Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

[CStarFlare]

Are there any legitimate super plays of this game? I've seen one guy clear Insane, but he was very much focused on survival.

I suppose any -super- play video would include about 30 minutes of doing nothing against Ophan. :3

[gs68]

Personally I'm just annoyed that people gobble this up, yet won't touch Ether Vapor Remaster or Satazius or other STG gems on Steam with a ten-foot pole. I guess everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a good shmup, even if those definitions fall squarely into those of euroshmups...

[Udderdude]

Personally I'm just annoyed that people gobble this up, yet won't touch Ether Vapor Remaster or Satazius or other STG gems on Steam with a ten-foot pole. I guess everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a good shmup, even if those definitions fall squarely into those of euroshmups...

It's mostly the shiny graphics attracting the average gamer crowd.

[Tokyo-J]

Personally I'm just annoyed that people gobble this up, yet won't touch Ether Vapor Remaster or Satazius or other STG gems on Steam with a ten-foot pole. I guess everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a good shmup, even if those definitions fall squarely into those of euroshmups...

It's mostly the shiny graphics attracting the average gamer crowd.

The only thing this game should attract is flies. It is PURE SHIT!

[Udderdude]

Personally I'm just annoyed that people gobble this up, yet won't touch Ether Vapor Remaster or Satazius or other STG gems on Steam with a ten-foot pole. I guess everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a good shmup, even if those definitions fall squarely into those of euroshmups...

It's mostly the shiny graphics attracting the average gamer crowd.

The only thing this game should attract is flies. It is PURE SHIT!

I definitely would not be that hard on it. It's a flawed first attempt, like most people's first attempts at the genre in general. Doesn't manage to reach the expectations of hardcore players.

I can see that it's fine for your average gamer who has no interest besides "Play it once (on easy/normal), beat it, forget it exists".

[BareKnuckleRoo]

If it results in more people being introduced into the genre is that such a bad thing? And they are reviewing it from a mainstream perspective, not a hardcore one so they are rating it on different values.

That's be like asking if people being introduced to racing games via Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is a bad thing (a bit of an exaggeration, but the point still applies). We have way more polished shmups nowadays, and that's not even counting Cave's stuff; I can think of a lot of doujin shmups that are way more enjoyable.

a lot of this thread seems to echo what i think is a bit of an issue in a lot of niche gaming / other communities (film, music, etc). "there's better, so why bother" is a pretty shallow sentiment in itself. just because something isn't the best or isn't technically sound doesn't mean people aren't going to get enjoyment out of it, and it doesn't detract from the genre as a whole if people do.

Yeah, I totally agree. Some of my favourite games of all time weren't the best in their class but they just had something about them which resonated with me which I enjoyed.

Sine Mora is not that sort of game I'm afraid. What you're describing sounds more to me like Shadow of the Colossus or perhaps Metroid Fusion. Shadow of the Colossus is extremely fun, the game world is a pleasure to explore and the controls don't actively interfere with the gameplay. It is greatly hindered by the lack of technical power of the PS2 to the point where its framerate suffers (I haven't played the PS3 version), but overall its merits outshined this unfortunate downside. Silent Hill and the early Resident Evil games are also good examples of games where the technical shortcomings of the system were made up for by how enjoyable they were due to their atmosphere, etc. Even with the combat being a bit unpolished (only in RE3 was quickturning finally added), the games were enjoyable for what they were because on the whole the experience was satisfying (partly because survival horror was an emerging genre so expectations at the time were different). Even if they've aged a bit of late, they're still fun in a uniquely campy sort of way.

Metroid Fusion on the other hand is an example not of technical issues keeping it from being as fun as it could have been, but rather design; it's way too linear. Compared to Metroid or Super Metroid, you're literally herded from point A to point B on an extremely linear adventure, forced to collect the essential powerups in a fixed order with no real opportunity to do your own thing and enjoy the exploration to the degree that you could in Super Metroid via sequence breaking (or other modern metroidvanias). It's a very good game visually, and there's nothing really wrong with it aside from it simply being too linear to be as much fun as Super Metroid (a similar complaint with Metroid II, but at least there you don't have that annoying computer constantly telling you exactly where you go, so the exploration is more enjoyable). It's still a good game in its own right, just not a great one.

Sine Mora unfortunately does not have the redeeming qualities those other games do. Sure, it looks pretty, but that's about all it has going for it. It's supposed to be a bullet hell shmup, a genre where precise controls make for the best gameplay as one small mistake can ruin a run, yet the controls are sloppy and aren't even customizable. Heck, there's no auto-rapid fire so you get to enjoy mashing A the entire game and no reasonable upper limit on tapping speed so with a rapid controller you can unbalance the game. Modern shmups nowadays that offer internet scoreboards have pretty good scoring systems, and yet Sine Mora's scoring system is based around completely ignoring your Time Capsule ability and your special/bomb type ability. Sure, there's a medal collecting mechanic, but you just pick one up from ever 5 enemies or so, no thought to using your special abilities to earn them like in Cyvern or something. It'd be like Akai Katana, Espgaluda or Giga Wing having your special ability actually hurt your score multiplier; pretty darn dumb. And those issues are just scratching the surface; there's just so many boneheaded things wrong with Sine Mora that a competent shmup playtester would have caught that it ends up feeling more like a high-budget trolling attempt. Maybe they were too busy looking at furry porn, who the fuck knows, but they did a shit job of playtesting and it shows, so now the only people it'll appeal to are the ones who gobble up the eye candy and don't give a fuck about gameplay.

It's rather irritating that they could have such an obviously talented presentation and graphical style only to blow it by having some of the least enjoyable shmup mechanics found in a modern shmup. I can enjoy a low-budget doujin because the expectations are obviously lower, but how could Sine Mora get so many things wrong?

[Udderdude]

I just found out about this today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uLRVS_DLk

lololololol

[Observer]

It's funny, until you are the one playing and not getting damaged for an entire fucking stage, ONLY to pick that stupid item by mistake, effectively ruining a flawless no damage run. Ugh.

Seriously, that put me off the game instantly.

[Udderdude]

It's like they came up with something that would be completely immersion breaking AND piss off the player at the same time.

[Lord Satori]

whoever came up with that dumbass idea needs to be forced to fight Mushihimesama Futari's final boss on ultra mode for eternity until they clear it.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

wait what

I assumed the piano was small enough to dodge if you grabbed the pickup by accident, but it's UNAVOIDABLE?

Sine Mora, you are a fucking euroshmup kusoge. Fuck you. Fuck everyone who thought it was acceptable to release such a piece of garbage. I am going to play Akai Katana now out of pure spite, because it is everything that Sine Mora is not, despite what mainstream fanboys would have you believe. Fuck.

edit: actually you are worse than a euroshmup, you are the only shmup ever to be produced with namedropping of big developers and to have a huge budget for graphics only to put in fucking stupid shit like a deadly pickup that spawns at random and causes an unavoidable death via cutscene of a piano falling on you

[null1024]

That is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen. No redeeming qualities, it's not even silly in a cute way, it's just "whelp, imma fuck your shit up for no valid reason".

I literally have no reason to want to play this after seeing that.

[CStarFlare]

I love how this game is so polarizing that it still gets yelled at by people who are upset about things that have been known since release.

[BPzeBanshee]

I love how this game is so polarizing that it still gets yelled at by people who are upset about things that have been known since release.

And *before* release too, which makes it all the more worse.

[Observer]

But, guyz, DEM GRAPHICS!

I didn't get to the part where stage 1 is actually harder than the second because of the fucking collisions with the scenery and those stupid snakes that come out of the floor/ground. It's like you can never be too careful, something will come to ruin you. And happy power up hunting...

[Udderdude]

I love how this game is so polarizing that it still gets yelled at by people who are upset about things that have been known since release.

I wasn't exactly following this shit close enough to figure it out. It's still an amazingly dumb idea that deserves all the mockery it can get.

[CptRansom]

Finally got around to playing this game. It is fucking terrible. You can wrap shit up in sparkles and rainbows, but it's still shit.

And fucking LOL at that piano.

[psoslayer]

Finally got around to playing this game. It is fucking terrible. You can wrap shit up in sparkles and rainbows, but it's still shit.

And fucking LOL at that piano.

This.

[Squire Grooktook]

Wow, it's sad because I really did feel the time limit and manipulation abilities were pretty cool, and really deserve a better designed game imo.

I mean, I will always prefer a traditional straight forward shmup, but I don't mind a change of pace, and I'd like to see a neat concept like this executed well.

It's the kind of game that even though it's bad, I'd still want it to sell well and get a sequel, if only to have it's flaws fixed, get some more artistic (and by that I mean good) level design, and be polished to become the jewel it could be. In it's current state, it's just a guilty pleasure for me that I'd play because it has a few isolated gameplay elements that appeal to me, but that I know is not really that good a game and not really something I'd recommend to anyone else.

[Tokyo-J]

wait what

I assumed the piano was small enough to dodge if you grabbed the pickup by accident, but it's UNAVOIDABLE?

Sine Mora, you are a fucking euroshmup kusoge. Fuck you. Fuck everyone who thought it was acceptable to release such a piece of garbage. I am going to play Akai Katana now out of pure spite, because it is everything that Sine Mora is not, despite what mainstream fanboys would have you believe. Fuck.

edit: actually you are worse than a euroshmup, you are the only shmup ever to be produced with namedropping of big developers and to have a huge budget for graphics only to put in fucking stupid shit like a deadly pickup that spawns at random and causes an unavoidable death via cutscene of a piano falling on you

WINNING POST


You are my hero!

[Tokyo-J]

Finally got around to playing this game. It is fucking terrible. You can wrap shit up in sparkles and rainbows, but it's still shit.

And fucking LOL at that piano.

Truer words have never been spoken about this game!

I loathe this POS

[Bu11et He11]

WINNING POST

I dunno, I preferred your .....
"Sine Mora is the shmup for people who like to drink Diarhea to start the day"
Post.

[Alfred]

I like it, I don't care if you all think it's shit. The game has some problems but at the end of the day it's still a good game. It was their first try at a STG. I would be interested in SM2. If more European devs would read this forum their games would be better and we could test the games before release.

[Skykid]

Is there any game that most people here agree is good, like DDP or something?

Yeah, Dodonpachi.

[EmperorIng]

Don't forget Sol Divide.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I like it, I don't care if you all think it's shit. The game has some problems but at the end of the day it's still a good game. It was their first try at a STG. I would be interested in SM2. If more European devs would read this forum their games would be better and we could test the games before release.

Didn't one of the devs actually talk to people here and acted as if he gave a shit about what people kowledgeable in the shmup genre have to say about his team's idiotic ideas, only to then ignore almost everything that was said to him?

Anyway, by all means play and enjoy the game as much as you want, everybody likes different things. Personally, I would still argue that there are certain design elements that make a game objectively worse than it has to be, and Sine Mora seems to have quite a few of those.

[casualcoder]

Personally I'm just annoyed that people gobble this up, yet won't touch Ether Vapor Remaster or Satazius or other STG gems on Steam with a ten-foot pole. I guess everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a good shmup, even if those definitions fall squarely into those of euroshmups...

It's mostly the shiny graphics attracting the average gamer crowd.

The only thing this game should attract is flies. It is PURE SHIT!

My girlfriend is into hardcore games like dark souls and street fighter, but for some reason she can't see the merit in all of my excellent shmups. But when she saw sina mora, she actually asked if we could buy it and when I asked why she basically said it looked much better than all of my Cave shmups et al that I already own. I tried to explain that appearances mean very little in this genre but I think for a shmup to really take the genre mainstream it would have to have the mastery of a Cave title with the visual appeal of something like this turd of a game (although I personally find the visuals of a bland post-apocalyptic, futuristic space shmup to be the least appealing and laziest of all)

[EmperorIng]

Maybe she doesn't like all those loli shmups you have.

[Squire Grooktook]

I remember when I was getting into fighting games, the idea of a single player focused game just couldn't hold me for a long time. That might be part of not seeing the appeal of stg's. As for liking Sine Mora, I have no idea.

[Udderdude]

I like it, I don't care if you all think it's shit. The game has some problems but at the end of the day it's still a good game. It was their first try at a STG. I would be interested in SM2. If more European devs would read this forum their games would be better and we could test the games before release.

Didn't one of the devs actually talk to people here and acted as if he gave a shit about what people kowledgeable in the shmup genre have to say about his team's idiotic ideas, only to then ignore almost everything that was said to him?

Yeah, he was in here a few (dozen?) pages back. He also showed up after the game was complete and released.

Here's his account! :O http://shmups.system11.org/memberlist.p ... ile&u=7548