Guwange 360

[bcass]

With this being an older game, my guess is that the slowdown was hardware-induced, meaning that it's going to be a lot more difficult to replicate in a port. Given Cave's track record on such issues, I'm not holding much hope of a high level of accuracy. Would love to be proven wrong though.

[moozooh]

I'm certain that wrapping it in an emulator is going to be both a lot easier and a lot more accurate than doing a direct port. It's not like there would be a significant difference in performance or download size in case with such an old game.

[bcass]

Well, they've been calling it a port, not an emulation. The chances of it being released as running under an emulator are slim IMO.

It's a shame Cave are wasting time coding ports, for two reasons. First, other companies do a far better job, and second, I'd rather they spent their time creating new stuff.

[roker]

I would've rather have had them doing a Muchi Muchi Pork or Pink Sweets XBLA port or even a new IP (like I was led to believe they were working on for the 360) than Guwange

but on the other hand, I'm looking forward to the arrange mode now.

[Kiken]

Well, they've been calling it a port, not an emulation. The chances of it being released as running under an emulator are slim IMO.

It's a shame Cave are wasting time coding ports, for two reasons. First, other companies do a far better job, and second, I'd rather they spent their time creating new stuff.

Asada stated in his blog that his team can now convert a PCB to 360 in a couple of days.. so it's not exactly a huge drain on Cave's internal staff to handle a port.

[bcass]

Yeah, I saw that blog post. All it means is that's all it takes to get stuff up and running. That doesn't mean the games run perfectly, bug-free, in a couple fo days. Then there's all the additional front-end stuff to produce. Getting things to run properly takes a lot longer, especially if you're having to simulate hardware-induced slowdown. Debugging constitutes a large part of any software development. Anyway, that's not the main reason they shouldn't be doing their own ports. The main reason is that other devs do a much better job than they do.

[Kiken]

Yeah, I saw that blog post. All it means is that's all it takes to get stuff up and running. That doesn't mean the games run perfectly, bug-free, in a couple fo days. Then there's all the additional front-end stuff to produce. Getting things to run properly takes a lot longer, especially if you're having to simulate hardware-induced slowdown. Debugging constitutes a large part of any software development. Anyway, that's not the main reason they shouldn't be doing their own ports. The main reason is that other devs do a much better job than they do.

Their port team is separate from their arcade team... apart from when Ikeda is called in to help tweak things.

As for other companies handling their ports... yeah, Arika does an amazing job... M2, not so much.

[bcass]

M2 did a great job IMO. 5pb would be my first choice though after the steller Ketsui port.

[njiska]

M2 did a great job IMO. 5pb would be my first choice though after the steller Ketsui port.

M2's Mushi port is awesome. not 100% accurate, but very polished with more options than you could ever hope for. For me it's the standard for how an arcade port should be made. Akira is still the best in terms of accuracy due to the extreme analness with which they produce ports.

[emphatic]

M2 did a great job IMO. 5pb would be my first choice though after the steller Ketsui port.

M2's Mushi port is awesome. not 100% accurate, but very polished with more options than you could ever hope for. For me it's the standard for how an arcade port should be made. Akira is still the best in terms of accuracy due to the extreme analness with which they produce ports.

If you won't play the PCB of Ketsui any time soon, the port is great. But once you play the PCB again (or for the first time) it's like "what just a God damn minute, what's goin' on here?". It's very hard not noticing how much faster the port is than the PCB.

[BulletMagnet]

5pb would be my first choice though after the steller Ketsui port.

It probably would have turned out like DOJ Black Label X if they hadn't been bailed out.

[msm]

If you won't play the PCB of Ketsui any time soon, the port is great. But once you play the PCB again (or for the first time) it's like "what just a God damn minute, what's goin' on here?". It's very hard not noticing how much faster the port is than the PCB.

i haven't noticed that, not played either in a while though. where is it faster?

[emphatic]

i haven't noticed that, not played either in a while though. where is it faster?

All of it is faster. Also, some patterns "loose" bullets in the PCB version because of the limitations of the SH2 hardware, such as those big balls coming out of the stage 5 mid boss, making the 360 somewhat harder IMHO.

[nZero]

All of it is faster. Also, some patterns "loose" bullets in the PCB version because of the limitations of the SH2 hardware, such as those big balls coming out of the stage 5 mid boss, making the 360 somewhat harder IMHO.

PGM hardware. Cave has never used an SH2-based system for an arcade release.

[emphatic]

PGM hardware. Cave has never used an SH2-based system for an arcade release.

My bad. I thought that PGM was SH2 hardware, thanks for the schooling.

[drunkninja24]

I just wish Arika would get over the fact that you can't do 240p on the 360 and port some stuff. I mean, I like how anal they are about arcade accuracy, but if that's seriously the only thing keeping them from working on Cave ports, that's kinda ridiculous.

[msm]

i haven't noticed that, not played either in a while though. where is it faster?

All of it is faster. Also, some patterns "loose" bullets in the PCB version because of the limitations of the SH2 hardware, such as those big balls coming out of the stage 5 mid boss, making the 360 somewhat harder IMHO.

thanks for the info. i can get pretty much the exact same (rubbish) score on both so assumed they were pretty similar.

[evil_ash_xero]

OK, how come Arcade Modes on Death Smiles, Futari, and Galuda II look so bad, but Ketusi and DOJ look decent on a small LCD?(Ketsui actually looks pretty good on my big LCD)

[drunkninja24]

OK, how come Arcade Modes on Death Smiles, Futari, and Galuda II look so bad, but Ketusi and DOJ look decent on a small LCD?(Ketsui actually looks pretty good on my big LCD)

Do those arcade modes have filters? If not, that may be why.

[njiska]

OK, how come Arcade Modes on Death Smiles, Futari, and Galuda II look so bad, but Ketusi and DOJ look decent on a small LCD?(Ketsui actually looks pretty good on my big LCD)

Do those arcade modes have filters? If not, that may be why.

That's Exactly it. No filters are used for any of those arcade mode. Ketsui doesn't have an option to turn the filters off, at least not that i've found. Nearest neighbour looks pretty good on my Arcade monitor though.

[antron]

I compared DS Arcade and 360 modes through an Extron emotia on a 15kHz monitor. The 360 actually looked better; it's almost like the Arcade mode resolution was too low.

[moozooh]

Nearest neighbour looks pretty good on my Arcade monitor though.

Nearest neighbor is pretty much equal to no filtering. Without it you would only be able to scale the picture by integer ratios (i. e., 1:1, 2:1, etc.).

[DazTM]

Put this in the wrong place earlier.

Anyway, I've been playing this for about an hour so far and have the following information that some may or may not find useful

It features the following.
Arcade
Blue Arrange
Xbox 360 Arrange

Each of these has
Normal Play
Score Attack
Training

There is a Co-Op mode and rankings, both online and local.

As for as options go.
7 different wallpapers
5 window modes including a TATE mode (however, you can't change the dimensions, so it doesn't fill the entire screen.
I also didn't see an option to change the controls to Tate mode, but I may have missed this.
There is no option to change the slowdown in any of the menus, but the 360 arrange mode did feel a little faster. This might just be me though.

Graphically there is no additional options. It appears to be using the same filters that Ketsui uses. Sadly the TV i'm playing it on is quite tiny, but I couldn't notice any scan lines.

No idea on the price as that option didn't come up.

[Jockel]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31389

[DazTM]

Sorry was too lazy to find the thread. Was just excited to be playing it on partnernet.

[Ghegs]

Threads merged.

[subcons]

5 window modes including a TATE mode (however, you can't change the dimensions, so it doesn't fill the entire screen.
I also didn't see an option to change the controls to Tate mode, but I may have missed this.

Graphically there is no additional options. It appears to be using the same filters that Ketsui uses. Sadly the TV i'm playing it on is quite tiny, but I couldn't notice any scan lines.

Hmm... sort of a downer. I like being able to fine tune my image with verts. Also, just to clarify: if you TATE it, do the controls move with it, or is it like you're playing it sideways?

[moozooh]

You have to hold your gamepad sideways to play it in tate.

[Square King]

You have to hold your gamepad sideways to play it in tate.

This is true.

(today is opposite day)

[Phellan Wolf]

Put this in the wrong place earlier.

Anyway, I've been playing this for about an hour so far and have the following information that some may or may not find useful

It features the following.
Arcade
Blue Arrange
Xbox 360 Arrange

Each of these has
Normal Play
Score Attack
Training

There is a Co-Op mode and rankings, both online and local.

As for as options go.
7 different wallpapers
5 window modes including a TATE mode (however, you can't change the dimensions, so it doesn't fill the entire screen.
I also didn't see an option to change the controls to Tate mode, but I may have missed this.
There is no option to change the slowdown in any of the menus, but the 360 arrange mode did feel a little faster. This might just be me though.

Graphically there is no additional options. It appears to be using the same filters that Ketsui uses. Sadly the TV i'm playing it on is quite tiny, but I couldn't notice any scan lines.

No idea on the price as that option didn't come up.

It is already out on XBLA???? Damn I have to look for it when I'll come back home.