OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Das Muel wrote:When are Paypal lifting that receiving limit, Marqs?
I'd assume their customer service can verify the required documents in a reasonable time, considering they're taking 3.5% margin out of each incoming payment. Then again, web is full of horror storires how Paypal et al. have hampered similar projects, especially those which have taken pre-orders early on.
traal wrote:5V 1A means OSSC could be made to run off an ordinary USB phone or tablet charger. That would be one less thing to buy...
Those will work if is a suitable barrel jack adapter is available.
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akumajo
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by akumajo »

I wonder if XRGB-Mini mini-usb port has enough juice for OSSC ?
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Das Muel
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Das Muel »

I've had problems with them myself - I don't trust those Paypal asshats as far as I could throw them. Can I switch to a direct bank transfer?
I am the geezer from the Retro Muel Channel:
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BuckoA51
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Tested OSSC with a 4k LG TV on the weekend. Line triple worked and looked great, line double looked.. pretty decent actually. Seems not all 4k TVs scale 480p really badly.

Edit - Yep, was 4k, model number 40UB800V-ZA
Last edited by BuckoA51 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mantrox
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Mantrox »

Damn, i wish folks took more pictures and some video of the OSSC doing it's work, all this talk with nothing to look at is driving me mad :lol:
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Xyga
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xyga »

Mantrox wrote:Damn, i wish folks took more pictures and some video of the OSSC doing it's work, all this talk with nothing to look at is driving me mad :lol:
One issue I guess is that today most people only have crappy smartphone cameras. I do, and shooting/recording anything with near-decent quality is almost impossible with those. :?
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Mantrox
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Mantrox »

Sometimes the blurriness makes way for even more excitement *double brow thrust* :D
Fudoh's gone to NYC, probably left his camera in Germany, that klutz :P
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BuckoA51
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Yeah sorry I only had my phone and I didn't want to impose.
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tacoguy64
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by tacoguy64 »

Sorry for the noob question but is there any information on price for the OSSC? I'm kinda curious of picking one up myself but I can't find any order info.
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blizzz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by blizzz »

Mantrox wrote:Damn, i wish folks took more pictures and some video of the OSSC doing it's work, all this talk with nothing to look at is driving me mad :lol:
Send me one and I'll take pictures :D I decided to cancel my pre-order to wait a bit for a version with audio, since the DIY guys already have audio on their devices. On the plus side that means number 51 on the list got his device earlier.
tacoguy64 wrote:Sorry for the noob question but is there any information on price for the OSSC? I'm kinda curious of picking one up myself but I can't find any order info.
The pre-order price for an assembled unit incl remote control and shipping within EU was 199€.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by pyrotek85 »

blizzz wrote:I decided to cancel my pre-order to wait a bit for a version with audio, since the DIY guys already have audio on their devices.
Maybe I missed it, but did they announce that they'll be making a version with audio? That would simplify things a bit for me, once less device in the mix.
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blizzz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by blizzz »

No official version with audio because of the licensing fees. But there is a working addon board for the DIY version that adds audio.
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RGB32E
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RGB32E »

BuckoA51 wrote:Tested OSSC with a 4k LG TV on the weekend. Line triple worked and looked great, line double looked.. pretty decent actually. Seems not all 4k TVs scale 480p really badly.
One of the 2016 OLED models? hdtvtest claims the flagship G6 clocks in at 34 ms! This is better than the ~50ms found on 2015 models. You notice any chroma sub-sampling artifacts with the upscaled OSSC output?
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BuckoA51
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

One of the 2016 OLED models? hdtvtest claims the flagship G6 clocks in at 34 ms! This is better than the ~50ms found on 2015 models. You notice any chroma sub-sampling artifacts with the upscaled OSSC output?
It was a 40UB800V-ZA. I didn't have time for really close scrutiny I'm afraid, but it certainly didn't look as bad as some of the shots that have been posted around here.
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borti4938

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by borti4938 »

pyrotek85 wrote:
blizzz wrote:I decided to cancel my pre-order to wait a bit for a version with audio, since the DIY guys already have audio on their devices.
Maybe I missed it, but did they announce that they'll be making a version with audio? That would simplify things a bit for me, once less device in the mix.
Well, I have design a DIY-solution for that. Published here a few minutes ago ;)
https://github.com/borti4938/ossc/tree/diy-audio
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/rmFBAKyo
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

blizzz wrote:
tacoguy64 wrote:Sorry for the noob question but is there any information on price for the OSSC? I'm kinda curious of picking one up myself but I can't find any order info.
The pre-order price for an assembled unit incl remote control and shipping within EU was 199€.
Hopefully the price can be maintained (or even slightly lowered) with future orders. Bigger batches mean smaller unit cost, and going through Videogameperfection.com should make payment process more hassle-free, plus shipping from UK is also cheaper (postage proces are horrible here in Finland).
blizzz wrote:No official version with audio because of the licensing fees. But there is a working addon board for the DIY version that adds audio.
The same addon should be compatible with pre-assembled boards too. The only relevant difference is that SCART connector is 1mm closer to component connector, but I guess that the addon board should still fit. I'll move the connector back on the same place on future pre-assembled boards since there's still enough space between it and 3.5mm audio jack.
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pyrotek85
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by pyrotek85 »

borti4938 wrote:
pyrotek85 wrote:
blizzz wrote:I decided to cancel my pre-order to wait a bit for a version with audio, since the DIY guys already have audio on their devices.
Maybe I missed it, but did they announce that they'll be making a version with audio? That would simplify things a bit for me, once less device in the mix.
Well, I have design a DIY-solution for that. Published here a few minutes ago ;)
https://github.com/borti4938/ossc/tree/diy-audio
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/rmFBAKyo

Thanks, but that's probably beyond my skill level lol.
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BuckoA51
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

I will look into providing installation services for the audio board once things are up and running. I know it's a faff buying the unit then an installation/upgrade for it but at least we never have to worry about the HDMI people cracking down on us (again, probably being way over cautious about this I know, but still).
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Guspaz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

Hmm, maybe those selling the OSSC could sell them with the audio mod pre-installed.

Here's an idea: a future board revision of the OSSC could have some pin headers for the audio module. That way, Marqs doesn't need to worry about licensing at all, and somebody can make a version of the audio mod board that has some pin sockets on it so that the customer can literally just plug it in. This way, the audio mod can be easily performed by customers (or vendors) without needing to do any delicate soldering or desoldering.
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BuckoA51
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Pre-installed won't be an option, but I'll aim to give people the option to buy an audio upgrade at the same time, so basically it's all in the wording :)
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BazookaBen »

I think Marqs should leave any HDMI audio integration out, to make everybody buy some proper speakers for their old-school games setups! Good TV + bad speakers is just as bad as good speakers + bad TV.
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pyrotek85
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by pyrotek85 »

BuckoA51 wrote:I will look into providing installation services for the audio board once things are up and running. I know it's a faff buying the unit then an installation/upgrade for it but at least we never have to worry about the HDMI people cracking down on us (again, probably being way over cautious about this I know, but still).
Yeah I'd be interested in that. Don't blame you guys for doing it that way since I know the HDMI licensing is robbery.
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Guspaz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

BazookaBen wrote:I think Marqs should leave any HDMI audio integration out, to make everybody buy some proper speakers for their old-school games setups! Good TV + bad speakers is just as bad as good speakers + bad TV.
What does HDMI audio have to do with using proper speakers? Home theatre systems typically pull audio from HDMI.
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BazookaBen
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BazookaBen »

Guspaz wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:I think Marqs should leave any HDMI audio integration out, to make everybody buy some proper speakers for their old-school games setups! Good TV + bad speakers is just as bad as good speakers + bad TV.
What does HDMI audio have to do with using proper speakers? Home theatre systems typically pull audio from HDMI.
You could run the audio directly to the receiver from the console, cuts down on noise by avoiding analog to digital conversions. I don't think there are many receivers that lack stereo RCA jacks.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xyga »

Until then, would that work ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVI-D-Stereo-Au ... io+to+hdmi
Cheap, casing-less, not using external power.
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Guspaz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

BazookaBen wrote:You could run the audio directly to the receiver from the console
So instead of converting the audio signal to digital and then running the digital signal through a 40 foot HDMI cable to my AV receiver, you want me to take the analog audio signal and run *that* through an extra set of 40 foot RCA cables to the AV receiver?
BazookaBen wrote:, cuts down on noise by avoiding analog to digital conversions.
No, it doesn't. Your AV receiver works in the digital space, and will convert that analog signal to digital. It will add more noise running the analog signal from the retro console to the AV receiver than converting it to digital as soon as possible.
BazookaBen wrote:I don't think there are many receivers that lack stereo RCA jacks.
Even receivers that have stereo RCA jacks don't necessarily support using analog audio with an HDMI video source. Tripling the number of required cables (meaning an extra 80 feet of cabling in my case) isn't a good solution. If the OSSC doesn't do the audio for me, I would use an HDMI audio injector to do it for me, which adds a lot more mess and complexity to the setup. If you don't want to use a potential audio mod or add-on, that's fine, but your claims that everybody else should suffer because you're an audio purist is bullshit.
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

I don't want to critize HDMI audio too much, but one limitation is that HDMI signal cannot just be easily split up (video->TV, audio->amp), especially if there's HDCP involved. I wouldn't personally want to run HDMI via any AV receiver to TV, since the signal would need to be processed in between, and the receiver could screw up many things (add latency, modify EDID/Infoframe data etc.). New TVs fortunately have started including ARC (audio return channel), which should be somewhat better solution (at least video won't be screwed up). My TV set doesn't pass multichannel audio to ARC, though (not really an issue with retro consoles, but a hinderance generally).
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Guspaz
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

Xyga wrote:Until then, would that work ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVI-D-Stereo-Au ... io+to+hdmi
Cheap, casing-less, not using external power.
That doesn't actually do anything, it's just an HDMI cable and a 3.5mm audio cable bundled into a single sheath.
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BazookaBen
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BazookaBen »

Guspaz wrote:No, it doesn't. Your AV receiver works in the digital space, and will convert that analog signal to digital.
Now that you mention it, there is quite a lack of documentation related to how much processing receivers do to straight analog signals.

I guess it's good I'm just playing it safe and using a sharp receiver from 1985 right now.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

marqs wrote:I don't want to critize HDMI audio too much, but one limitation is that HDMI signal cannot just be easily split up (video->TV, audio->amp), especially if there's HDCP involved. I wouldn't personally want to run HDMI via any AV receiver to TV, since the signal would need to be processed in between, and the receiver could screw up many things (add latency, modify EDID/Infoframe data etc.). New TVs fortunately have started including ARC (audio return channel), which should be somewhat better solution (at least video won't be screwed up). My TV set doesn't pass multichannel audio to ARC, though (not really an issue with retro consoles, but a hinderance generally).
Typically the setup you suggest is more found in lower-end solutions like soundbars, home theatre AV receivers will typically have the video source connected to them, pull the audio off it, and then pass the HDMI over to the display, and they all support HDCP. They do typically modify the EDID to indicate what audio they support, but don't necessarily add any lag. Mine doesn't support any sort of video manipulation at all (not even an on-screen menu).

Basically, having audio over the HDMI enables a bunch of scenarios, which probably cover the vast majority of people, who are just using their TV's built-in speakers, or hooked a sound-bar up to the TV via SPDIF, or have a home theatre receiver that sits between the source and the display.

I totally understand your reluctance to include built-in support for HDMI audio due to licensing concerns, but it seems that you could safely circumvent the problem by simply providing a physical interface for an optional audio module. People who don't want it shouldn't mind the extra few cents for the cost of the pin headers, and people who do want it could have a super easy method to add audio support.

EDIT: Actually, maybe you'd need three jumpers on headers to replicate lifting those IC pins?
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