat the shit out of my punching bag immediately afterwards. This fucker is one of the hardest videogame bosses of all time. There is no question about that. All of the CAVE shooters have bosses with patterns that make you think, "wow, this is brutally unforgiving, but I'll manage." Seeing the patterns for DOOM made me think for the first time, "Is this even possible?"

Of course I know now that the answer is yes. There's a video on YouTube (which I'm sure all of you have seen) of that brave guy who almost no missed DOOM, but ran into the same fate as I did.

Anyone who has experience fighting both, can you tell me which is harder, Hibachi or DOOM?

[finisherr]

I've never attempted to beat the 2nd loop of any game so I don't have any experience with these ultra difficult bosses. To be honest, I'm not sure if I'll ever get to the point where I can No Miss all of loop one (that is one of the requirements for Doom in the second loop right?). Good job though. Seems like it takes considerable skill just to come face to face with that f*cker.

Today I No Miss No Bombed Stage 1-3 with the 1-Up from the submarine vessel. I feel pretty good about it.

[O. Van Bruce]

missmatched thread... took me some time to notice...

[Aliquantic]

Seems like it takes considerable skill just to come face to face with that f*cker.

Or savestates (Which is what Siren did) The requirement to see Doom is to no miss/no bomb the first loop, and then you can screw around as much as you want/continue if all you care is to see it.

[Illyrian]

Seems like it takes considerable skill just to come face to face with that f*cker.

Or savestates (Which is what Siren did) The requirement to see Doom is to no miss/no bomb the first loop, and then you can screw around as much as you want/continue if all you care is to see it.

I thought if you use continues you don't get it?