I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

[seiatsu]

Like many of you, I picked up TD2 and am enjoying it quite a bit. Can't believe I haven't tried this until now to be honest. Being new to it, I do have a question though;

What's the general thought on auto fire in this one? Yes or no (I assume it's not giving one too much of an advantage)? And if it's acceptable, at which rate?

[copy-paster]

Autofire is a MUST for 1P side, can't imagine playing without it. Go for 30hz for the whole game as it got high DPS and good for pointblanking.

2P side have 60hz installed by default but the rate of homing missile is slow, the solution is tap the button for a while for more missiles and it's good to search hidden blue medals.

[Jonpachi]

Stayed up way too late with this one last night! I was gonna just give it a quick look before bed and pretty soon it was 1am. So far, the game seems very much tuned around the P1 ship, and I really struggle with the P2 version to kill things quickly enough. I'll give that "tap" method mentioned above a shot.

Absolutely love the goofy VO too. I think if I were on the team I would have had a hard time being sold on hearing the same clips over and over, but they did just enough chatter to keep it lively without being too repetitive and annoying.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Sorry, if this is a dumb question, but what is 'rapid fire 15, 20, 30, etc.'

I mean, I understand 'rapid fire'. It's the numbers that are confusing me.

[BIL]

That's the autofire frequency. 15 hertz, 20 hertz, 30 hertz - basically "presses per second." The fine-tuning is important in some games, where certain autofire rates will behave oddly (Gradius III's slowdown inteferes with 30hz autofire; ImageFight IIRC can do some odd things too, owing to its 55hz native refresh rate).

It's also convenient in a lot of games to have a manual, slow auto, and fast auto setup - for precise shots, area coverage, and pointblank speedkills, respectively. 30hz tends to leave gaps in your fire, in stuff like Hishouzame, Raiden, etc.

[m.sniffles.esq]

That's the autofire frequency. 15 hertz, 20 hertz, 30 hertz - basically "presses per second."

Oh... ok. Thank you.
I usually just use the turbo on my stick, which is probably why I never noticed that before.

[Sima Tuna]

Like many of you, I picked up TD2 and am enjoying it quite a bit. Can't believe I haven't tried this until now to be honest. Being new to it, I do have a question though;

What's the general thought on auto fire in this one? Yes or no (I assume it's not giving one too much of an advantage)? And if it's acceptable, at which rate?

I always play with autofire, because life is too short for more fucking arthritis pain. I'll never consider it cheating.

I enable whatever the lowest rate is. Usually 15 if I'm given the option. I just want a smooth, even fire rate, not some kind of super shot. I've found 30hz often fucks up the shots in ways BIL already mentioned.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Autofire is very much the norm in many quality japanese game centers where you'll find shmups setup with autofire buttons wired and ready to go. It's not regarded as cheating by the shmups community as there is very little fun or interesting in having to hammer one button for 30 minutes to an hour non-stop at a high rate of speed to optimal damage.

[BIL]

Imagine this dude tapping his joystick all day while PWNing the Nihongos



Fuck no. Line 'em up and hose 'em down.

I prefer it when STGs moderate firing speed via game mechanics. EG, a fast/weak weapon that's good for fending off zako, VS a slow/strong one that's better for blowing apart boss weakpoints.

If I'm gonna tap, I'm ok with the "sweet and low" approach seen in Gunnail, where the firing cap is powerful and easily-reached via leisurely speed. No matter how bitterly intense a game's action might be, I prioritise the sense of sending commands at leisure. As soon as strenuousness comes into it, EG when milking the chubs in Darius III? I stop having a good time. It's about good times mang.

[Fingolfin]

“Yeeehawww!”

re TD2

There's so much of that fine-brush STG artistry here, the kind that goes beyond mere rote, making grappling with rugged stages and bosses feel as much of an unfolding mystery as any narrative-driven game.

Nicely put!


So many excellent and throughly engaging arcade shooters released thru the ACA Arcade library in the last year!

As always thanks to BIL, trap15, Rastan78, Jeneki, copypaster, BareKnuckleRoo and all the rest for so much by way of info/resources/tactics and keen insights!

All the excellent resources courtesy of trap15 for both Gunnail and Thunder Dragon 2.
Mucho appreciado!


Really appreciate your Halley’s Comet ST BareKnuckleRoo.


Happy Birthday to DenimDemon: hope the anniversary of your 43rd spin around the sun is a good one!

[Skyknight]

Now this is interesting...

https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/113647/

The unused sprites suggest that NMK was going to let you adjust how your fighter attacked in a similar vein to the first Raiden (and give you one-ups). At a guess...

S: Speed Up. Not sure they included something to slow down with in there, though. But given that the icon would be very noticeable (it's the only one with two different colors for the letter), they probably expected you wouldn't want to, risk of careening into a far bullet be condemned.

H: Homing missiles

L: Laser cannon

W: Wide cannon

F: Forward missiles

No sign of being able to change your bomb, though. Not sure Buster Snake and Toll Hammer differ all that much to begin with...

[Steven]

Autofire is very much the norm in many quality japanese game centers where you'll find shmups setup with autofire buttons wired and ready to go. It's not regarded as cheating by the shmups community as there is very little fun or interesting in having to hammer one button for 30 minutes to an hour non-stop at a high rate of speed to optimal damage.

Yeah, Mikado has autofire on literally every shooter they have as far as I remember. It's usually really high, like 30Hz, which is kind of annoying.

Here's a picture I took of one of their Garegga cabinets the other day, and it's a bit more involved, as it gives you a lever to choose which set of buttons is autofire and then a knob to manually change it so you don't have to smash the button and hope you get the speed you want along with an ABC button for selecting the ABC ships without having to mess it up.

https://imgur.com/a/Kr8KqT4

[Mykaizer]

Autofire is very much the norm in many quality japanese game centers where you'll find shmups setup with autofire buttons wired and ready to go. It's not regarded as cheating by the shmups community as there is very little fun or interesting in having to hammer one button for 30 minutes to an hour non-stop at a high rate of speed to optimal damage.

Curious. What's the general view with auto-fire and Metal Slug you think?

[Sima Tuna]

Do you have to mash the button for the entire game? Then autofire isn't cheating. Do you not have to mash the button for the entire game? Then it's more dubious. Is the game balanced around having no autofire, and not having autofire won't give you carpal tunnel? Then you probably don't need autofire.

I don't use autofire for Huntdown because the weapons are balanced around certain ones not having autofire, while others do. But games like Blazing Chrome, which are heavily inspired by Contra and Metal Slug, include autofire as default.

There's a section in metal slug, I think X, where a train charges you and you literally have to mash until you injure your hand in order to not fucking die. I think that shit is so lazy and I have no shame in using autofire for it.

[DenimDemon]

Downloaded it last night after beating Dread for the first time. Cool little game that Metroid thing.
Anyway the big game TD2: Damn beautiful game to look at, the main player ships have some of the prettiest design ever. Yeah like some of you have pointed out, there’s a Garegga vibe to it, on the looks department. Have never played this one before and it’s funny how a different game it is from TD 1. I love Helicopters as main ships in shooters so I kinda miss that here. Anyway game feels great so far, gonna spend some time this weekend messing with it.
Funny tough from a quick session I find it harder than Gunnail lol. Maybe I’ll change my mind once I get more use to it.

[BIL]

If not for Gun Frontier (an even clearer Garegga influence)'s own second boss reveal, I'd wonder if stage 2's flamingos were another precursor. Boss himself looks like a cross between Slayer's brassy dieselpunk detailing and Bazzcok from APB's stingray outline.



Bazzcosplay

Spoiler

(ta @ AFruitADay!, you rock dood)

Always good to see you, Fingolfin!

There's a section in metal slug, I think X, where a train charges you and you literally have to mash until you injure your hand in order to not fucking die. I think that shit is so lazy and I have no shame in using autofire for it.

Gotta save up your grenades and cash 'em in there ;3 (he said, having wasted ten in the city section like a jackass necessitating a mash 3;)

Nightmares will give me peace of mind ♫

If you do the stage right, you'll have either heavy weapons (sweet n' low EZ tap) or tons of grenades for all four trains. But yeah, it's foolishness, ultimately. As always when run/gun level designers do the "Hey kids! You like mashing down passive roadblocks, right? Here's a whole fuckin stage of that!" (see also the seventh stage of Super Contra's otherwise lovely Famicom version)

God damn though, it feel good how they launch off the tracks and break in half Looks (and FEELS) like they're being busted in two across the knee of an angry god

[Sima Tuna]

Funny tough from a quick session I find it harder than Gunnail lol. Maybe I’ll change my mind once I get more use to it.

I think it's way easier. I can't even clear the first fucking level in Gunnail on one credit (stop laughing, you fffucks!). But I no-missed (not no bomb) the first level in TD2 fairly quickly. If you use the bombs when you need them, TD2 will give you more bombs.

A lot of people have said the game feels like Garegga. I don't know because I haven't played that game yet. But if Garegga is like TD2, then I'll probably adore it as well. TD2 just has this super fun and tight feeling. The ship speed, your ship's spread, the bullet patterns, power-up drops etc are all just right.

[Herr Schatten]

TD2 sure is great. I wonder why there aren't more games that mix caravan style waves with fixed stage enemies like that. But man, those strobe-like flashing bullets confuse the hell out of me. I really want to like the 2P ship, and in theory it should be able to shred through the stages, but somehow I don't get anywhere with it.

Btw, what does that game speed option do? I don't notice any difference.

[copy-paster]

I wonder why there aren't more games that mix caravan style waves with fixed stage enemies like that.

Macross II by NMK is TD2 with 2-minute time limit, and it tracks bomb for score but they're worth 10k each not a huge problem unless you're going for WR. Sadly Macross games will never get ACA treatment because licensing BS.

[BIL]

Btw, what does that game speed option do? I don't notice any difference.

Very slightly drops the framerate to sub-60hz, replicating the PCB's speed; you can notice a bit of chop in scrolling objects, that goes away if the game is left at 60hz.

I always switch to PCB speed when given the opportunity, mostly for placebo reasons, haha. Despite my hating chop with a vengeance, it's all but invisible while actually playing.

[seiatsu]

But man, those strobe-like flashing bullets confuse the hell out of me.

This resonates so much. I find myself flying directly into them rather than away from them despite knowing I'm about to do so.


Also, the letters are bad for those of us with restart syndrome. While I've gotten more consistent with shooting them all, if I miss, it's a definite restart before the stage has truly even begun

[Udderdude]

But man, those strobe-like flashing bullets confuse the hell out of me.

I really hate those things, too.

[Lethe]

A lot of people have said the game feels like Garegga. I don't know because I haven't played that game yet. But if Garegga is like TD2, then I'll probably adore it as well. TD2 just has this super fun and tight feeling. The ship speed, your ship's spread, the bullet patterns, power-up drops etc are all just right.

Garegga and TD2 are about as far apart on the gameplay spectrum as two visually similar games can be, so don't go in with that expectation.

I honestly have no idea how people manage with the P2 ship. That main shot is an utter peashooter while P1 is a god of destruction. The two ships being distinctive is particularly important in a game like this though, because the differences in routing needed to score are immediately pulled into sharp focus by the mechanics. A while ago I stumbled on an ancient remark by Herr Schatten about how Dangun Feveron seems to have more meaningless filler waves than TD2 and I think that's squarely down to the ship balance (or lack thereof). If you were forced to choose between speed and power like in TD2, those filler waves wouldn't feel so much like filler.

Edit: I'd been playing with 30hz autofire instead of the default shot. That's why P2 felt so shit.

[DenimDemon]

Well after the games initial hook with its visual design….yeah I’m not feeling it. Which is kinda surprising…I’m so easy to please. I guess I’m not in the mood right now to dive into a new shmup. Need to keep on hold I guess. It’s definitely promising.
Have saying that I’m really really close to 1cc Gunnail and kinda sucks having shooters has favourite genre and struggling so much with some relatively easy 1cc releases. I don’t care what people say, Gunnail 1 cc seems super doable. A lot of bombs, extended and quick stages. As for that, TD2 stages are less long that on the first game? They do seem to me. They feel quick, I like that.

Loaded up Cybernator last night. Forgot how damn special of a shooter it is. Half shooter half mecha beat um up. Great game. ACA is a bliss, I know we can easily emulate most of this releases but being able to play this arcade treasures on a current console is a dream come true. Oh and this is the coolest thread on the internet right now.

[BIL]

Edit: I'd been playing with 30hz autofire instead of the default shot. That's why P2 felt so shit.

Goddamn, I was too! Gave P2 a quick spin on release day, then dived into P1. Good catch, I went away thinking "trap wasn't kidding about P2 being tougher." I can't recall an STG where one ship has inbuilt autofire, offhand. I'm sure one of the Sonic Wings did, at some point, but they have just about everything.

2P still feels like the trickier/"Grandmaster Challenge" ship to use, due to it lacking a pointblank speedkill. For the first half of the game it's an even trade, since it can do 80% of P1's 30hz speedkills from safe distance at the bottom of the screen. st2's heavy tank trio is a good example, where a bottom-hugging P1 will get biblically deluged and likely bomb, while P2 will have a couple trivial dodges. OTOH, P2 can't pre-empt those spreads without bombing, and these instances naturally increase exponentially over the game's course.

A good reflection of Kyuukyoku/Raiden tradition, where players tend to reserve Laser for hard targets where Vulcan pointblank isn't ideal. Giving 2P the Homing rather than Straight missiles was another smart nod.

I imagine the difference is lessened sans autofire, which almost makes me wish P1 had gone with factory auto too. Still, a compelling pairing for sure.

---

Aww jeez. Like a jackass, I put the controller down, came back ten minutes later to give P2 st3 a spin, and promptly started using 30hz.

"Damn, these letters aren't easy to catch without bombing! I think I figured 'em out though! Wait. Fuck!"

Immediately went and cleared out my button settings (already using my alt. PSN account for EZ P1+P2 save practice for those who might not know, each account will have its own config and save data, handy with ACA's single slot)

---

The Bomb capacity bonus triggering at the max, rather than beyond it is a tiny, miraculous bit of design genius. Man I love it. The mechanic usually bums me out - I like NB play for longevity purposes (more cushion later, when shit well and truly hits the fan), but I don't like being brickwalled off of the big bangs. TD2 lets you enjoy regular, well-placed nuclear massacres and their i-frames without feeling penalised. "Surfing" cap bonuses wreathed with invincible fire, as Nifty described, feels almost Psyvariar LVLUP-esque.

Stage 6's opening double 50k bonus is a good place to SWING THE JUDGMENT HAMMER those little bastards can be slippery!



Pleasantly surprised to blow away HIDE-KAZ in the credits, but I shoulda known he'd contributed, with that smouldering guttural bass opposite Namiki's sublimely bittersweet sustains. ala Vapor Trail (Theme Of/BLOODY ROAD), when your main themes are this damn good, a short tracklist don't matter.

I like how the game lets you shoot the letters in the stage intros.

I know right, it's like an ultraviolent Sesame Street. Profitable, too!

I used to associate the "On Standby" post-coin sequence with Tamayo's Ray* soundtracks (particularly Raystorm's stunning "Origin"), but after TD1, Black Heart, Hachamecha, Gunnail and now TD2 all sporting boutique examples, I consider it more of an NMK calling card. I really like that sense of "Gentlemen, start your engines" largesse.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Really appreciate your Halley’s Comet ST BareKnuckleRoo.

Thank you for the kind words, I hope it's helpful.

Edit: I'd been playing with 30hz autofire instead of the default shot. That's why P2 felt so shit.

Goddamn, I was too!

I accidentally did the same thing with Akuu Gallet once. Coulda sworn I'd tried all the weapons both ways, but apparently forgot to do so with the green one that has built-in autofire (unlike the other three). ;w; It trips you up when games deliberately enforce button mashing on some, but not all weapons.

[seiatsu]

I was watching that TD2 superplay by RS with all the notes for the run shown simultaneously. Wish I knew enough Japanese to translate that as there is probably some decent info to be had.

I don't know what it is about this game...I guess it's just designed and fine tuned really well. It's seemingly simple on the surface but the more I play, the more in depth it seems to get despite it's simplicity.

[Sima Tuna]

I finally got the XEXEX hamster port. My impressions:

-Japanese version of the game: Hey this is really cool. These weapons are great and the levels make sense.
-Euro version: Holy shit this is awful. No weapons and the entire screen is full of enemy and bullet spam.
-US version: Is there a single pixel of the screen that isn't covered by an enemy hitbox? Removing checkpoints isn't an excuse to be assholes.

So I will be playing the JPN version, and not any of the others. Japanese version is really good though. Feels like a top quality Salamander game. Despite the little mini-me Force weapon, the game doesn't play like R-Type. Levels don't have the same slow, puzzle-heavy design and enemy bullets tend to shotgun-spread out in waves like you see in Gradius games. Visually, XEXEX is probably the best-looking horizontal shmup hamster has ported so far.

So... I liked XEXEX, and I could have stopped there and thought "hey, this is pretty cool." But then I figured I'd check out Cybattler too. Bruh. I'm awful at this game, but I will be at least credit feeding to the end... Because Cybattler is amazing. Did Jaleco really make this? This has to be their best game, if so. Shock Troopers + Soldier Blade = <3 That first level is an instant classic. The 2nd level in the desert is dope AF too.

Spoiler

I ran caravan quickly (because the time limit on caravan lasts until the point where I naturally tend to die anyway, lololol) and managed to get 40th on the switch scoreboards, so maybe that means scoring is pretty straightforward. I usually can't place on the leaderboards.

[DazTM]

Looks like Dangerous Seed is the latest release. Keep the shmups coming Hamster. Man, I wish it would release a physical compilation.

[Jeneki]

I will tell you about enjoying Dangerous Seed, once my cat stops trying to kill the bugs for me.

You know an arcade game isn't going to screw around when it gives you so much generosity with hits: 3-4 hits per ship (with frequent energy refills) and 3 ships to work with. The in-game manual says that after stage 4, your remaining extends will merge into one mega-ship. Sounds awesome.