Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I was offered a very nice copy of MADDO SHITTI recently. Decided not to bother, at least for now... has style for sure, but none of its component genre parts seem better than passable, typically outclassed by dedicated stuff I already have. Bit like Konami's later genre hybrid experiment GUN SIGHT (which isn't as cool, but its NES version shared an ARCHIE ad with SUPER C and thus has a certain foothold in my brain!).

Donald Land is news to me. Where the thought of a Treasure Micky D's sidescroller vaguely offends, and whatever McKids was imparts nothing whatsoever, a Trio The Punch-era DECO getting their hands on the esteemed license sounds terrifying!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Oh BIRUSAMA, you so wacky. (I managed to stop myself from writing that earlier!) One thing that confuses me with Mad City is that they've got the KAA DORAIBINGU stages back-and-back. Aesthetically the whole stage progression makes no sense. Feels like a wasted opportunity all around.

I love Gordon's facial expressions though. They seem to have nothing at all to do with whatever he says, and I imagine the late-game grimace after each statement is just his way of preventing himself from swallowing his tongue.

For me, Donald Land's main turnoff is the really ugly color scheme and overall look. I didn't watch past the first stage, so my impressions might not hold up.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I could've really gone for a more ambitious, dedicated KAA AKUSHON game - say, Highway Star meets Night Stocker. Stupid TVCM, retroactively crushin all mah dreams!

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The stiff, feedback-bereft BERUTE SCROLLINGU didn't wow. With all that nice water it doesn't even let you drown a motherfucker like in that one Kunio game! One out of five Double Dragon IIs (maybe four outta five Datsugokus). The GAN SHOOTINGU is fun but I kinda get my fill of that from GUN-DEC (where admittedly the extra-curricular stuff is more glorified bonus rounds than anything - but at least they seem to know that and get outta muh face promptly).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Does Billy have the ability to flip fools over his head? I noticed the CPU used it a couple times against hapless NintendoCompost in the mansion approach belt, but never again.

There's even a Quiz game in there, sheesh. That's also done better by Konami - in Surprise Attack.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

So I finally beat the 6th loop of Contra, although I used save states on my Everdrive to mark the beginning of each loop and haven't done one continuous run yet. I will probably keep practicing the 6th loop until I beat it without a death and then attempt a full run through.

According to that Contra fan site run by a shmups forum member (contrapedia.wordpress), the game actually continues to increase in difficulty up to 99 play throughs. I find this somewhat hard to believe, but I might try to test it.

It also claims you can only get 1 extend per loop starting with the 5th loop. Maybe they were referring to the NES version, but this is definitely *NOT* true on the Famicom version. Extra lives were given normally even on the 6th loop.

Game gets super fun on the 6th loop--if this really keep increasing in difficulty up to 99 loops I semi expect my Famicom to melt at some point.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I wonder if the extends are capped somehow. On the handful of six-loop runs I've done, I definitely notice they stop coming after a point, usually around the fifth or sixth loop. The first time it happened was kinda fun, since I was just screwing about burning through the obscene number I'd racked up when suddenly I noticed the jingles weren't happening. I know I've had over thirty lives with more continuing to pile up before they stopped coming.

trap would know better than me, but I imagine you could hack the ROM pretty easily to experiment with ultra-high loop conditions.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

BIL wrote:I wonder if the extends are capped somehow. On the handful of six-loop runs I've done, I definitely notice they stop coming after a point, usually around the fifth or sixth loop. The first time it happened was kinda fun, since I was just screwing about burning through the obscene number I'd racked up when suddenly I noticed the jingles weren't happening. I know I've had over thirty lives with more continuing to pile up before they stopped coming.

trap would know better than me, but I imagine you could hack the ROM pretty easily to experiment with ultra-high loop conditions.

Yeah, I don't know the details. I had beat the 5th loop with only 1 life remaining and so I created a save state at the beginning of loop 6 with 1 life. I definitely get extends regularly using this save state.

Also that Contrapedia website claims that rapid-fire increases up to the 16th "R" power-up collection. I know you lose accumulated "R" when changing guns, but does collecting the same gun you are currently using also reset it?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

cicada88 wrote:Also that Contrapedia website claims that rapid-fire increases up to the 16th "R" power-up collection.
I'd be genuinely surprised if that were true - I collect extra Rs for points, but AFAIK, only the first upgrades your weapon. Can't remember absurdly optimised speedrunners like David Heidman Jr. ever mentioning it either; in that video he disregards every R after the first post-spreader one, gained at stage 1's midpoint.

I could easily be wrong though - just going on what I've observed. Took me like 25 years to notice Akumajou Dracula's merman spawn points were marked by candles, lolol. And even then, only because loop 2's SEWER SURFIN will instakill you until you catch on!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

While researching some Contra stuff, I found this epic post about the hardest Contra game by a certain "stickghost" from sonichq community...

Excerpt:

"Anyway, I believe The Alien Wars to be the hardest (playing on Hard, since that's the only way to see the true ending) Contra game. Despite my efforts, it was the LAST Contra game to be defeated by me, and I would say it took the most overall time to do too. Memorable moment: playing the game at work (I cashiered evenings at a gas station run by a boss who just didn't give a f___ what we did as long as we got work done), where I actually ended up beating it. Anyway, I was on that heart boss from the first game stuck in a rut of jumping over those Facehuggers, running back to my previous spot, and then jumping over the next wave, all while holding down the trigger on the Spread Gun and saying "OH S___." every time I jumped. This went on for at least a minute (it sure felt longer) before I finally got killed. This prompted a final "S___!", then I turned around to face a customer who had been standing there for who knows how long. He had been too busy watching me play to complain though. He simply said "Dude, that's insane."
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

^^^My first encounter with hard mode heart was pretty similar. Crazy stuff.

To me, Contra 3 and Daimakaimura/Ghouls and Ghosts are the definitive run and gun shooters* . Both bring rng terror reflex dodging by the boatloads, and Contra 3's run and gun sections boast all the blazing speed and chaos of Hardcorps and Shattered Soldier's run and gun sequences without either of those games drawbacks (for Hardcorps, the incredibly brevity and relative lack of challenge in its run and gun sections, the "blink and you'll miss them" nature of those moments in SS). Not to mention, Contra 3 has some of the best boss designs in the franchise. They're totally awesome both in concept, and in execution (plenty of reflex dodging and variety).

The top down sections probably would have been better off as more running and gunning, but as they stand they're decent fun once you get used to them. I wouldn't play a whole game of them, but they're fast and smooth diversions that play better then the base sections in the original Contra or the top down sequences in Super C IMO. The only other notable issue with the game is stage 4 (and a good part of stage 3) being auto scrollers, but in stage 4's case I find it hard to complain given how excellent at least two major bosses in the sequence are.

I'm not sure I'd call it the hardest. Hard mode I'd say is a harder 1cc than Hardcorps. Not sure how I'd rank it compared to Shattered Soldier. I'm not quite as experienced with it, but I think Contra 4 on hard seems as tough or tougher as well.


*(Metal Slug is a close contender, but I ultimately prefer the surgical precision and speed of these two games over Metal Slugs visceral but messy chaos)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Shin Contra's difficulty is definitely more in line with Hard Corps' - tons of very strict memoriser bosses, with a small but intense handful of later RNG encounters, and infrequent run/guns that are all too easily kept under control. However, the Ratio system forces you to play perfectly to see the entire game, so the first time making it to the end will probably feel more brutal than in HC (and of course there's only one longer path, not several shorter ones).

Spirits' more consistently volatile bosses and frenziedly dangerous run/guns put it a rung above the latter two Nakazato-helmed sidescrollers. They're all great games, but that balance of cinematic direction, boss parading and twitchy danger is alchemic.

Although FC Contra is rather easy, I actually find it the most consistently fun of the JP-produced sidescrollers*. Its legion, unpredictable runners and treacherous platforming are a tremendously entertaining combo, making the comparative lack of difficulty all but irrelevant. So satisfying to romp through with spreader blazing, so easy to get unceremoniously whacked down to peashooter, and all presented in BOOMING UMECHAN TEAM AUDIOVISION. Classic.

*haven't played Contra 4 enough to comment; planning to address that over the summer.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

With the exception of the epic bike level, Contra 3 bores me. The bosses lack that Treasure-esque fun factor of Hard Corps, and the mook sections are tedious rather than tense. Contra 4 is a tough call. I really want to say it's the best Contra, taking the brilliance of the NES games and tacking on real difficulty. But the run speed is too damn slow, it just feels wrong.

Rebirth seems really fucking cool, but I only just started playing and haven't gotten far yet.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Pretas »

Has anyone made a romhack of Contra III/Spirits that cuts out the overhead Mode 7 levels? I'd probably enjoy repeat plays of it considerably more.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Volteccer_Jack wrote:With the exception of the epic bike level, Contra 3 bores me. The bosses lack that Treasure-esque fun factor of Hard Corps, and the mook sections are tedious rather than tense. Contra 4 is a tough call. I really want to say it's the best Contra, taking the brilliance of the NES games and tacking on real difficulty. But the run speed is too damn slow, it just feels wrong.

Rebirth seems really fucking cool, but I only just started playing and haven't gotten far yet.
Considering it moves about as fast as Hardcorps and has greater enemy density and more varied terrain (compare the terrain in Alien Lair vs the one in Hardcorps), on top of actually being challenging, I can't imagine saying 3's run and gun sections are more tedious than Hardcorps, unless you're playing on normal. For me they're the best in the series. Hardcorps run and gun sections are amazing in parts, but after the first one they're mostly neutered by your character gaining access to a weapon designed to trivialize them (Sheena's rail fun, Ray's spread or homing, etc). The first one is probably the hardest, ironically.

As for the bosses, I guess I can understand "Treasure-esque fun factor" if by that you mean flashy attacks that become mostly trivial when you memorize how absurdly static they are, which accounts for probably 60% or more of the battles in Hardcorps. 3's closest equivalent to that is Big Fuzz on stage 3, but most of the other bosses have a handy rng factor somewhere to keep you on edge. To be fair though, the battles that are similarly random in Hardcorps are insanely good, and they have a decent distribution throughout the game. Random dodging just isn't as omnipresent as it is in 3 or the Nes games..

Hardcorps is a great game but it's far too uneven IMO to be above 3, I'd put it on par with the Nes games and slightly above Shin. Too many safe spots. Too many speed kills of otherwise fun patterns (dead eye joe's first pattern in stage 4). Too many static memo hazards over rng dodging. Too many pacing issues (the infamous dead eye joe climb on stage 4). Too many weird difficulty balance issues (Dead Eye Joe and the Alien Cell are easy no matter who you pick on the missile route). When it does click it becomes totally amazing though, which puts it above the much more polished and balanced but not quite as wacky Shin Contra/Shattered Soldier imo.
Volteccer_Jack wrote:Contra 4 is a tough call. I really want to say it's the best Contra, taking the brilliance of the NES games and tacking on real difficulty. But the run speed is too damn slow, it just feels wrong.

Rebirth seems really fucking cool, but I only just started playing and haven't gotten far yet.
Never noticed Contra 4's move speed being slow. Seems about as fast as the nes games or faster. It's a great game, only minor issue imo is the base stages (they aren't bad, but kind of unneeded since the game is long enough as it is), and the fact that runner zakos don't start shooting you till the end-game.

As for Rebirth, I stopped playing it when I realized the runner zakos weren't random :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Pretas »

Tim Rogers may be an uber-pretentious windbag, but his Contra 4 review/exposé is spot on.

He's also the only other person I've seen call out the fact that the grappling hook addition is superfluous bullshit. Even the Insomnia review jerks off over that dumb grapple.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Pretas wrote:Tim Rogers may be an uber-pretentious windbag, but his Contra 4 review/exposé is spot on. He's also the only other person I've seen to call out the fact that the grappling hook addition is superfluous bullshit.
I remember that review. Hidden behind the rambling, unfunny wall of text there's actually some gems of tr-no wait this is just rambling nonsense.

The grappling hook is...okay. A decent attempt at trying to utilize the duel screen. Doesn't add a ton to the gameplay but doesn't really subtract either.
Now check out Contra III. Or Contra. These are speed runs by highly skilled players, though really, it’s not impossible to think that these games can’t be cleared flawlessly on a first attempt by someone who’s just really good at videogames.
Almost, but have fun against Big Fuzz's flamethrower or the stage 4 cannon. Or a ton of things the Brain does.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Pretas wrote:Tim Rogers may be an uber-pretentious windbag, but his Contra 4 review/exposé is spot on.

He's also the only other person I've seen call out the fact that the grappling hook addition is superfluous bullshit. Even the Insomnia review jerks off over that dumb grapple.
I can't love many of Contra IV's additions to the series. The grappling hook is apparently explained by the decision to try and make use of the two-screen setup Nintendo foisted on the gaming world - and I think it's a prime example of why things like that should not be attempted for serious action games.

Having written that, do I agree with what I wrote years ago? Taking a fond look back at my writing at the end of 2007, I can see I definitely needed to get off the fence. Here's what I had to write about the grapple:
Yeah, there's a grappling hook, but it doesn't get in your way and doesn't dominate the game - it feels like a weak point when you're trying to zip up to the top only to get hit by an enemy (while defenseless - you can't shoot back at this point), but you get used to it and it's an elegant solution to the issue of getting around on two screens of action. Yeah, there isn't twitch-precise midair movement, which causes a problem here and there in the game - but instead of worrying about it, modify your behavior and use the ability to shoot up or down independently while jumping left or right (true to promises, this behavior is straight out of the NES port of Contra).
Ignoring my self-contradictory waffling, it's clear that the grapple really has defined the game in a way I didn't care for. Overall, I never really felt happy with the game, and I think that passage shows part of the reason why.

Wish I'd had the guts (and gameplay IQ) to just go and savage the thing, heh. In other news, the Contra HQ basically went out the window after I got a "scoop" about the mobile version of the game. Unfortunately for Konami, that meant the scales fell from my eyes when I bought their atrocious BREW adaptation for flip phones. Still has a grapple, except now it pulls your hero along one pixel at a time!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

I actually think the brief moment of vulnerability is the one interesting part of the grappling hook. Almost adds a CV-esque element of commitment to the handful of moments you have to utilize it per stage. To me, it adds a nice little touch of variety. Also I'm pretty sure the left right movement in air is twitch precise, it just keeps on going (no neutral) like all the other games.

Other then the above "not enough shooting zakos" my only other complaint with C4 is the bosses. Way too many guys who sit above you (or below in one case) and fire stuff down on you (or up, in one case). The stage 2, 4, 5, and final boss all come to mind. Otherwise the level design is pretty varied, with lots of different types of terrain to navigate in each stage, tons of rng runners testing your reflexes, and some pretty cool unique setpieces in each stage (the terrifying regenerating/transforming robots in stage 4 come to mind). IMO it's a top notch Contra, and easily stands on its own by eschewing the boss rush obsession of later games for pure run and gun/platforming focus. It's not quite as fast paced or wacky as Contra 3 or Hardcorps though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

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Volteccer_Jack wrote:With the exception of the epic bike level, Contra 3 bores me. The bosses lack that Treasure-esque fun factor of Hard Corps, and the mook sections are tedious rather than tense.
lolwut :shock: st1's opening gauntlet is faster and more lethally volatile than any other run in the JP series. For once, telegraphed shooters feel justified - without that visual aid, the battery of dogs/snipers/gunwalls and furiously spawning runners would overshoot intense and collapse into clusterfuck. st5 tightens FC Super Contra's excellent but venom-wanting catwalk bumrush to noose intensity and concision. I'm always relieved when it's over, for the best of reasons - it's a total nightmare with its leaping turbo-xenos, homing fuzzies and treacherous footing. Talking HAADO MODO, ofc! I could see not digging st3's run/guns much. The first is very rote with its snipers and rollies, while the second's FC Super Contra fortress reprise is a bit plain. Though thankfully, not autoscrolling this time.

Bike stage is secretly the game's best. Well, at least as good as the rest, and among the best autoscrollers ever. The only useless bit (selfdestructor robo-dong) is actually a welcome breather, with the seizure pace everywhere else. Opening biker massacre and the immediately following pointblank tank annihilation make me holler. Air to ground assault battery flies by so quick it's tough to destroy it all. Ostrich thingy and Rocket Ninja Sasuke are perfect speedkill miniboss fodder, annoyingly (and dangerously) frisky yet instantly demolishable. Missile hop is pure pants-shitting RNG terror of the kind only steely control can overcome.

Even that memo-cockslap cannon that concludes the first battleship encouter is fun, destroying it before it can let rip. The range, pace and quality of setpieces is like a 2D equivalent of Sin & Punishment's spectacular naval battle, these two games not coincidentally sharing personnel.

Gonna echo Squire on HC's bosses. When they're good they're amazing (Spheroid Joe, Claw Bahamut, that crazy baldhead fuck DOCTOR CRAB), but there are several shockingly harmless and/or long-winded ones in there. Jungle boss makes me glaze over between forms, and the Doc's "prey for mah experiments" boss rush is a fiasco. Hard Corps is like this in general, as is Shin Contra - batches of stellar content in need of an editor. I suspect Nakazato wasn't the only key player on Team SFX.

more of this pls:
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and definitely more of this!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

After browsing Sunsoft Batman's manual, I see that the smoking "Ninja" in Stage 1 was actually a recurring Batman villain named KGBeast. Random but interesting as I just assumed it was some generic badass the programmers decided to throw in there like majority of the game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Haha, yeah. Besides ninja, Killer Moth and Fire Bug (st1 and st5.1 bosses), many common stage enemies are also named after obscure Batman villains, to ridiculous effect. The stationary pistol gunners are Deadshot, apparently. Their running version is Maxie Zeus, who's certainly faring better than he did in A Serious House on Serious Earth. I guess the st4 boss is Two Face.

If anyone, ninja's namesake should've been Black Spider.

Still, so much cooler making up crazy comicbook mutants and robots than boringly aping random mooks from the 1989 movie like the MD game. Same for the stage designs. Joker gets his own bioweapons manufacturing facility on FC, bristling with lethal security mechanisms. Meanwhile on the MD... welcome to Flugelheim Museum, just like the movie! But unlike the movie, please mind the bottomless pits, spiked floors and levitating platforms. They are on loan from Demon Castle Dracula in some European backwater, and may not pass all health and safety regulations.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote: Still, so much cooler making up crazy comicbook mutants and robots than boringly aping random mooks from the 1989 movie like the MD game. Same for the stage designs. Joker gets his own bioweapons manufacturing facility on FC, bristling with lethal security mechanisms. Meanwhile on the MD... welcome to Flugelheim Museum, just like the movie! But unlike the movie, please mind the bottomless pits, spiked floors and levitating platforms. They are on loan from Demon Castle Dracula in some European backwater, and may not pass all health and safety regulations.
And on the GB, the atheistic is more like "Welcome to World 2-2, Flugelheim Museum Land!".
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Related, I didn't realise the GB Gremlins 2 was a sidescroller until recently. I was going all "HAW HAW" at the fanciful, Mario-esque stage design until I remembered the FC game is exactly like that too, only top-down. The office of the future will include bottomless chasms, spike floors and levitating platf... oh no, you outsourced this to Romania too, didn't you?

I like how comic-realistic FC Batman keeps its settings. Environmental hazards consistently make sense. No wacky spike traps in the city streets and rooftops. Churning turbines in the sewer, toxic waste and high-voltage power lines in the plant, grinding gears in the clock tower... even stage 4's outright evil bioweapons plant seems plausibly industrial. Not a levitating platform in sight. 3-3's narrow climb out of the sewers, squeezed between bare rock and metal foundation, is a favourite bit of sidescrolling art. It feels like somewhere you're not intended to be, with those whirring ventilation fans that shred errant walljumps simply part of the environment.

Solbrain/Shatterhand manages something very similar, as does Super Shinobi on the MD (save for those lousy levitating platforms in stage 5-1's high-rise, ouuu!).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

Just beat Famicom Super Contra for the first time. Game was pretty epic honestly, but the last boss was a joke.

If I had to compare Contra with Super Contra...


Presentation: Contra (better title screen by a mile, Famicom Version with cutscenes / world map)
Music: Contra
Graphics: Super C
Set Pieces: Super C (Earthquake, Massive elevator stage, shooting down through alien larva, Expanding/Contracting ceilings)
Difficulty: Super C
Bosses: Super C
Final Boss: Contra (Even though it's also too easy, it's still well designed and cooler and at least gives some semblance of a final sweat)

From what I understand, Super Contra also doesn't change on subsequent loops, which is pretty disappointing.

It's hard for me to say which is better; they feel extremely close. I owned Contra back when I was 8, and this is the first time going after Super C. I think I would definitely put Super C as the winner if I hadn't beat the final boss on the first life and if it had looping difficulty. I still think it might have the slight edge.

Too bad Konami didn't use the VRC6 Mapper with Super C and go over the top like Akumajou Densetsu compared to the original Akumajou Dracula.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Trying to figure out NES Cap'n Silver. The Frankenstein boss seems bugged in puNES.

I'll egregiously post another watch the player learn the game style "longplay" (for the SMS version). Funny to watch how the player handles the coconuts. No damage, though.

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

God halp meh, that video's makin' me want to resume my on/off Quest For Mark III Games That Aren't Lame ! At the end of the last amazing episode, almost a year ago, I'd confirmed Shinobi was a no-go with bad porting and forehead-smacking additions. Currently, my lonely tally remains one Kenseiden, whose Dracula II meets Demon's Blazon (YEARSZ B4 the latter in fact) ARPGing I'm most pleased with. Time to fire up the shortlist. I think part of the problem is sticking to JP-only stuff.
cicada88 wrote:It's hard for me to say which is better; they feel extremely close. I owned Contra back when I was 8, and this is the first time going after Super C. I think I would definitely put Super C as the winner if I hadn't beat the final boss on the first life and if it had looping difficulty. I still think it might have the slight edge.

Too bad Konami didn't use the VRC6 Mapper with Super C and go over the top like Akumajou Densetsu compared to the original Akumajou Dracula.
No contest between FC Contra and Super Contra, imho. Former's a cast-iron cornerstone of my library, the latter is simply very very nice to have. That is to say, I'd eat glass before parting with it but I know which one I'd rescue from a burning building! ^_~ I mean, rescue first then die horribly after going back in!

I actually wish the adaptation had been even looser. The closer it gets to the arcade version, in stages 2, 3 and 6, the weaker the action. Inherently flatter stage design is offset in AC by furious pace and indulgent, floor-shaking destruction. There's simply too much space and too little heat in FC's iterations, disappointingly given its vastly superior aiming response. The new stages fare better, particularly 5 and 8 with their back-to-form treacherous platforming. The latter's ramp leaping and zako-complicating turrets are superb. Not crazy about 4's overlong autoscroll, but on balance it's certainly a very good game. Rather like HC and Shin it merely doesn't have the pitch-perfection of its immediate predecessor. And yeah, where's the loops?! Even GB Contra has one.

Speaking of, have you tried GB / Operation C? I consider it easily as essential as the FC/SFC/MD/PS2 entries. Totally earns its little spot in Shin's unlockable database. Sticks close to the FC games but never offensively so. Keeps the pace high with some particularly fun to speedkill bosses, and delivers a pair of outstandingly action-packed final stages. st1 autoscroller will make you exclaim WTF but luckily it's an anomaly. st5's is actually really good with its laser traps and ambushing runners + huggers.

Left its mark on the series with the introduction of standard-issue machinegun, global autofire and the homing shot. Combining Spirits/Hard Corps autofire with FC-style run/gun simplicity gives it a certain appeal, I find (it feels pretty lame using external AF in the Famicom games... spreader keeps bunching up!). Jump's a bit screwy (arcs very high with little forward travel) but nothing hard to adjust to. Amusingly the devs seemed to know this... there's a mildly tricky jump before the third boss that'll spawn a handy bridge if you wait around a little.
Last edited by BIL on Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imhotep
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Imhotep »

Super C does loop in the US version at least, but I'm unsure of the difficulty increase.

I've cleared Operation C back in the game boy days, took a bit of methodical playing and I was mighty proud.
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cicada88
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by cicada88 »

Imhotep wrote:Super C does loop in the US version at least, but I'm unsure of the difficulty increase.

I've cleared Operation C back in the game boy days, took a bit of methodical playing and I was mighty proud.
Super Contra does restart, but there are no difficulty changes on subsequent loops from what I've read. I could be wrong on this as I was under the same impression for the OG Contra, but later found out that each loop's difficulty was fairly subtle and hard to notice.

to BIL: I actually owned Operation C back in the day, but I haven't checked back into older GB stuff recently. I definitely plan to revisit it again at some point.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I'll have to check up on the NES version, ta Imhotep - I could've sworn my cart looped up back in the day, at least a bit, but the FC one definitely doesn't. The runner spawn rate is actually very high by default, problem is they've not got any platforms (or guns) to work with, so you just get a glut of green dudes to scrape off your six occasionally. st3 is a prime offender for that (love the amphibious firefights with lots of treeline snipers, though).
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Ed Oscuro
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Spent a bit of time with Castlevania (PRG0) via puNES + unglorious savestate abuse. It's been a while and one thing really hit me this time: Color count seems to take a dive once you get past the easier levels - after the Monster + Igor fight, and you enter the dungeons (followed soon after by the lab). High difficulty past that point will either keep you going or turn you away!

Triple shot cross is really great, Death only hit me once through my own carelessness with that going. It seems mostly like difficulty resides in the level enemies, with the damage sponge bats goading you on before swooping in for the bump kill, or the deadly axe knight + medusa combo, or the clocktower + unhappy hopper and eagle coincidences, and levels that don't let you heal up before a boss help ensure you take a good whack. I like the subtle touch of the axe knight's shield knocking back the cross, so that it's more useful as pest control and not dealing major damage. I am sure I didn't do everything in the smartest way though; I'm still trying to figure out a few things. Heck, even stuff that later games trivialized, like the skull cannons, requires a fair amount of attention and care here.

It's also nice to get those triple hearts from Dracula, or 1000 point bonuses for chaining cross hits. I wish more weapons allowed for that. Still, the subweapon function and balance seems really elegantly designed. I don't see where you would ever want to drop the triple shot cross - maybe the axe is OK for specific fights, but after the first boss it's time to move on from that, I think.

Thinking it over, it's easy to see why Castlevania II attracts some fond feelings as its world graphics have been tarted up. If only the mansion designs had been sensible...

As background for this, I saw Mr. HoSe's suprisingly good Dracula X PC-Engine playthrough. It has a few gaffes but the takeaway is Konami have really dialed back the difficulty, to the point where no-damage playthroughs are expected by the game's scoring system. I do like the game's level structure and secret / path design (mostly), but that difficulty reduction, coupled with fattening up the game with lite beer calories, doesn't seem like the best direction for the series. I can understand the attraction for this design at the time but I wish we had gotten something a bit meatier for the hardware.

Current random favorite NES thing: The "Don't Knock" signs in Data East's (?) Werewolf.
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