Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Squire Grooktook]

OTOH, respawning enemies can also make it easier to master a game, if you have the discipline to backtrack and replay tough sections that didn't go smoothly. I saw good results when I started doing this on some of NG1's choke-points (where the level layout allowed it).

I was thinking of constantly spawning enemies rather than respawning enemies, Dragon Fighter doesn't scroll backwards. Stages 1-3 and 5 each have one type of enemy that keeps spawning.

Other games that have this are Mr. Heli and Magician Lord (rank dependent).

Contra and Daimakaimura? I think that fits the description of infinite spawning.

Also you know anything about Magician Lord? I've always been curious if its a good game or not, but never had the time to actually sit down and learn it.

[BIL]

Mr. Heli's Irem stablemate and contemporary Ninja Spirit is a leading cause of infinite spawner-induced PTSD. No escape.

[cicada88]

While you noobs are mastering these obscure japanese action masterpieces, I am trying to loop OG Super Mario Bros. this week.

[Mortificator]

Just so you're not taken off-guard...

Spoiler

the princess is in another castle

[dojo_b]

Thanks BIL! Putting Valken on my todo list.

Gave Metal Warriors a quick try. Promising, although the grandeur of the mech's awesome scale against tiny human fighters is somewhat undercut by the default weapon's sound, pretty much exactly describable as 'pew-pew-pew' (out of my cheap speakers).

While you noobs are mastering these obscure japanese action masterpieces, I am trying to loop OG Super Mario Bros. this week.

Nice. Have gone as far as a basic 1CC myself. I'd love to know if anyone here has mastered SMB2 JP. Makes me cry for joy that a game that tough was once considered mainstream, perhaps even kiddie fare.

[BIL]

NSMB (ninja super mario bros)

[cicada88]

NSMB (ninja super mario bros)

haha too good

[Imhotep]

I've just fired up Magician Lord a few days ago for the first time on MVS. It's different from the home release, no checkpoints.

I love the game to bits, it's an audiovisual masterpiece. The gameplay is ok, but feels a bit stiff and cheap at times. Still, I find the overall experience to be overwhelming. I guess it's a personal thing, but I even think the stage names and the evil man's speech are fitting perfectly in their sense of absoluteness.

As I said it's probably a personal affair, but the game induces a feeling of a fantasy world completely beyond human scale, which I find very thrilling.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Master System version of Captain Silver (Japanese and Euro, NOT the US one) is a pretty good port.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just so you're not taken off-guard...

Spoiler

the princess is in another castle

Spoiler

and we present you a new quest

[BrianC]

Master System version of Captain Silver (Japanese and Euro, NOT the US one) is a pretty good port.

I have the EU one and I like it quite a bit. I took a chance ordering it from a US seller since it was at a good price (box is the EU box with the more cartoony box, but EU carts look just like US ones). The chance worked out and it's definitely not the cut down US port. I was relieved as soon as I saw the witch boss in the first level, which isn't in the US version.

[cicada88]

Is there a difference to the # of loops in NES Life Force and Famicom Salamander?

Also, how many Famicom Gradius 1 / 2 loops are there?

[BIL]

Gun Hazard excels at achieving exactly what it is setting out to do. It's most definitely a typical Squaresoft action RPG and as such heavily balanced toward the RPG elements. If you don't buy proper equipment and level it up, you're going to do measly damage, merely chipping away the health bars of more resilient foes. On the other hand, it is very easy to get obscenely overpowered, especially considering all the curative items you can get in the shops.

Ta, sounds about what I was expecting from the few hours I played - not easy to tell with the much lengthier RPG structure, though. I think I made it to a chemical weapons attack on a village before putting it on the back burner.

Was enjoying the luxuriant presentation for sure, even if the action was a bit samey from mission to mission. Especially liked the variable lighting in the city stages, to simulate buildings blocking the sun - never seen that in a sidescroller before. Will probably pick it up sometime, especially with it being a pretty cheap game (certainly by usual SFC standards).

Is there a difference to the # of loops in NES Life Force and Famicom Salamander?

Also, how many Famicom Gradius 1 / 2 loops are there?

Not sure about any of those, but regarding FC ports: incidentally Contra tracks up to six loops, and I read over at The Cutting Room Floor that Gradius acknowledges the same number in its endings. A bit disappointingly, unlike the aforementioned and Salamander + Gradius II, Super Contra doesn't loop up at all.

[cicada88]

Is there a difference to the # of loops in NES Life Force and Famicom Salamander?

Also, how many Famicom Gradius 1 / 2 loops are there?

Not sure about any of those, but regarding FC ports: incidentally Contra tracks up to six loops, and I read over at The Cutting Room Floor that Gradius acknowledges the same number in its endings. A bit disappointingly, unlike the aforementioned and Salamander + Gradius II, Super Contra doesn't loop up at all.[/quote]

How does it acknowledge the loops? Contra's difficulty and ending don't change through right? I remember 2x looping the Famicom version years ago with no difference in difficulty.

Damn 6x looping Gradius 1 would be hard. I wonder if the difficulty increases each loop or just the ending message.

[BIL]

The evac chopper gains a with every loop, up to six. Looping affects the runner spawn rate, basically. Not sure if the parameters keep rising after the sixth loop. Also, at some point the game will stop giving extends.

>>DETAILZ<<

By around loop 3 the game's spawning so many that it'll start to slow down a little. I frickin looove FC high loop with the spread gun, constant booming Maezawa explosions. Kill count through the mfn roof.

[cicada88]

The evac chopper gains a with every loop, up to six. Looping affects the runner spawn rate, basically. Not sure if the parameters keep rising after the sixth loop. Also, at some point the game will stop giving extends.

>>DETAILZ<<

By around loop 3 the game's spawning so many that it'll start to slow down a little. I frickin looove FC high loop with the spread gun, constant booming Maezawa explosions. Kill count through the mfn roof.

Wow, I never realized it got any harder. Guess I need to 6 loop it someday....ughhhh

[BIL]

Start at stage 8 with the level select cheat to take the edge off. ;3

Actually the game's pretty short, especially if you get a real S+R head of steam going, so even a full six loops isn't *quite* as much of a marathon as it sounds.

[cicada88]

Start at stage 8 with the level select cheat to take the edge off. ;3

Actually the game's pretty short, especially if you get a real S+R head of steam going, so even a full six loops isn't *quite* as much of a marathon as it sounds.

I'm going to attempt it the old fashioned way. 1 CCing SMB 2-Loop was disappointingly easy (never had beaten the 2nd loop before), so I need a new challenge.

I need to get ahold of the VS. Super Mario Bros NES conversion ROM and try that out too.

[dojo_b]

I picked up the SMB1 2-loop 1cc last night, thanks for the nudge. You're right that the second go-round is only faintly more difficult---looping is really just a test of consistency.

On the subject of Mario, I've often wondered why despite SMB1's success, its key feature has been so underused in later (non-Mario) games. I'm talking about the inertial movement based on acceleration/deceleration. This is the main source of challenge, forcing constant subconscious calculation and adjustment; but the challenge is also physically intuitive, which makes it absorbing and satisfying to move through the world as Mario. I find it sad that the Megaman style of constant-speed movement and easy midair adjustment became so much more common, although I see its advantages (less frustrating and allows greater focus on combat).

The relatively stiff and unforgiving physics of SMB1/SMB2 JP (which has been carefully documented) is perhaps less fun for casual play than later games, but it's an excellent basis for simple yet challenging levels, and it's the one that keeps me coming back. Luigi's movement in the 2nd game takes this style to its extreme, and perhaps illustrates why it's not for everyone.

[cicada88]

I picked up the SMB1 2-loop 1cc last night, thanks for the nudge. You're right that the second go-round is only faintly more difficult---looping is really just a test of consistency.

Well, I have to admit it was really fun to revisit this game. It truly is a masterpiece. This was pretty much my first video game. I played it at a friends house and begged for an NES after that. I don't think I had played the original since SMB Deluxe came out on GBC.

There are so many cool details and the entire setting is so surreal. The later games got so much more "cute" compared to this darker first game.

I want to tackle SMB2 JPN at some point.

I agree a true sequel to this game would be cool. How about a game with the same engine and that is pixel for pixel the same as far as graphics, but with an extremely fleshed out level editor. That would be amazing and will never happen.



I also forgot I snapped this picture while playing. I thought this was a cool Trans-Pink pipe.

[dojo_b]

Agreed, the lack of cuteness is a definite plus (though I imagine they would've made it cuter were it not for technology limitations). I find SMB1 Mario to have a sort of flat, hieroglyphic look. Imagine the levels painted on temple walls. He's this ancient champion from a time when a hero's deeds were everything. His inner life, his emotions---inscrutable (except in his death throes). None of this "Wa-hoo!" business.

[cicada88]

Agreed, the lack of cuteness is a definite plus (though I imagine they would've made it cuter were it not for technology limitations). I find SMB1 Mario to have a sort of flat, hieroglyphic look. Imagine the levels painted on temple walls. He's this ancient champion from a time when a hero's deeds were everything. His inner life, his emotions---inscrutable (except in his death throes). None of this "Wa-hoo!" business.

Well, I think for console gamers from that generation the original Mario graphics pretty much have become archetypal symbols, so I can see that parallel.

Another thing I noticed is that the coins look like they almost have a bitmapped metallic texture on them. Something with the color choice/outline and how it appears with CRT glow.

[Pretas]

Agreed, the lack of cuteness is a definite plus (though I imagine they would've made it cuter were it not for technology limitations). I find SMB1 Mario to have a sort of flat, hieroglyphic look. Imagine the levels painted on temple walls. He's this ancient champion from a time when a hero's deeds were everything. His inner life, his emotions---inscrutable (except in his death throes). None of this "Wa-hoo!" business.

Is that you, MovieBob?

[BIL]

Is that you, MovieBob?

Oh hell no, that's the opposite of MovieBob. He'd downplay if not outright lament a wasted opportunity to explore Mario's richly layered character - that remarkable life, informed not only by the identity crises of the second-generation immigrant and the quiet dignity of the stalwart American tradesman, but also an iconoclastic journey from the tough Brooklyn streets to a world of mushroom fantasy that touched children and, indeed, grown men the world over.

I dig that utilitarian, early-years Nintendo FC aesthetic too. Spartan X, Balloon Fight and Excitebike still look great today with their bold colours and economical detailing. Spartan X2 is rather garish to begin with, but particularly shamed by the original's reserve.

Had it received an FC cart release, I'd probably have SMB2J by now. The SFC Collection versions of the first two games annoy me terribly with that bugged brick-breaking destroying the sprinting pace. Not entirely fond of the presentation either. Like the grasslands and starry skies, hate the dated Mario mugshots pasted into secret rooms and the Fairlight MIDIfied Famicom music.

[cicada88]

So I've been relearning Contra the past couple of days in an attempt to loop it 6 times. It took me awhile to get back in the groove of even 1CCing the first loop, and I can see why I thought the difficulty didn't rise on subsequent loops before. Loop 2 doesn't really feel any harder nor did Loop 3. Loop 4, however, is where things seem to really heat up--for me anyway. It seems like there was an exponential leap in action starting on stage 1, enough to cause some some slow down not present on any of the previous massacres.

Unfortunately, I bit the dust in stage 4 of the 4th loop. I wasn't really building up lives like I should be on the first 3 loops, due to rustiness and poor play. It's a bit of a marathon, but after experiencing the intensity of the 4th loop I'm pretty motivated to see what 5 and 6 are like.

[BrianC]

I dig that utilitarian, early-years Nintendo FC aesthetic too. Spartan X, Balloon Fight and Excitebike still look great today with their bold colours and economical detailing. Spartan X2 is rather garish to begin with, but particularly shamed by the original's reserve.

I agree, and not just for first party games. I like the look of early Namco and Konami games, as well.

Had it received an FC cart release, I'd probably have SMB2J by now. The SFC Collection versions of the first two games annoy me terribly with that bugged brick-breaking destroying the sprinting pace. Not entirely fond of the presentation either. Like the grasslands and starry skies, hate the dated Mario mugshots pasted into secret rooms and the Fairlight MIDIfied Famicom music.

At least the VC versions of "Lost Levels" weren't messed with. They even kept the "Super Mario Bros. 2" title intact in game.

[Ghegs]

Had it received an FC cart release, I'd probably have SMB2J by now. The SFC Collection versions of the first two games annoy me terribly with that bugged brick-breaking destroying the sprinting pace. Not entirely fond of the presentation either. Like the grasslands and starry skies, hate the dated Mario mugshots pasted into secret rooms and the Fairlight MIDIfied Famicom music.

At least the VC versions of "Lost Levels" weren't messed with. They even kept the "Super Mario Bros. 2" title intact in game.

Though normally I shun repro carts, I went and picked up a SMB2j repro, the arguably best one that's sadly no longer available. A great piece of work, you can even set the amount of stars in the title screen, so you don't have to play through the game eight times to access the Letter Worlds.

[Ed Oscuro]

Add to the "game reviewers that can't play" files: NintendoComplete. A couple examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXjIcnuxM7g Mad City (obigatory 'review' in the style of "let's describe the things we saw and also this game is hard" here)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbazGWMDwY8 Donald Land

Donald Land's first couple minutes have a really egregious example - a line of pickups at player height lying across the top of a box. Just walk across, right? Instead NintendoComplete insists on trying to jump the whole way and ends up missing the last one on the first go.

Mad City had a lot of little examples of the player obviously not catching onto gameplay nuances and having to just brute-force through.

But this is all somewhat mitigated by the interesting additions. Mad City was not a complete loss because they added translations and also details of some funny stuff you can do at reaching the game's end.

Donald Land looks awful, just awful. I'm trying to figure out the bomb physics; it seems semi-random what it ends up doing (but at least it seems reliable enough to stick and do damage).

[Ghegs]

Mad City is boring and shitty. Looks and sounds nice, but the gameplay is a dreg.

Donald Land is far more interesting. Yes, the bomb physics take some getting used to, but I liked the stages, they have some challenging jumps and other bits to them. I've put the game to my rapidly dwindling to-get list.

[Ed Oscuro]

Tossing the bomb doesn't seem to be a big problem - it's what the animation does that has me confused. Sometimes it sticks to an enemy. Other enemies seem to have a jet of air on top of them, but the bomb still explodes them dead even when it is hovering far overhead (and the horrible NintendoComplete player satisfied my suspicion that the bomb really needs to stick to an enemy to do damage). I'd be ready to put this down to bad emulation, but it seems like a thing Data East might do.

Oh, and I agree about Mad City. Bayou Birry doesn't look improved.