Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BryanM]

I'm not even sure about Bill Maher comparison, because I remember catching him every so often on Comedy Central back in the early-mid 90s and he was a raging bigoted douche back then too.

As smug and as far as his head was up his ass as it was, like anyone he's in a state of constant flux and transition.

He's come from maxing out for Bernie Sanders, endorsing him on his show, to being agnostic in 2020. He really likes Amy Klobuchar, yanno.

These days his #1 problem with the world is the "wokeness". He just can't stop worrying about it. Instead of accepting that comedy bits have a finite lifespan, that you have to change with the times, he's embraced that natural human desire to be lazy wholesale. The problem isn't with him, you see. It's all these damn young people.

The entire thing is, of course, a deflection from the fear of death. Mostly his upcoming personal death. But to a smaller degree, the death of an era.

Maher has become the worst Bill. Far worse than Moyers, worse than Burr. Even Clinton seems to at least enjoy being alive sometimes, with the bimbo boinking and all.

[Vanguard]

When San Franciscans recalled Weather Underground bastard child Chesa Boudin they were not thinking about billionaires.

Well let's look up what Rob is talking about and see what we can see...



Liberals are such a joke lmao

Maher has become the worst Bill. Far worse than Moyers, worse than Burr. Even Clinton seems to at least enjoy being alive sometimes, with the bimbo boinking and all.

Gates and it's not a close race.

[Air Master Burst]

I know a couple guys who went from milquetoast democrat to raging trump fan after their wives left them, but other than that this is a strange phenomenon.

It is not strange to see the hypocrisies and inconsistencies with liberalism and turn away from it. For instance, when it comes to the environment (digging up an old post).

a bunch of racist dogwhistle shit about immigration

What I'm getting from this response is that your wife left you for an immigrant.

Clearly the solution to the immigration-fueled climate crisis is whites must stop breeding!

Yeah, I love how the answer to overpopulation always seems to be less brown people but never less white people.

ETA: I love it even more when the same people who complain about overpopulation also complain about the gays because THATS NOT HOW YA MAKE BABIES!

[Rob]

Talk of immigration restriction always gets this stupid instantly. If you're not Matthew Yglesias you hate immigrants and "brown people".

Yeah, I love how the answer to overpopulation always seems to be less brown people but never less white people.

All environmentalists (all of the way back to John Muir) were as bad as you say until the guy with the bag of money showed up. This is partly what I'm talking about. Liberals and leftists have been conditioned to fight the ideological battles of the ruling class they claim to oppose. Like how Bernie used to call open borders a Koch brothers idea because it is good for the ruling class and not you.

[Mischief Maker]

Talk of immigration restriction always gets this stupid instantly.

Maybe it's a stupid topic!

Capital can hop the border at will and nobody bats an eye. But when workers try to cross the border to maximize their own gain, oh suddenly it's a crisis that needs to be clamped down with the harshest means imaginable... provided none of those means involves messing with the capital class using the imaginary distinction between "legal" and "illegal" people to duck labor laws.

Whatever you do, make sure the word "solidarity" is as far from your solution as possible!

[BulletMagnet]

You haven't yet addressed the elephant in the room Rob, so man up and state it plain: if overpopulation is the top-level environmental threat you say it is, in addition to keeping existing ethnic populations from other countries where they currently are (which doesn't actually address overpopulation and its environmental effects as a global issue, just how much of it we in the USA have to most immediately and directly deal with, but never mind), do you also support slowing or reversing the growth rate of our current "native" population and that of other countries with similar ethnic makeups to our own, especially considering these latter nations are, with few exceptions, the ones behind many of the planet's most drastic and consequential negative environmental effects, including the ones they routinely export to the "global south"?

[Sengoku Strider]

Liberals and leftists have been conditioned to fight the ideological battles of the ruling class they claim to oppose.

It's like they'll fall for anything.

[Rob]

But when workers try to cross the border to maximize their own gain, oh suddenly it's a crisis

If you care about the U.S. labor force as Bernie claimed to.

"It does not make a lot of sense to me to bring hundreds of thousands of those workers into this country to work for minimum wage and compete with Americans kids."

do you also support slowing or reversing the growth rate of our current "native" population and that of other countries with similar ethnic makeups to our own, especially considering these latter nations are, with few exceptions, the ones behind many of the planet's most drastic and consequential negative environmental effects, including the ones they routinely export to the "global south"?

I believe they are all sub-replacement already, and I think a natural contraction in developed nations is a good thing from an environmental and quality of life POV.

[orange808]

Liberals and leftists have been conditioned to fight the ideological battles of the ruling class they claim to oppose

There is no "left" in the decision room and people are too inherently corrupt to allow it. That isn't happening. Don't tell me about "communism", either. We both know that dictators use lefty rhetoric and empty promises to get into power, get rich, and bang young girls. It's all bullshit. Same as always.

Twitter is all the rage. No mention of the censorship of the left and all the work Twitter did to stop Bernie Sanders--and they still had difficulty containing it. Musk is choosing what he shares and he's still censoring us. The old centrist guard fought us and the new right regime is picking up where the centrists (aka the San Francisco-branded, Sicon Valley, Love Me Love Me Love Me I'm a Liberals) left off. Real "leaks" get released in full to the press--and, despite the lies both sides tell, good press outlets don't cave to politics. They tell the story.

It's Musk, Trump, and his rich gun humper Timmy McVeigh clones on the "right" versus Bezos, Hillz, and their rich centrist (supposedly the "left") friends in the Hamptons and in the valley.

Fuck. The left is not fighting shit. We're mostly silenced and disenfranchised. I have a little thing called principles and it's nonnegotiable, so all I can do is push back and hope things are better for the next generation.

The greatest asset of the right is the ability to make reality disappear and paint everything in polar/binary terms. Every disagreement is just "the left". You don't have to think or learn. You can just be certain you're correct--and nothing else matters. "The Left" is one unit; your own personal imaginary Borg. The details of the political landscape don't matter. Even the vote count doesn't matter. It's democracy if you win and tyranny of the majority if you lose, right? Fuck.

The right has never faced anything like the Sanders coin clips or the way we completely reinvented the primary season (and how we pick the nominee) when Sanders won the key race. And, if you caveman fucks ever were actually treated like they treat us, you manics would start killing people.

And, of course, the righties believe that they have a divine right to shape the world, so they have no problem ignoring the rules or hurting people to get their way.

[Mischief Maker]

But when workers try to cross the border to maximize their own gain, oh suddenly it's a crisis

If you care about the U.S. labor force as Bernie claimed to.

I like how you remove the end of that sentence and avoid those stupid stupid stooopid! details that fuck up your delicately crafted narrative.

Also while I very much like Bernie Sanders as a politician, I don't hold him in the religious awe that Republicans behold their current god-king with, and I have disagreed with Bernie in the past. But I suspect, coming from you, that quote of his is missing as much context as that quote of mine.

In related news, Trump's NFTs sold out:

Spoiler

Wouldn't YOU want to spend 100 smackerinos on a link to a url of a jpeg of that image on a blockchain? (Nevermind that I just linked to it for free).

Nobody has more contempt for Republican voters than Trump. But I guess that's part of the appeal, isn't it?

[Vanguard]

Yup, back then it became obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Jews are deliberately funneling South and Central Americans northward with the aim of gradually replacing white people

The ruling class supports stuff like immigration and temporary foreign worker programs because they're useful ways to drive wages down, of course. Strawmanning like this isn't a good way to approach disagreements.

Many people are actually trying to do overall good.

Going by the recent incident with the railroad unions, it would seem that 15/95 of senators voting stand blatantly against the interests of the working class, and by the way, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was one of the 80 voting against workers' rights. I would not count ~16% as "many" and even that is probably a highball estimate, since any senators wanting to maintain pro-labor appearances could cast a purely symbolic vote against a bill that was sure to pass anyway. It's interesting that Cortez didn't even bother to pretend to support her cult of dumbasses when doing so would have cost her exactly nothing.

Democrats, incase you don't understand how the US system works, don't really have "strong control" as they literally needed the VP to be a tie breaker in congress, had individual senators be ass-hats to put up road blocks, and don't control the Supreme Court.

Being able to pass laws while needing zero (0) republican votes is pretty damn strong, dude.

Yeah, it's kinda hard to say the left of today has gone too far when 20 years ago you were doing a show snarkily called "Politically Incorrect."

It's not the slightest bit hard to say that the left of today has gone too far in terms of supporting censorship, or enabling the ruling class to better control everyone else, or in not being able to mind their own business about any damn thing. They certainly haven't gone too far in terms of opposing the wealthy and powerful or supporting the working class, but frankly they've hardly cared since Occupy Wall Street ended.

[Air Master Burst]

It's not the slightest bit hard to say that the left of today has gone too far in terms of supporting censorship, or enabling the ruling class to better control everyone else, or in not being able to mind their own business about any damn thing. They certainly haven't gone too far in terms of opposing the wealthy and powerful or supporting the working class, but frankly they've hardly cared since Occupy Wall Street ended.

Yes, I too hate the awful leftists for all the censorship, and enabling the ruling class, and not minding their own business.

[Vanguard]

Yes, I too hate the awful leftists for all the censorship, and enabling the ruling class, and not minding their own business.

Just because the right does it doesn't mean the left doesn't do it. Don't be a directionbrain, both sides are controlled opposition for the ruling class. Whether you support the D branch of the corporate party or the R branch, you're supporting the corporate party either way.

Spoiler

It's like they'll fall for anything.

You're damn right they will.

Spoiler

[Rob]

But I suspect, coming from you, that quote of his is missing as much context as that quote of mine.

What context do you need? He supported the U.S. labor force in an America first kind of way. A few more:

“There is a reason why Wall Street and all of corporate America likes immigration reform, and it is not, in my view, that they’re staying up nights worrying about undocumented workers in this country,” he said during a Q&A with the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. “What I think they are interested in is seeing a process by which we can bring low-wage labor of all levels into this country to depress wages for Americans, and I strongly disagree with that.”

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1114 ... 19841?s=20

"If you open the borders, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it."

This is a near perfect Trump.

[XtraSmiley]

Many people are actually trying to do overall good.

Going by the recent incident with the railroad unions, it would seem that 15/95 of senators voting stand blatantly against the interests of the working class, and by the way, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was one of the 80 voting against workers' rights. I would not count ~16% as "many" and even that is probably a highball estimate, since any senators wanting to maintain pro-labor appearances could cast a purely symbolic vote against a bill that was sure to pass anyway. It's interesting that Cortez didn't even bother to pretend to support her cult of dumbasses when doing so would have cost her exactly nothing.

My god, it's almost as if governing issues are complex and don't come down to binary. I wonder why she voted that way even though she could have made a symbolic, throw away vote...

Democrats, incase you don't understand how the US system works, don't really have "strong control" as they literally needed the VP to be a tie breaker in congress, had individual senators be ass-hats to put up road blocks, and don't control the Supreme Court.

Being able to pass laws while needing zero (0) republican votes is pretty damn strong, dude.

Again, when I said you don't understand the US system works you don't have to open your mouth (keyboard) and prove me right.

Here you go, do some reading, at your comprehension level even.

https://kids-clerk.house.gov/grade-scho ... l?intID=17

Creating laws is the U.S. House of Representatives’ most important job. All laws in the United States begin as bills. Before a bill can become a law, it must be approved by the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. Senate, and the President. Let’s follow a bill’s journey to become law.

[Air Master Burst]

Just because the right does it doesn't mean the left doesn't do it. Don't be a directionbrain, both sides are controlled opposition for the ruling class. Whether you support the D branch of the corporate party or the R branch, you're supporting the corporate party either way.

You seem to be under the impression that democrats are "the left" so I can understand your confusion. I'm an actual leftist, so I don't really fuck with them. I also don't see them censoring anything, and you're going to have to be more clear about not minding their business because they aren't the ones trying to legislate my humanity away.

Your comic is adorable, but I'm afraid I can't form an opinion on it until someone tells me if it's left wing or right wing.

[orange808]

You seem to be under the impression that democrats are "the left" so I can understand your confusion.

Well said. A simple fact; an obvious fact, but virtually impossible for many to comprehend.

...........

But, these are the same people that honestly believed Joe Biden was going to hand America over to the UN. However the fuck that works. There's no provisions in the American Constitution to nullify the document and transfer power to any other means of government--foreign or domestic. Furthermore, the president does not possess any unilateral power to completely suspend the government and transfer power. That would be a coup.

Speaking of treason and coup: busting into the capital to kill everyone is some crazy Guy Fawkes shit. Once upon a time, you'd be lucky if you only went to jail for something like that. More likely, you'd get a free trip all over the country--in fucking pieces.

[BulletMagnet]

I believe they are all sub-replacement already, and I think a natural contraction in developed nations is a good thing from an environmental and quality of life POV.

If this is the case, then why are you seemingly less concerned about replicating these nations' slowing birth rates elsewhere - which would, first and foremost, involve increased education, enrichment and empowerment of poor women - than about the movements of those already born, unless you think that only certain nations' direct and immediate exposure to environmental degradation actually matters?

Strawmanning like this isn't a good way to approach disagreements.

Thing is, I'm not strawmanning. This is literally what Rob has claimed to believe. Not to mention that Native Americans totally deserved to be eradicated/subjugated by the objectively superior Europeans, among other such insights.

[Mischief Maker]

This is a near perfect Trump.

Absolutely! You should totally vote for Bernie and any candidates he endorses. It'll be exactly like Trump without all the Jeffrey Epstein baggage.

[Vanguard]

You seem to be under the impression that democrats are "the left" so I can understand your confusion. I'm an actual leftist, so I don't really fuck with them.

You can "no true scotsman" the issue as much as you like, most self-identified leftists vote for and support the Democrats. Alexandria Cortez and Ilhan Omar are nearly universally considered representatives of the American left, and both voted to outlaw union workers from striking. So the way I see it, the most coherent way to describe what's going on is that the values of the left have changed, and these days leftists are largely neoliberal social justice capitalists. The alternative is to say that the nearly-universally understood meaning of who the left is is wrong, and the "real" left is an absurdly tiny and irrelevant minority, who almost universally fall in line with the Democrats in the end anyway.

I've noticed that both the left and the right like to define themselves extremely narrowly and the opposing tribe extremely widely. Nearly any ideological impurity invalidates you from being in my tribe, but everyone who supports any opposing position or votes for the enemy party is in their tribe. The left is convinced that the ruling class is right wing and the right is convinced the ruling class are leftists. I would say the elites are not really either, but they mostly resemble economic conservatives and social liberals.

I also don't see them censoring anything, and you're going to have to be more clear about not minding their business because they aren't the ones trying to legislate my humanity away.

One example is how much support there is among liberals these days for the government and even private corporations to censor "misinformation." As if there has ever in the history of the world been a legitimate reason to give authority figures that kind of power. If the truth is really so clear-cut then you don't need censorship for your message to succeed, and if it isn't so clear then it's a disastrous mistake to allow the ruling class to simply decide what the truth ought to be.

[Air Master Burst]

You can "no true scotsman" the issue as much as you like, most self-identified leftists vote for and support the Democrats.

I'm a communist, not a democrat. I believe all private property should be abolished and workers should control the means of production.

Democrats still firmly believe in and work to prop up capitalism.

You see the difference here? Words have actual meanings for a reason.

If democrats don't do or vote for leftist shit like, I don't know, allowing unions to strike, then they aren't fucking leftists.

Subscribing to your logic would also mean there's no practical diffetence between nazis and republicans.

[Rob]

This is a near perfect Trump.

Absolutely! You should totally vote for Bernie and any candidates he endorses. It'll be exactly like Trump without all the Jeffrey Epstein baggage.

That's the thing. All of the implicitly America first pro-labor talk went out the window a while back.

[Mischief Maker]

So you're fine with this:

Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it—Jeffrey enjoys his social life.

[Rob]

I think Stephen Miller is the best thing to come out of the Trump presidency. He's apparently still up to no good, like making sure the government doesn't get away with racial discrimination.

I'm a communist, not a democrat. I believe all private property should be abolished and workers should control the means of production.

Going back to this post because I'm just curious.

I'm sure most of us here are working plebs, but I can't see a benefit in anything resembling a communist system. How do you envision your life in a communist America? What is the housing situation like in private property abolished America? What do you own or care to own? What freedoms or opportunities would you have that you don't have now?

[Sima Tuna]

My city is an absolute cesspool right now, as a result of the current policies regarding homelessness. It's a national joke. Garbage everywhere. Homeless everywhere. Tent cities all over. Graffiti and drugs and violent crime. Constant noise from homeless fighting or screaming. The city does jack shit about it. They talk a good game about helping the homeless but when it comes time to do something, they do nothing. All promises and no action. Useless fucks. They're liberals too, so it goes to show it matters not who is in power, regarding this issue.

Maybe there's a connection between being endlessly permissive (liberal approach) and this level of societal deterioration?

What do the conservative cities do about homelessness? Do you know? I do. They send them to us! They put their homeless on buses and they pay the fare to send them here! How does this solve the problem? How does arresting the homeless, beating the homeless, shuttling them to some other State, throwing them in prison and then letting them out again, how does any of this solve homelessness?!?

I don't care about conservative vs liberal. I care about solutions to this problem. The pot has been boiling over on homelessness for decades and neither party has done a damn thing about it. In a country as prosperous as America, it is our great National Shame that so many live in abject poverty and despair.

What do we do about this? The "best" we offer are a few shelters that fill to capacity almost instantly, leaving the rest of the homeless on the streets. Or maybe we give out some food. Does this take the homeless back into society? Does this help them with addiction? Does this put them on the path to rejoin the world?

When the republicans have power, they criminalize the homeless but do nothing about their numbers increasing. They do jack fucking shit to get the homeless off the streets and back into society. When the liberals have power, they talk a big game about helping the homeless but end up doing nothing.

On this issue, the parties truly are identical. As I said before, homelessness is tied in with our extreme drug problems here in the USA. But also with the realities of capitalism: that some people must always lose for this system to work. Exploited marks must always be cast aside and left with nothing, so that the top percentile can increase their wealth further. Maybe if our society had some fucking humanity, we could offer the bare minimum of life to all citizens. A small place to stay. Some basic food provided. Clean water. The offer of drug rehab. Would it really cost so much to provide this, compared to the price we pay for radar-resistant stealth bombers and other toys our bloated military-industrial complex splurges on? Or hell, even compared to the price we pay to clean up after the homeless?

It's pointless to criminalize homelessness until you offer the homeless a way to become not homeless. Businesses aren't exactly chomping at the bit to hire employees with no fixed address, no smart phone and no references.

[Air Master Burst]

I'm sure most of us here are working plebs, but I can't see a benefit in anything resembling a communist system. How do you envision your life in a communist America? What is the housing situation like in private property abolished America? What do you own or care to own? What freedoms or opportunities would you have that you don't have now?

"Private property" and "personal property" are two entirely distinct and different concepts. You can still own stuff, but a lot of people would own a bit more and a few people would own a whole lot less.

Free health care, education, housing, internet for everyone. Every worker in every business gets an equal share of everything. Some people will be lazy and not work, but who gives a shit? Between rapidly increasing automation and the drive of a majority of humans to actually want to be useful, it'll be fine. There are plenty of ways to offer motivational perks to dedicated workers in a moneyless system, so unless you're one of those "hard work and suffering BUILDS CHARACTER!" sadomasochists, it wouldn't even matter.

[emphatic]

Free health care, education, housing, internet for everyone. Every worker in every business gets an equal share of everything. Some people will be lazy and not work, but who gives a shit? Between rapidly increasing automation and the drive of a majority of humans to actually want to be useful, it'll be fine. There are plenty of ways to offer motivational perks to dedicated workers in a moneyless system, so unless you're one of those "hard work and suffering BUILDS CHARACTER!" sadomasochists, it wouldn't even matter.

Hey, maybe you'll get it right this time. History begs to differ though, but I guess "that wasn't real communism".

[Rob]

What do the conservative cities do about homelessness? Do you know? I do. They send them to us! They put their homeless on buses and they pay the fare to send them here!

I'm interested in knowing more if you have sources to share.

“Bussed Out”: How Cities Are Giving Thousands of Homeless People One-Way Bus Tickets to Leave Town

It says here that San Francisco "offered thousands of people bus tickets and thousands of people left the city", so it doesn't sound like a practice that is limited to politically conservative cities. I wouldn't be surprised if liberal cities are the points of departure for most who use the busing program.

"The majority of people who are homeless in any given city are from that city. Whenever cities do their homeless population counts they often do surveys and they found this trend is replicated across the board. It is actually a myth that is common in many cities in the west that somebody is drawn there for the services or for the weather. Most people are actually from that city."

I think the idea behind the program is that people can get to where family, friends or opportunities are. It doesn't sound like people are coerced.

Alaska is an odd case because people here actually do get banished (from villages) and end up in the city.

It's pointless to criminalize homelessness until you offer the homeless a way to become not homeless. Businesses aren't exactly chomping at the bit to hire employees with no fixed address, no smart phone and no references.

What do you mean by "criminalize homelessness"? There are crimes related to drugs, theft, trespassing, etc. that are basic standards for everyone.

You definitely have a point about businesses not wanting the risk. When people make bad decision after bad decision (and/or have bad luck) it's a red flag and life gets exponentially harder. I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to take the risk. This guy tried to do something nice and found himself on the wrong side of a machete.

The major problem here is that we can't make good decisions for other people. There might be drug rehab and job opportunities available but we can't make people utilize them.

[Air Master Burst]

Hey, maybe you'll get it right this time. History begs to differ though, but I guess "that wasn't real communism".

There have been plenty of failed governments of all kinds throughout history; but even if I take your ridiculous insinuation in good faith, it still can't possibly be worse than the late-stage capitalism that is LITERALLY DESTROYING THE PLANET.

ETA:

The major problem here is that we can't make good decisions for other people. There might be drug rehab and job opportunities available but we can't make people utilize them.

Right; but if we give them free food, shelter, and health care then they won't need to commit crimes anymore. Everyone wins!

[Sima Tuna]

The major problem here is that we can't make good decisions for other people. There might be drug rehab and job opportunities available but we can't make people utilize them.

Right; but if we give them free food, shelter, and health care then they won't need to commit crimes anymore. Everyone wins!

I mean, at least we could fucking try it instead of just saying "no" forever (conservative answer) or saying "yes" but not actually doing it (liberal answer.)

Let's try to provide enough food, shelter, water, health care and drug rehab for anyone who wants them. Let's see how many addicts out there are truly hopeless. Let's see how many homeless people genuinely want to remain homeless. Let's just try.

How much worse could it really be than what we're doing now?

BTW yes, homelessness absolutely can be criminalized and is. There are loitering laws, trespassing laws, basically you make every part of society illegal for camping/loitering. So someone is homeless, right? They can't go anywhere or be anywhere without breaking the law, because of how the law is written. They don't have any private property they can live on so they have to trespass. There are also laws against sleeping in public, urinating in public, camping in public, living out of your car etc.

I'm not saying all trespassing laws should be repealed. But what I am saying is there should always be *somewhere* these homeless people can go where it is not illegal for them to simply exist.