XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Grimakis]

Yes, it can, but most (all?) modern HDTVs support 1080p50 just fine, so you'd get a much better experience with the Framemeister outputting 50Hz, because if you leave it at 60Hz, you'll get very jerky motion.

Unfortunately my TV absolutely doesn't support 50Hz. I accidentally set the output to 50Hz, and had a very difficult time change it back. I had to dig out my old LCD computer monitor which by some miracle was able to display it, and I could go through the menu and set it back to 60Hz.

Good to know though that I could display the 50Hz game on 60Hz TV. What would be the result? Would some frames be duplicated?

[Guspaz]

IIRC every fifth frame will be doubled. The uneven nature is why motion will look jerky.

Another question might be, are you sure that you need to display 50Hz? There are not all that many PAL exclusives, and some PAL consoles are happy enough to force 60Hz even for PAL games.

[Grimakis]

IIRC every fifth frame will be doubled. The uneven nature is why motion will look jerky.

Another question might be, are you sure that you need to display 50Hz? There are not all that many PAL exclusives, and some PAL consoles are happy enough to force 60Hz even for PAL games.

No i'm not sure. However I've heard that it will go down this way.

I'm looking to get Doshin the Giant. The Pal version is in English but it is my understanding that it will not output 60Hz like many other Pal GameCube games can be forced to do. I am trying to decide between the NTSC Japanese version(can't read Japanese) or the PAL version.

[Guspaz]

http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.ph ... ility_List

Doshin the Giant PAL is listed as supporting 60Hz, 480p, and 576p when forced through Swiss.

[Grimakis]

http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.ph ... ility_List

Doshin the Giant PAL is listed as supporting 60Hz, 480p, and 576p when forced through Swiss.

I only have a Freeloader to launch the game. I don't have any additional hardware. How bad will the stutter be? Would it be more worth it just to get the Japanese NTSC version of the game?

[the androgyne]

Hey guys, first post here but been lurking for a while!

I've ordered an XRGB-Mini which is due in Feb, and in preparation i've started buying up some of the cables i need.
One of those is a D-Terminal to Component adapter so i can use my PS2 and Gamecube with their component cables.
Actually the TV i have has D-Terminal, since i live in Japan, so i thought i'd try the cable already and got a nice little bonus I wasn't expecting.

I moved here from Australia and bought some of my PAL machines with me, so previously i'd tried with composite cables:
- The PS2 loads in black & white with shaky screen, but for games that support 60hz, displays fine and in colour.
- The Gamecube loads in black & white with shaky screen, but for games that support 60hz, shakiness goes away but still in black & white.

With the D-Terminal to Component adapter:
- Both PS2 and Gamecube display nothing at all on startup, but upon switching to 60hz, display fine and in colour. I probably wouldn't have realised it worked at all, if not for F-Zero GX auto switching to 60hz!

Reading Grimakis' posts above, it got me wondering how this will all work when i plug them in through the Framemeister's HDMI later on... will there be any more issues related to the switching that i should be aware of? I need to find this TV's manual and see if it supports 50hz over HDMI perhaps. I have a few PAL games that don't support 60hz still that i'm hoping i can play again.

That said - I have a JPN Gamecube as well, and using the adapter, have finally been able to run it in Progressive Scan, and i was pretty blown away by the difference. The image just seems massively more stable and solid. If it's within your means Grimakis, a JPN Cube and the NTSC Doshin + Component Cable would look great! Remember you can just use your PAL power brick if you go this route.

One question for the regulars here... the main reason i'm getting the Framemeister is so i can run my Saturn and Super Famicom through RGB. I've seen all the praise for FBX' profiles but can someone describe what kind of difference they'd make, compared to the basic recommended settings for 240p here? I intend to output at 720p so i can get nicer scanlines. Thanks

[onegoodsoul]

I've seen all the praise for FBX' profiles but can someone describe what kind of difference they'd make, compared to the basic recommended settings for 240p here? I intend to output at 720p so i can get nicer scanlines. Thanks

Simply put - the difference is "close" vs "exact".

By default you should (by trial and error) be able to get the a great picture from your systems and a Framemeister. FBX has doing all of the easy, hard and detailed work for you. So the final image is exactly what it was intended to be (scanline lovers are scoffing right now) vs. meh, it's close enough.

Aspect ratio, color, pixel ratio, etc. are perfect or near perfect with the FBX profiles. Also, AFAIK the FBX profile are intended for 1080p, so 720p will be an issue with that.

[FBX]

I've seen all the praise for FBX' profiles but can someone describe what kind of difference they'd make, compared to the basic recommended settings for 240p here? I intend to output at 720p so i can get nicer scanlines. Thanks

For 240p at 720p output, you may be able to get away with not even bothering with ZOOM settings and just using SMART_2X. Either way, make sure AUTO_SCALER is set to "OFF" and set H_SCALER to 5 and V_SCALER is fine at either 6 or 7.

With ZOOM on, you get the benefit of setting AR manually, and you do this with ZOOM_WIDTH. Thankfully ZOOM settings at ZOOM_SIZE 100 and ZOOM_OVERSCAN 100 are the same as SMART_2X at 720p, and I suspect this will come in real handy for 4k display users as those sets become more common. Anyway, If you want 4:3 AR, you'll need to turn ZOOM on (with size and overscan at 100) and physically measure the vertical height of the image on your display to determine how wide it should be for horizontal. So for example, if vertical happens to be 20 inches on your display, then 4:3 AR horizontal would be 26.666 inches. Then you adjust ZOOM_WIDTH until it matches that value physically. That's all there is to it.

[Everblue]

@FBX - I have noticed, when using your x4 zoom profiles (for example SNES, NeoGeo) that around 3 scanlines are thicker than the others. When using a x5 profile, this does not happen. If I set ZOOM to "OFF" then the scanlines are perfect.

Any idea what the problem is?

PS. My TV Picture mode is actual pixel size with no scaling

[FBX]

@FBX - I have noticed, when using your x4 zoom profiles (for example SNES, NeoGeo) that around 3 scanlines are thicker than the others. When using a x5 profile, this does not happen. If I set ZOOM to "OFF" then the scanlines are perfect.

Any idea what the problem is?

PS. My TV Picture mode is actual pixel size with no scaling

Could be that your Framemeister behaves differently than mine does (or your console is putting out a slightly different video signal). All scanlines were checked on each profile, and they were perfectly uniform on my end. You'd need to start experimenting with ZOOM_OVERSCAN and VISUAL_SET's V_WIDTH to see if you can find the perfect integer.

As I mentioned before, you can cheat a little by turning ZOOM off, and then setting the image mode to SMART_2X. Then you'd put a piece of tape on the top and bottom edge of the image on your screen. Then from there, you'd turn ZOOM back on and start adjusting ZOOM_OVERSCAN until it reaches the tape edges (using VISUAL_SET's V_WIDTH to fine tune as needed). Then you check the results with the scanline button. If scanlines are uneven, you keep trying until you dial it in.

Also if I may ask, what input are you using? RGB, S-Video, or Composite? NTSC?

[Everblue]

Also if I may ask, what input are you using? RGB, S-Video, or Composite? NTSC?

RGB. I've tried SNES, Neo Geo and Sega Saturn all at RGB60, all same result.

Update: It seems I got lucky straight away - I just set V_WIDTH to 30, and its perfect.

[Coryoon]

Can someone remind me how I can adjust the 'Synch Time' values?

When I got into this I see three sets of figures and whilst I can navigate left or right, I can't seem to adjust their values with up or down?

I'm sure I adjusted these before to fix some synch issues.

[FBX]

Also if I may ask, what input are you using? RGB, S-Video, or Composite? NTSC?

RGB. I've tried SNES, Neo Geo and Sega Saturn all at RGB60, all same result.

Update: It seems I got lucky straight away - I just set V_WIDTH to 30, and its perfect.

Cool. Yeah, 30 makes the scanlines off on my end.. Sounds like your Framemeister just has a slightly different hardware build than mine does.

Can someone remind me how I can adjust the 'Synch Time' values?

When I got into this I see three sets of figures and whilst I can navigate left or right, I can't seem to adjust their values with up or down?

I'm sure I adjusted these before to fix some synch issues.

Sync Time values are just for the grace period it gives you for swapping cartridges while the console is turned off (such that it doesn't immediately go black). A value of 100 gives you the most time. However, I discovered it was coded poorly and causes frame sync to skip frames like an emulator does. As such, I always recommend leaving Sync Time at the default value of 3.

[Everblue]

Also if I may ask, what input are you using? RGB, S-Video, or Composite? NTSC?

RGB. I've tried SNES, Neo Geo and Sega Saturn all at RGB60, all same result.

Update: It seems I got lucky straight away - I just set V_WIDTH to 30, and its perfect.

Cool. Yeah, 30 makes the scanlines off on my end.. Sounds like your Framemeister just has a slightly different hardware build than mine does.

I would have thought all Framemeisters would be the same... guess I was er, off

[FBX]

I would have thought all Framemeisters would be the same... guess I was er, off

Yeah it's slightly concerning as I'd hoped all Framemeisters were created equal. With so many of your consoles exhibiting the same behavior, one would tend to think it's the Framemeister hardware being the root issue.

[Everblue]

Thanks a lot for your support, and for your profiles! If it wasn't for what you haven't done for the community, I wouldn't be enjoying my Framemeister anywhere near as much as I do thanks to you.

[mclebron23]

Is there a point in getting the xrgb mini for a modded original Xbox with emulators installed? Will it give me scan lines? Thanks.

[Fudoh]

technically it can, but I don't think it's worth it, since there are much better emu platforms than the original xbox with much greater potential at a much lower price than a FM.

[opt2not]

Is there a point in getting the xrgb mini for a modded original Xbox with emulators installed? Will it give me scan lines? Thanks.

My advice is to find yourself a Neoya X2VGA+


It allows your xbox to output to VGA, then you can get those inexpensive VGA scanline generators like the SLG's.

I used to run this setup at home on an LCD and it worked out really well. Here's a few pictures of running this set-up with Coinops:






The trick is trying to find the X2VGA+ at a decent price.

[mclebron23]

Thanks guys, I'll keep a look out for that adapter.

I also found a Sony pvm locally. 20m4u. Would that be good for a modded Xbox? I'm still confused about what resolution the emus are on my modded Xbox. For example, are the game resolutions what they were originally suppose to be for their original consoles, or are they all 480i/p? Can the resolution be adjusted in the emu settings???

[Ripthorn]

Hey FBX, your NES 4X profile works on video component too?
I don't know why but always appears one thick scanline in the middle of screen.

[Zapf]

Just got in the 32X and found the Genesis universal profiles work perfectly fine for it. So no need to make new ones.

I will say the Mega Everdrive did NOT like working with it though. I managed to get MK II working for like two minutes, and then it crashed. Couldn't get anything else to properly load after that, and I cleaned all the contacts just to be sure. Removing the 32X and using the ME directly in the Genesis worked fine, so it's something about this particular 32X that it doesn't like.

I had a similar issue a few years ago, hes everything I tried http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=33.msg9234

[theclaw]

http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.ph ... ility_List

Doshin the Giant PAL is listed as supporting 60Hz, 480p, and 576p when forced through Swiss.

I only have a Freeloader to launch the game. I don't have any additional hardware. How bad will the stutter be? Would it be more worth it just to get the Japanese NTSC version of the game?

How old is your Freeloader? Apparently, I haven't tried myself, earlier versions could force games to 60Hz. Then the feature was removed at some point.
It's related to a hardware issue: NTSC Gamecubes have wrong color encoding in 50Hz (the digital AV port bypasses this, letting a component cable or other devices fix 50Hz)

[supersoul9]

Setting up a SNES with the Framemeister on an HD (1080p) TV. Without scanlines it looks pretty crisp. However…

With scanlines enabled, I'm getting a really weird looking effect, almost like it's squished.
Here's a photo: http://d.pr/i/I3AL

I have the latest Framemeister firmware installed: 2.0a3
All devices are PAL, and am using CSYNC scart cables from RetroGamingCables.
Tried googling but have found nothing related to my issue

Any ideas on how to fix this… is this the Framemeister or something the TV is doing?

[FBX]

Hey FBX, your NES 4X profile works on video component too?
I don't know why but always appears one thick scanline in the middle of screen.

I don't have access to component, so I'm afraid I cannot check it. I assume this is a mod you have to get component out of NES?

[Ripthorn]

Hey FBX, your NES 4X profile works on video component too?
I don't know why but always appears one thick scanline in the middle of screen.

I don't have access to component, so I'm afraid I cannot check it. I assume this is a mod you have to get component out of NES?

Yep, Tim sells the board on his store.
What setting should I tweak to try to fix this issue?
The SNES and N64 4X profiles do not have this problem.

[FBX]

Yep, Tim sells the board on his store.
What setting should I tweak to try to fix this issue?
The SNES and N64 4X profiles do not have this problem.

Oh you must mean RGB. I thought your were talking about YPbPr component video.

I'll have a look at it here in a few mins. One scanline in the middle being off is going to take some juggling of the V_WIDTH in the VISUAL_SET menu combined with ZOOM_OVERSCAN.

If I may ask, is your modded NES a top-loader or a front-loader? My profiles were based off the front-loader, so it may be a case where I have to borrow a modded top-loader to make separate profiles for.

[Guspaz]

Tim sells a component board for the NESRGB, so he probably is talking about YPbPr component.

[Ripthorn]

Yep, Tim sells the board on his store.
What setting should I tweak to try to fix this issue?
The SNES and N64 4X profiles do not have this problem.

Oh you must mean RGB. I thought your were talking about YPbPr component video.

I'll have a look at it here in a few mins. One scanline in the middle being off is going to take some juggling of the V_WIDTH in the VISUAL_SET menu combined with ZOOM_OVERSCAN.

If I may ask, is your modded NES a top-loader or a front-loader? My profiles were based off the front-loader, so it may be a case where I have to borrow a modded top-loader to make separate profiles for.

I was talking about the YPbPr board
http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=20 ... how_detail
I own a modded AV Famicom. Composhit, S-Video and RGB works fine with the 4X profile. This issue only happen with Video Component.

[theclaw]

Yep, Tim sells the board on his store.
What setting should I tweak to try to fix this issue?
The SNES and N64 4X profiles do not have this problem.

Oh you must mean RGB. I thought your were talking about YPbPr component video.

I'll have a look at it here in a few mins. One scanline in the middle being off is going to take some juggling of the V_WIDTH in the VISUAL_SET menu combined with ZOOM_OVERSCAN.

If I may ask, is your modded NES a top-loader or a front-loader? My profiles were based off the front-loader, so it may be a case where I have to borrow a modded top-loader to make separate profiles for.

Well, all PAL SNES systems output RGB. Nintendo didn't release the redesign mini SNES there.