NESRGB board available now

[Voultar]

I'm wondering if the dirty chip removal method would save time and maybe some of the pads and maybe be the only method available for ppl without hot air stations etc.
Cut the legs from the chip, swipe off the legs from the pcb with a soldering iron and solder on the right chip.
I seen Dave from eevblog do it this way once, looked easy enough, I don't remember if i've ever done it with a surface mount chip though.
Vid link, he starts talking about cutting it out about 5:35 in to it.
Could also do ChipQuik, dave's vid about it.

The legs are at such a fine pitch, that method could get really nasty for those modders out there who don't have a lot of experience with SMD components.

Then again, there might not be much choice in the matter, I'm quite curious to see how Tim handles it.

[CkRtech]

Dave is a great guy. The eevblog is definitely a fun channel to follow.

I don't see a reason to try to salvage the replacement RAM on the NESRGB. So cutting it out and cleaning up the board in order to drop in the original RAM used with the board is the way to go. If anyone has been avoiding surface mount soldering, now is the time to practice! (It isn't that hard. Also - Use flux). Don't practice on your NESRGB board, though.

Not everyone is going to want to go this route, and I imagine Tim will have a fair solution that involves getting a replacement out to you. It will certainly be an exercise in patience this way, though. However if you are nervous about surface mount soldering, you should probably wait until a return/exchange program is setup. You don't want to ruin your board.

For anyone interested, I compiled an image of the differences between the two chips. In addition to the pinouts being different for your A lines, The Row/Column feed is totally different (see Logic block diagram).

[ninn]

omg ....

As if desoldering a through-hole chip wasn't hard enough for the layman, - replacing a surface mount chip most likely is.

I will manage it.
More concerned about viletim. Hope he can still sleep.

[game-tech.us]

Vid for those that want to see the issue, and yes some more criticisms...

[lettuce]

Unfortunately, I don't think the Everdrive N8 currently has the ability to play NSF music files. Besides Lagrange Point (don't count on that ever being playable on Everdrive or Powerpak ) I don't know of any games that exclusively use expansion audio. However, Erika to Satoru no Yume Bouken should work as a good test. The title screen and intro use expansion audio channels for the main part of the melody, so it should be REALLY obvious if something is missing.

Here's a video of its title & intro music


On your other question about pin 9, are you talking about the PPU or the expansion connector? I'm just wondering if there was some confusion between the two because you've only mentioned audio problems, which would deal with pin 9 on the expansion connector. Anyway, pin 9 on the expansion connector should be connected to pin 54 on the 72 pin cartridge connector. If that trace is broken, you might just want to get the expansion audio directly from pin 54 instead of repairing the trace to pin 9. If you really are having problems with pin 9 on the PPU, that should be connected to pin 66 on the cartridge slot if you cannot repair the trace.

Thanks ill test that game out

I was talking about the socket that pin 9 on the PPU chip goes into on the mainboard sorry

[CkRtech]

Vid for those that want to see the issue, and yes some more criticisms...

Ahh man. That scratch hurts. Even if it were just a bit of solder-mask, it shouldn't be there.

Poor us. Poor Tim. We'll get through it, guys. Hang in there.

[Vigormortis]

I actually find desoldering SMD chips without the proper equipment to be a bit easier than desoldering through hole chips without the proper equipment - especially in a case like this, where you don't have to try to save the chip that is being desoldered. For an IC shaped like the one in question, I generally heat all the legs on one side, lift them with the help of a needle, then take the whole chip and wiggle it until the legs on the other side break off. Finally, I just use the soldering iron to clean off the remaining leg bits on the board.

[philexile]

Could also do ChipQuik, dave's vid about it.

I can vouch for ChipQuik too. That stuff really works well and is $13 on Amazon. (Though people shouldn't have to repair their own boards)

omg ....
As if desoldering a through-hole chip wasn't hard enough for the layman, - replacing a surface mount chip most likely is.

Yes, there is DEFINITELY room for error with this sort of thing – though the RAM chip doesn't look to have pins that terribly small.

[opt2not]

Awwww, damn... a bunk second batch!

I hope Tim can get this sorted out, I feel really bad for harping on you guys about being impatient, and now we're all waiting to receive a defective board. <sigh> The hits just keep comin' don't they??

Tim, if you are planning to replace our orders with working ones, would now be the time to add in a few of those design changes mentioned earlier?

[Voultar]

Awwww, damn... a bunk second batch!

I hope Tim can get this sorted out, I feel really bad for harping on you guys about being impatient, and now we're all waiting to receive a defective board. <sigh> The hits just keep comin' don't they??

Tim, if you are planning to replace our orders with working ones, would now be the time to add in a few of those design changes mentioned earlier?

That's a solid question. I'd much rather be patient and receive something revised and functional, without having to pay anything more out of my own pocket.

[mvsfan]

Awwww, damn... a bunk second batch!

I hope Tim can get this sorted out, I feel really bad for harping on you guys about being impatient, and now we're all waiting to receive a defective board. <sigh> The hits just keep comin' don't they??

Tim, if you are planning to replace our orders with working ones, would now be the time to add in a few of those design changes mentioned earlier?

That's a solid question. I'd much rather be patient and receive something revised and functional, without having to pay anything more out of my own pocket.

yeah. sounds good but i dont know how feasible that would be. Perhaps the reason he didnt update the second batch is it would have been too costly.

Im just happy that i built my personal front loader from the first batch.

As it stand right now im still in the game

Otherwise i would have been very disappointed at this development.

now its just a matter of whenever i can send them back.

[Zets13]

Otherwise i would have been very disappointed at this development as i would imagine some people are right now.

Ya think? Haha, oh well, hopefully that is the only thing wrong with this batch. At least ordering the replacement chip made me order some capacitors that I'd been putting off buying.

Just hoping there is no damage to my board that I haven't noticed yet like there was with gametech's....

[Slymick]

Seeing we can at least get a picture out of board, might(!) indicate that this could be fixed by a software update. its a big might.

The bottom left of the board looks like its programming points??? jtag, serial???

I'd much rather reflash a chip then resolder it.

[Voultar]

I'm not buying anything until Tim responds to the issue globally.

Oversights happen, absolutely. But the customer shouldn't be penalized for that, regardless of how big or small the operation is, being hobby or not: If you have a product that's lucrative that you're profiting from, well, there ya go.


Tim's a good dude. He'll sort everyone out proper.

[mvsfan]

Mine look good except for that chip. I dont know how this wasnt discovered before they all shipped out. some people will try to replace this chip themselves but im not set up to do that.

[viletim]

I thought some were tested before they shipped out?

All boards are tested. It's unfortunate the game I use for testing does not exibit the problems described.

For anyone interested, I compiled an image of the differences between the two chips. In addition to the pinouts being different for your A lines, The Row/Column feed is totally different (see Logic block diagram).

The two parts are fuctionally compatible. The manufacturers name the address/data pins in different ways but the function is the same. The difference is likely something much more subtle, perhaps I'm volating a timing requirement.

I'm not buying anything until Tim responds to the issue globally.

Oversights happen, absolutely. But the customer shouldn't be penalized for that, regardless of how big or small the operation is, being hobby or not: If you have a product that's lucrative that you're profiting from, well, there ya go.

Replaceing the chip will solve the problem but I don't think that is viable for most people. I don't remommend it to anybody that is not comfortable soldering these packages.

Seeing we at least get a picture out of board, this just might(!) indicate that this could be fixed by a software update. its a big might.

The bottom left of the board looks like its programming points??? jtag, serial???

I'd much rather reflash a chip then resolder it.

It's likely I will be able to solve the problem in the HDL (PLDs don't have software, but it's the same idea). The programming points are JTAG. Please be patient, I'll need a few days to work out exactly what's going on.

[CkRtech]

Hey Tim!

For anyone interested, I compiled an image of the differences between the two chips. In addition to the pinouts being different for your A lines, The Row/Column feed is totally different (see Logic block diagram).

The two parts are fuctionally compatible. The manufacturers name the address/data pins in different ways but the function is the same. The difference is likely something much more subtle, perhaps I'm volating a timing requirement.

I was kinda scratching my chin about something like that, but I have no true experience with it. I was wondering if it would really matter...

Obviously, we wish you luck.

[ApolloBoy]

Looks like someone in China is working on something very similar to the Universal PPU: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10920

[viletim]

I have fixed the problem in 'software'. All NESRGB units sent out in the last two weeks will need to be reprogrammed. Today I placed an order for 30 USB JTAG programmers, they should show up here in about a week. That gives me time to test the HDL 'software' thoroughly and make sure there are no other problems lurking.

I will send an email to all affected customers shortly. Please stand by for more news on the NESRGB Field Reprogramming Programme.

[ckong]

I received my boards today, order #61, shipped at 15th January. I just logged into the forum to do some reading about installation instructions etc. and now I stumbled across this 'issue' with the second batch.

But it seems that Tim is on to it, and I am sure that there will be a good solution. It will only be some time longer before I can enjoy true RGB from my frontloader NES. In the meanwhile my boards will remain in the box.

[Elrinth]

Gonna chill until viletim has the final word. If we can fix this with software update then that's really really great and less to de/solder.
Cheapest USB JTAG programmer I could find on ebay was like $6 so hopefully this won't be too costy for tim.
Not going to order the proper sram just yet. I think everyone wants as simple & cheap a solution to this problem as possible.

[mickcris]

Gonna chill until viletim has the final word. If we can fix this with software update then that's really really great and less to de/solder.
Cheapest USB JTAG programmer I could find on ebay was like $6 but shipping will probably take a month or more if so.
Not going to order the proper sram just yet. I think everyone wants as simple & cheap a solution to this problem as possible.

Tim said 2 posts above yours that he fixed it with software and he ordered some JTAG programers for field reprogramming.

[nesfreak]

I have fixed the problem in 'software'.

My heart just smiled and made a warm fuzzy feeling!

[mvsfan]

this is a Nice development.

[thebert]

I registered just to say Thank You to Tim and the others involved in this project. I just got my shipping confirmation e-mail today, and I am very excited to receive my board!
Please don't get discouraged, and know that there are many people like me who are patient and understand the time you take out of your normal schedule to make an awesome project like this available to the community.

[McCracAttack]

I registered just to say Thank You to Tim and the others involved in this project. I just got my shipping confirmation e-mail today, and I am very excited to receive my board!
Please don't get discouraged, and know that there are many people like me who are patient and understand the time you take out of your normal schedule to make an awesome project like this available to the community.

And I registered to echo this sentiment. I'm certainly not pleased about receiving defective products. However, I am grateful that this product even exists in the first place and I appreciate that Tim has been open about it and communicating with everyone. Please continue to keep us informed.

[Zets13]

Glad that you were able to fix it, and for the time being will wait to hear what you have planned!

[opt2not]

Cool, I'm glad there's no SMD soldering involved.
Too bad for more wait time, but for now, once I receive the boards, I'm going to prep 'em like Skips has: headers for easy connections. Keeps it all clean, and if I ever needed to pull the NESRGB out, it'd be much easier without having to completely de-solder every wire.

[thebert]

Cool, I'm glad there's no SMD soldering involved.
Too bad for more wait time, but for now, once I receive the boards, I'm going to prep 'em like Skips has: headers for easy connections. Keeps it all clean, and if I ever needed to pull the NESRGB out, it'd be much easier without having to completely de-solder every wire.

Can you recommend an online store when I can get headers, connectors, ribbon cable, etc? I'd like to set mine up the same way, but I'm unsure of a good place to get components like that.

[opt2not]

Cool, I'm glad there's no SMD soldering involved.
Too bad for more wait time, but for now, once I receive the boards, I'm going to prep 'em like Skips has: headers for easy connections. Keeps it all clean, and if I ever needed to pull the NESRGB out, it'd be much easier without having to completely de-solder every wire.

Can you recommend an online store when I can get headers, connectors, ribbon cable, etc? I'd like to set mine up the same way, but I'm unsure of a good place to get components like that.

I believe Skips posted it earlier in the thread.

**edit: Actually, it was shadowkn55:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 46#p966946