The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[hzt]

If you're talking about the disc things that come straight at you, you don't dodge them, you stay still and laser them.

If you're actually talking about the pink bullets when it goes side to side I don't really know how to help there.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

DonPachi second stage boss. How do you expect me to dodge that?! I must be missing something.

You are, unless you're talking 2-2 boss, then I'm not sure.

Hahaha, then I MUST be missing something. I'll have to make a savestate later and work out what I'm doing wrong. I'll probably end up kicking myself.

As has been said, the disc popcorn it fires are dealt with by lasering (the aura will kill any that reach you). Chances are though, you mean the laser attack when it moves side to side. It does this three times at least (I just wasted it without bombs to see), and it's relatively easy to avoid. Basically, when it first appears, go next to the nose of the ship and follow it as it moves to the top of the screen to do double the damage via the laser aura. Then, when it's about to start moving to the left, move to the right side of the screen and shoot at its wing. It always moves left when it starts the attack, then it's just a matter of going to the bottom of the screen and staying in the middle where there's nice big gaps between the big shots (and you're far away from the faster, thin laser shots the wings shoot). When it slows down and returns to the middle of the screen, just move so you're on the outside of the left thick shots (move too far outside and the wing's thinner shots will hit you). Then just repeat until it's dead. Even without bombs you should kill it during the third laser attack, with one bomb you can kill it during the second laser attack.

[Zaarock]

yeah, you can kill the 1-2 boss in one round before it's attacks loop by lasering next to it and hitting with aura.. wish there was a similar trick to the 1-3 boss, it takes so long I usually make some really stupid mistake (and if you die, the rest takes twice as long, hurray)

[Shimatora]

Yeah, I was more having trouble with the start of the laser attack. I am fine with dodging it when it's fulling moving, but when it just starts I always manage to screw up. :V

Thanks for the help everyone, just about to give this a go!

EDIT: Found where I was going wrong - got myself into the bad habit of moving blindly out of panic at the start of where the boss moves from left to right. /facepalm

[BareKnuckleRoo]

wish there was a similar trick to the 1-3 boss,

I find it cuts a surprisingly large chunk of the fight time out if you get up close and aura it as soon as the main section is vulnerable. It always seems to start with that missile launch attack where they fly upwards and then slowly drift down, so it's safe to shotgun it at the start of the fight if you know what to expect. Then it's just a matter of lasering it and dodging; you should easily have a buffer of a couple bombs to use unless you're aiming to not use bombs for the bomb gauge bonus.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wow, I actually got past Truxton II's first boss with only a few tries (restarts). Man, I want to like this game, but I realized that I'm really not digging the stages and the enemy layouts - go left, go right, go left, go right...stay right...and so on. Feels more like whacking moles than a shmup right now.

[matrigs]

mushihimesama stage 4.

srsly the very moment before the midboss when those big bugs fly in from the top with this really spreaded shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve2KU8_3bi8&t=12m25s

also i just can't take him down fast enough and the stage continues further with new enemies when he is still
shooting his final pattern.

driving me nuts.

[O. Van Bruce]

mushihimesama stage 4.

srsly the very moment before the midboss when those big bugs fly in from the top with this really spreaded shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve2KU8_3bi8&t=12m25s

also i just can't take him down fast enough and the stage continues further with new enemies when he is still
shooting his final pattern.

driving me nuts.

Why don't you try S-Shot?

[matrigs]

mushihimesama stage 4.

srsly the very moment before the midboss when those big bugs fly in from the top with this really spreaded shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve2KU8_3bi8&t=12m25s

also i just can't take him down fast enough and the stage continues further with new enemies when he is still
shooting his final pattern.

driving me nuts.

Why don't you try S-Shot?

well i got used a lot to wide shot. i was using s-shot in arrange where scoring didn't matter at all. in arcade mode
i have tried to use some tricks from "the secret lover" and ended up getting some nice scores with wide. i can
sometimes grab 3 extends on stage 3, 2 point based and the 1up.

[O. Van Bruce]

S shot + spread laser formation = anti pop-corn enemy + powerful frontal attack.

I've only played the arcade version with MAME though...

PD: The secret lover?

[BIL]

PD: The secret lover?

INH's Superplay DVD for Mushihimesama. Like "The Lunatic Ibara," "The Second Apocalypse Ketsui," "The Madness Battle Garegga" and "The Onslaught Raiden Fighters." They always give them awesome names, haha.

[Deca]

Why don't you try S-Shot?

Why don't you try HARD?

[Giest118]

Those tanks in stage 5 of Donpachi that come up behind you and point-blank your face. Fuck those guys.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Had Futari over 2 years. Granted that I haven't been playing it all that time but it's had at least 6 solid months playtime. Still can't clear it. Definitely never will now.

I'm sure there's a good argument for just giving up if you don't clear something within 3 months because that's about when you hit the limit of what is possible.

[O. Van Bruce]

Had Futari over 2 years. Granted that I haven't been playing it all that time but it's had at least 6 solid months playtime. Still can't clear it. Definitely never will now.

I'm sure there's a good argument for just giving up if you don't clear something within 3 months because that's about when you hit the limit of what is possible.

It took me 6 months to clear my first Touhou on Normal... how is that to you DTP?

[BPzeBanshee]

Hey DrTrouserPlank, if it makes you feel any better you can always send it to me so the game gets used while not sitting around at your place to remind you of what you gave up on.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Enter DonPachi stage 4 boss with 3 spare lives

Enter Stage 5 on last life.

The only other death in the run before the stage 4 boss was on the stage 3 boss.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've been playing it (Futari) for the last couple of days again and what annoys me more than anything is that there's just no way to play these games casually and enjoy them (and also make progress). You seem to either have to drill the stages in marathon practice sessions as if it's your full time job and make minute progress over the course of many weeks, or just play them with the mindset that they are necessarily designed to be nigh on impossible to finish and just play on reactions with no intention of ever clearing them. The approaches are completely polarising. The first approach removes all the fun from the experience and is an exercise in frustration and the latter isn't much fun after the first few days either and is ultimately unsatisfying. You are pretty much condensing clearing the game down to memorising an extremely long sequence of sweeps and taps that cannot be deviated from.

Their faulty design is ultimately a product of them being arcade games. It's quite probable that if they were designed exclusively as console games then the difficulty curve wouldn't be so out of whack. It wouldn't take a lot of adjustment either. Either ease up the difficulty marginally or just up the starting lives. They'd still be more than difficult enough and would still take months to clear.

Seeing as they actually bothered to port them to consoles it's a shame that they didn't take the 5 minutes it would have to include a "console version" with adjusted difficulty for people who don't want to have to quit work in order to clear the arcade versions. It would certainly be better than the all-or-nothing approach of novice vs arcade.

[Paradigm]

k

[BareKnuckleRoo]

You are pretty much condensing clearing the game down to memorising an extremely long sequence of sweeps and taps that cannot be deviated from.

Yeah, there's absolutely no room for any error whatsoever in Cave shmups.

Seeing as they actually bothered to port them to consoles it's a shame that they didn't take the 5 minutes it would have to include a "console version" with adjusted difficulty for people who don't want to have to quit work in order to clear the arcade versions.

I'd point out Novice Ultra or Black Label Original/Maniac but I'm sure you'd just find a way to complain about those, too.

[matrigs]

Seeing as they actually bothered to port them to consoles it's a shame that they didn't take the 5 minutes it would have to include a "console version" with adjusted difficulty for people who don't want to have to quit work in order to clear the arcade versions. It would certainly be better than the all-or-nothing approach of novice vs arcade.

amazing how full of goo you are man.

tthey put a lot more than 5 minutes into novice modes.

but oh yeah i forgot that said earlier that the novice modes feel like "not playing the real thing".

so you basically want an easier game which isn't easier. makes perfect sense.

[mesh control]

Ignore dtp, he's just shaking the hornet's nest.

He doesn't like the games and we do and nothing we say will change his view.

He must be some sort of masochist IRL.







and L2P.

[Randorama]

I've been playing it (Futari) for the last couple of days again

Don't, please. Your comments are illogical and exhude raw ignorance of the games you claim to play, as well as a clear disregard of other people's help to your inhability to learn the raw basics of the games. Your postings are really obnoxious, although they are really the same post re-iterated ad nauseam.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

snip

I don't usually read this thread but sinse i'm here I might as well give my 2c (I'm not here to gloat just give words of encouragement)

As one semi casual shmupper to another you can beat Futari without putting in 6 hrs a day practice sessions, most days I play shmups its usually just 2-4 credits depending on if i'm practicing a stage or not, just break the game down and work on each area that gives you trouble.

If memorising sections is a pain because you keep on forgetting what you learnt before, then maybe it might be wise to write down your ideas on a notepad as you play, get yourself a capture card or look for a good replay, and watch it after every time you return to playing the game after a break. It's something I wished I had done when I picked up the game after a long rest and found myself having to practice parts I've already done before and forgotten them. I did have a notepad but its no good if I lose the damn thing (derp)

If you find yourself playing sloppy have 1 or 2 goes at stage 5 to warm up and get your concentration level higher. Helped me with Futari rather than just starting from stage 1 which tends to get very tedious since its so easy. Which I found for me leads to sloppy mistakes, restarts and having to spend more time playing stages 1 & 2, then boredom and quitting.


But yeah as others have said you do need to be abit more positive

[DrTrouserPlank]

I gave Novice maniac and ultra a go earlier this morning. Novice Ultra is definitely a better level of difficulty, but even leaving autobomb aside it is still a lot easier than 1.5 original. At least Novice ultra is playable for score though so I'll probably run through it a few more times. It's also more fun to play because a lot of the game can be played on the fly without needing to spend 6 months memorising every minute detail of the game in order to stand half a chance. You're still left with a massive jump between graduating from novice mode and moving on to arcade. I don't believe that BL is a stop-gap either. It's pretty much the same difficulty as 1.5 because what you gain in shot power you simply lose in pattern density.

[mesh control]

lol

[Drachenherz]

It's pretty much the same difficulty as 1.5 because what you gain in shot power you simply lose in pattern density.

No. Not at all. Try playing NOT for score, and you'll clear BL original with at least 1 or 2 lives left, after bomb-spamming larsa to death.

Watch the 1-sissy video of it.

[DrTrouserPlank]

snip

As one semi casual shmupper to another you can beat Futari without putting in 6 hrs a day practice sessions, most days I play shmups its usually just 2-4 credits depending on if i'm practicing a stage or not, just break the game down and work on each area that gives you trouble.

If memorising sections is a pain because you keep on forgetting what you learnt before, then maybe it might be wise to write down your ideas on a notepad as you play, get yourself a capture card or look for a good replay, and watch it after every time you return to playing the game after a break. It's something I wished I had done when I picked up the game after a long rest and found myself having to practice parts I've already done before and forgotten them. I did have a notepad but its no good if I lose the damn thing (derp)

If you find yourself playing sloppy have 1 or 2 goes at stage 5 to warm up and get your concentration level higher. Helped me with Futari rather than just starting from stage 1 which tends to get very tedious since its so easy. Which I found for me leads to sloppy mistakes, restarts and having to spend more time playing stages 1 & 2, then boredom and quitting.


But yeah as others have said you do need to be abit more positive

Frankly though, I had the stages memorised a while back but it wasn't enough. I know/knew this game upside down and back to front because I've wasted so much time trying to beat it and ultimately the realisation I've come to is that knowing the stages isn't enough. Even with a memorised route you still get hit, or accidentally do something wrong and it doesn't have to happen that many times for it to screw you. Mistakes happen. I don't accept that other people don't make them because it's BS. We're talking about the tiniest margins here.

I play it now, and not knowing it as well as I did only makes realise just how utterly ridiculous what you are trying to do is. I know that 99.999% of people wouldn't have stuck it for as long as I did, so how any number of people managed to clear it is beyond me.

Everyone is pretty quick to berate me with stupid comments when I post, but no-one as yet has come up with the answer as to why I can't clear it (when I'm clearly doing the same things as everyone else). The only difference is the result. There's no question in my mind that I've got a lot more knowledge and have memorised the game to a far greater extent than most people. As I say, all but the saddest closet-dwelling hermits would have given up long before I have in the absence of a breakthough, so evidently that in itself isn't enough.

But this all boils down to the same thing as usual really, I don't know why I'm still typing this...... playing it leads to keyboard fury... gonna stop now. :\

[iconoclast]

Everyone is pretty quick to berate me with stupid comments when I post, but no-one as yet has come up with the answer as to why I can't clear it (when I'm clearly doing the same things as everyone else). The only difference is the result.

Shumps aren't RPGs. You can't beat them by simply knowing the strategies, you have to have the skill to consistently execute them. Clearly, this is your roadblock, and the only solution is to suck it up and keep playing.

[Erppo]

but no-one as yet has come up with the answer as to why I can't clear it (when I'm clearly doing the same things as everyone else).

Bad motor skills, bad visual pattern recognition, bad strategic thinking, bad concentraion?