OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Xyga]

Until then, would that work ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVI-D-Stereo-Au ... io+to+hdmi
Cheap, casing-less, not using external power.

That doesn't actually do anything, it's just an HDMI cable and a 3.5mm audio cable bundled into a single sheath.

Yeah but that doesn't answer my question. Directly to my TV or monitor's HDMI: would that cable work ?
And if not what would ?

All of us who ordered the OSSC knew we would have to deal with this problem, but for those (I predict many) who will want audio over HDMI it's going to become crucial knowledge soon.
We need examples of actual products, confirmations, because it's ranging from cheap cables to converters around 50 bucks or more and requiring external power, kind of not the kind of thing I'd buy blindly after spending nearly 200 you know.

Only suggesting to buy active speakers, using a PC to mix sound, or wait for an addon people would have to solder themselves won't do.

[marqs]

EDIT: Actually, maybe you'd need three jumpers on headers to replicate lifting those IC pins?

Yeah, I've considered adding easier access for those 3 pins. Just three 0 ohm resistors connecting the signals to GND by default (to prevent floating inputs), but which can be easily desoldered if needed.

[Xyga]

Here's another one but I'm not sure again: http://www.clicktronic.com/en/products/ ... el_casual/

EDIT; ok that probably wouldn't, now there's that monoprice here that should and it's much cheaper than everything else I've seen so far;
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8124
But of course it's reserved to USA buyers, all similar devices in Europe are at least 60€

[Guspaz]

No, again, it's just an HDMI cable and an audio cable bundled together. It's the same as running separate audio and video cables, it doesn't do anything to get audio in the HDMI connection.

[borti4938]

Here's an idea: a future board revision of the OSSC could have some pin headers for the audio module.

Actually I do like the idea. But it will be up to marqs if he wants to realize that. Normally, these pins are connected to ground. My idea would be to use some kind of pre-wired jumpers where someone can cut the connection to ground if he wants to install the audio board. I attached a picture from the SNES (picture taken from retroRGB.com), where it can be seen what I meant.



But at least, once marqs has 'finallized' the board, I will move the audio capture from the SCART connector to the 3.5mm jack (as previously suggested to by marqs a few month ago). It should be more easy to desolder the small jack than the big SCART connector.

EDIT: I overread this completely:

EDIT: Actually, maybe you'd need three jumpers on headers to replicate lifting those IC pins?

Yeah, I've considered adding easier access for those 3 pins. Just three 0 ohm resistors connecting the signals to GND by default (to prevent floating inputs), but which can be easily desoldered if needed.

Great Just read my suggestion as an alternative to the resistor-solution. However, this makes the audio board to a board which can be easily installed

[ZellSF]

We need examples of actual products, confirmations, because it's ranging from cheap cables to converters around 50 bucks or more and requiring external power, kind of not the kind of thing I'd buy blindly after spending nearly 200 you know.

As already mentioned (just to confirm) you're going to need a active converter and it's probably going to require external power.

It's likely going to be cheaper to buy some cheap external speakers (less convenient though, having to change cables between OSSC and TV output). Plus someone else might have a use for those if you ever decide to get a decent audio setup.

but for those (I predict many) who will want audio over HDMI it's going to become crucial knowledge soon.

Why do you think there will be many? To care about the OSSC you're likely obsessive about image quality, input lag or both. If you care that much in those areas, chances are you're not spending 0$ on your audio budget.

Then you have to have no audio equipment available (lots of people can get old shit from friends and family) and no HDMI connector with an analog sound input available on your TV.

You also have to have no modding skills (which usually doesn't rule out many people, but on this forum it will be a few).

[BuckoA51]

No, again, it's just an HDMI cable and an audio cable bundled together. It's the same as running separate audio and video cables, it doesn't do anything to get audio in the HDMI connection.

Exactly right, though for most folks that's all that's needed and makes that an elegant solution without adding much cable bulk.

We need examples of actual products

I already reviewed the Lindy unit, sadly it sucks. Right now I have no budget for reviewing other things but I will once OSSCs start shipping.

Remember the VGA and Component inputs don't have audio anyway, so even if you do the audio mod on OSSC, somewhere in your chain you're going to need to route analogue audio to your receiver if you use component or VGA sources.

[Unseen]

My TV set doesn't pass multichannel audio to ARC, though (not really an issue with retro consoles, but a hinderance generally).

That's not much of a surprise - ARC is basically SPDIF over a repurposed line of the HDMI cable, limited to 48kHz sample rate maximum. Compressed audio is allowed, so basic Dolby Digital/AC3 and DTS should work, but if the source sends multichannel PCM it is unlikely that the TV converts that to AC3 or DTS just for ARC.

[Mantrox]

Where's the beef, marq?

[pyrotek85]

Remember the VGA and Component inputs don't have audio anyway, so even if you do the audio mod on OSSC, somewhere in your chain you're going to need to route analogue audio to your receiver if you use component or VGA sources.

Huh, seems I overlooked something. For some reason I was under the impression that the audio mod included inputs as well, guess I'm just used to the way the XRGB Mini does things. I'll have to rethink how I'd connect this then if I still want to get one.

[Xyga]

Why do you think there will be many? To care about the OSSC you're likely obsessive about image quality, input lag or both. If you care that much in those areas, chances are you're not spending 0$ on your audio budget.

Then you have to have no audio equipment available (lots of people can get old shit from friends and family) and no HDMI connector with an analog sound input available on your TV.

You also have to have no modding skills (which usually doesn't rule out many people, but on this forum it will be a few).

- I no longer have any decent audio equipment, only portable/headphones (been living in apartments for a long time, and even if that's going to change soon I'm typically satisfied with integerated speakers anyway)
- Displays and in particular TVs with a separate audio input that goes along with HDMI are not a thing anymore, you have to have a flat panel from before or around 2010 or 2011 if pushing for the very last models, to see that kind of stuff. HDMI is the primary audio input on most TVs today.
- I'm extremely bad at soldering because of eyesight issues I can't compensate for at such close range, and I lack decent tools anyway, so can only do very rough stuff, otherwise I would have bought the DIY kit. Most people can't even do the rough stuff.
- I have external scalers I could use to pass audio but I need some decently transportable solution for this summer, and my DVDO's definitely aren't.
- More bulk and more power bricks are not my idea of convenience.
- Over the past months I've been asked several times on french forums about what to do to get audio on HDMI with the OSSC, trust me people are ready to make some effort but that doesn't include spending significantly more or needing a full secondary system on side for audio, several are in a situation where they'll need audio on HDMI and some told me they'd wait for a reliable solution or a new version of the OSSC with audio.
- You'd be wrong to think people in general can face actual technical challenges, small ones maybe, but that one is not. The OSSC is not limited to nerds who already have some equipment and some skills, nor to these very forums you know, I believe I've read there are already several hundred in queue.

But talking only for my case, even though I knew I'd need a solution for audio over HDMI, the scarcity of actual solutions and significant cost of those completely slipped past me. I've switched my attention to that matter now again since I'm about to receive the OSSC and came to realize it's not trivial at all.

If anyone ever comes across a cheaper solution, please let us know !
There must be something (wishful).

@BuckoA51: To get audio in all cases I could just buy a cheap DVI>VGA adapter, and use my AA 9060A VGA>Component transcoder, but it's too bad that I have to use two additional devices to convert the video signal, and two more power plugs, just to get sound (yeah the DVI>VGA step requires power too).

[BuckoA51]

There's this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Premium-DVI-H ... 1449845049

You could probably even power that from the same PSU as the OSSC with a simple splitter cable.

The Startech ones seem to be re-badged and look exactly the same as the Lindy ones, so that's not really an option.

I will as I said before look into providing the audio upgrade board as a fitting service too.

[Guspaz]

But at least, once marqs has 'finallized' the board, I will move the audio capture from the SCART connector to the 3.5mm jack (as previously suggested to by marqs a few month ago). It should be more easy to desolder the small jack than the big SCART connector.

Why not both? What you propose would prevent the audio mod from working with any existing RGB SCART cables connected directly to a console, since those don't normally have separate audio breakouts. In my case, none of my SCART cables have audio breakouts because they're just going to get hooked up to a SCART-to-BNC cable next, and the extra audio wires would be useless.

[BuckoA51]

I think you misunderstand, the audio is captured at output from the 3.5mm jack, not input.

[cleeg]

I like to run all audio into my TV from the upscaler, from there to my hifi via optical cable. I just find it the most convenient that way. Also, my TV lets me mix HDMI video with analogue audio.

[BuckoA51]

Unless you have a really old hifi system that doesn't support things like Dolby Digital etc, you're usually better off the other way around.

[pyrotek85]

I like to run all audio into my TV from the upscaler, from there to my hifi via optical cable. I just find it the most convenient that way. Also, my TV lets me mix HDMI video with analogue audio.

That's similar to what I'm doing, audio goes in to the TV with HDMI, but then it outputs from there to my headphone amp. I'm not using my PC monitor's horrible speakers lol. But this lets me integrate all consoles new and old, here I think I'd have to get an audio mixer or something to combine the various audio inputs and get them back into HDMI eventually, before they'd reach the HDMI switch.

[ZellSF]

There's this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Premium-DVI-H ... 1449845049

You could probably even power that from the same PSU as the OSSC with a simple splitter cable.

The Startech ones seem to be re-badged and look exactly the same as the Lindy ones, so that's not really an option.

I will as I said before look into providing the audio upgrade board as a fitting service too.

I think he wanted something that's cheaper than 50$. I'm sure the parts in theory could be available for less, but I don't think anyone is interested in mass manufacturing and selling it for less than 50$.

- Displays and in particular TVs with a separate audio input that goes along with HDMI are not a thing anymore, you have to have a flat panel from before or around 2010 or 2011 if pushing for the very last models, to see that kind of stuff. HDMI is the primary audio input on most TVs today.

Uh... Most TVs in use today are not today's models. Most people don't replace their TV often. It's a valid approach for a lot of users. Also didn't you say the same thing last year, where the first models I checked had that option? You definitely don't have to go all the way back to 2011 to find that.

[BuckoA51]

Hmm, I thought that was priced pretty reasonably. Regardless, I know this is a problem for some, but I don't think Marqs can be expected to design the OSSC to perfectly integrate into every possible setup without significantly increasing the cost.

[Xyga]

@BuckoA51: No way I'm spending over 50~60€ for some injecter/embedder now, guess I'll go for 10 bucks USB powered speakers despite the bulk inconvenience, unless I find something better.
If I'd need to power those from a single AC adapter (along with the OSSC I mean), guess it would have to have a bit more juice than the basic USB specs (which is 5V 1A iirc?)

@ZellSF: you're definitely wrong, people renew their TVs more often than ever in history, you can't rely on a feature that's 1. neither a common thing of today nor the future save maybe for a few exceptions 2. definitely going extinct.
And what are those models still featuring that input anyway ?, How much do they cost ?, Are these even close to be decent TVs for gaming ? (a rare thing), Are you going to tell people to change their TV now after they've bought the OSSC ? That's what I call not valid.
And you can't leave this at that because it's a dead-end on the sound side for all those who do not have that option anyway.
It's got to be either a more affordable injecter that's known to work, a board mod/module, or external speakers/audio system indeed (most affordable if not exactly convenient solution so far).

EDIT: pasting that monoprice one again: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8124
It's half the price ($36/32€) of any other available option in Europe as far as I know, so it's not that more affordable ones don't exist, but we'd have to find a good similarly-priced product and source.

[Das Muel]

@BuckoA51: No way I'm spending over 50~60€ for some injecter/embedder now, guess I'll go for 10 bucks USB powered speakers despite the bulk inconvenience, unless I find something better.
If I'd need to power those from a single AC adapter (along with the OSSC I mean), guess it would have to have a bit more juice than the basic USB specs (which is 5V 1A iirc?)

@ZellSF: you're definitely wrong, people renew their TVs more often than ever in history, you can't rely on a feature that's 1. neither a common thing of today nor the future save maybe for a few exceptions 2. definitely going extinct.
And what are those models still featuring that input anyway ?, How much do they cost ?, Are these even close to be decent TVs for gaming ? (a rare thing), Are you going to tell people to change their TV now after they've bought the OSSC ? That's what I call not valid.
And you can't leave this at that because it's a dead-end on the sound side for all those who do not have that option anyway.
It's got to be either a more affordable injecter that's known to work, a board mod/module, or external speakers/audio system indeed (most affordable if not exactly convenient solution so far).

My 2014 Panasonic LED has that feature, as does my (admittedly older) 2009 Panasonic plasma. A 2012 Sony LED I used to own also had it. Not an issue for me as I'm running the output directly into PC speakers/studio monitors, which is exactly what I do currently with my XRGB2.

[Xyga]

Well you don't have a problem, good.
My Sony is from 2013 and one of the best TVs for gaming ever, but it doesn't feature separate HDMI audio input.

The best gaming TVs are the Sony and Samsung, add Vizio for the US. Well AFAIK in recent years none of those have featured that input (haven't checked all models but several I have didn't)

I'll go for cheap small external speakers anyway, some powered by 5V because that will save me the trouble of having to plug yet another AC (I have way too many already and that's a real concern)

[Das Muel]

My point is that you have a problem, whereas most users don't - the sets I've referred to are all very common, relatively recent consumer sets. Anyone committed enough to buy one of these things is likely to have the nous to get around this 'issue' one way or another.

[Guspaz]

I think you misunderstand, the audio is captured at output from the 3.5mm jack, not input.

That makes sense, although wouldn't you then have the opposite problem (systems connected via component have no way to hit the audio ADC)? Or in that case, it seems like there wouldn't be any reason you couldn't use the 3.5mm jack as an input anyhow, since AFAIK the OSSC doesn't actually do anything to the audio apart from run the traces to the SCART connector, so I'd imagine you should be able to plug something into the 3.5mm and have it capture that.

[Xyga]

My point is that you have a problem, whereas most users don't - the sets I've referred to are all very common, relatively recent consumer sets.

Well I diverge here, strongly, whatever.

[borti4938]

I think you misunderstand, the audio is captured at output from the 3.5mm jack, not input.

That makes sense, although wouldn't you then have the opposite problem (systems connected via component have no way to hit the audio ADC)? Or in that case, it seems like there wouldn't be any reason you couldn't use the 3.5mm jack as an input anyhow, since AFAIK the OSSC doesn't actually do anything to the audio apart from run the traces to the SCART connector, so I'd imagine you should be able to plug something into the 3.5mm and have it capture that.

That's right
It doesn't matter, where you connect the Audio-PCB. The SCART connector and the 3.5mm jack are just connected by traces for left and right channel. So, you will get audio from SCART input anyway even if the audio board is soldered to the 3.5mm jack.
Also the other way around: if you use component and instert audio over the 3.5mm jack to the OSSC (no SCART plug inserted, please), you will get the audio no matter whether the audio board is directly connected to the SCART or the 3.5mm jack.
For that reason I also add a menu-item where someone can swap L/R channel as the audio channels at the 3.5mm jack are swapped (OSSC DVI/DIY-v1.3).

[BuckoA51]

EDIT: pasting that monoprice one again: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8124
It's half the price ($36/32€) of any other available option in Europe as far as I know, so it's not that more affordable ones don't exist, but we'd have to find a good similarly-priced product and source.

It looks exactly like the naff Lindy one I reviewed, seems likely it's just another re-badge.

[Xyga]

EDIT: pasting that monoprice one again: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8124
It's half the price ($36/32€) of any other available option in Europe as far as I know, so it's not that more affordable ones don't exist, but we'd have to find a good similarly-priced product and source.

It looks exactly like the naff Lindy one I reviewed, seems likely it's just another re-badge.

Yup but who knows if it's working the same or not ? It's never 100% certain, would be nice if one US OSSC owners would try one, it'll be quite useful information for other future owners over there at least.

[BuckoA51]

Oh yeah absolutely, if you or anyone else does get that one though make sure you can return it.

[BuckoA51]

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