Hello Everyone! I am a Noob who Needs Help

[Broddha]

Hey, my name is ... well I really shouldn't say it on the web. I like to go by Broddha. Recently, I've been interested in playing retro games (I consider anything before the 7th generation retro). My favorite consoles in order include, the GameCube, the PS2, the N64, the PS1, and a last place tie between the SNES and Genesis. As I was saying I've gained interest in playing retro games and I really want to get the absolute BEST quality out of my favorite retro consoles, while maintaining what I call authenticity. By which I mean not using upscalers on LCDs or what have you. Through a little Googling I found this website and read Fudoh's thread on the Sony BVM 20F1U. After looking up the opinions of others on this CRT monitor, I am pretty much convinced that this is the absolute best monitor available for anything before the 480p generation (GC, PS2, XBOX, etc.) Now, I am wondering what are the best options for the 480p, 6th generation consoles? Are the BVM 201Fs still good for these consoles? How can I get the best video quality from those and not use upscalers on LCDs? I don't want to use upscalers because I know LCDs have lag and CRTs don't, and since my favorite genres include fighters, platformers and shooters, lag is a bad thing. So yeah, even though I did spend a week reading up on the subject, I want a direct, definitive answer to my question from anybody with a lot of knowledge on the subject.

[Fudoh]

As kamiboy suggested, a PVM L5 is a good choice if you want 15 and 31khz on the same display and if 20" are large enough for you. I personally would NOT play 480p on a screen of that size.

There are 29" 31khz CRTs available by Sony and NEC (and others). For 480p I only use LCD or plasma screens. Lag isn't an issue if you choose the right model(s) and I don't see any advantage in using a CRT. I owned both a Sony PGM-2950 and a Nec XM29 and still decided for going digital.

[fagin]

And this is where we have levels of subjectiveness imo.

For me..... a 20" CRT for 480p can be sublime (depends on your gaming distance).

So on the flip side to what Fudoh has said.... I own both targets and I prefer CRT given the choice!

[gray117]

... Sure If you've got 480p sources - I can see xm29/bvm or similar monitor being the best; I do prefer 25" or bigger, but a nice 20" could clearly be desk sized and much more easily moved/accomodated. If you're displaying original 15khz games in 31khz in this manner you may want to add a scanline generator, if that's your thing.

However, I believe I'm correct in saying without a transcoder you'll still be dealing with a fair amount of 480i signals, particularly on ps2? [Ignore if you've got a solution for this.]

If you do have 15khz 240p/480i signals to deal with it could be slightly tricky ... personally I can't stand 480i on a crt - authentic or not... personally I transcode this to 480p or plug straight into a decent lcd/plasma (which does it's own de-interlacing) if being lazy.

A tri-sync monitor may seem a good one size-fits all solution, but beware if you don't like strong scanlines this is not the way to go for 240p content.... plus it won't solve 480i issues, if this bothers you.

15khz only monitor/tv are indeed the best solution imho for 240p content

[kamiboy]

By all means, if you can track down a NEC XM29 then that is a perfect blend of large screen size and flexibility, but I imagine an L5 is easier to come by.

In any regard, there is no such thing as universally perfect. There is only perfect for a certain individual, so weigh your options and pick.

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But don't pick LCD.

[Broddha]

Okay so never mind having a perfect TV for both signals. I am going to try to get the L5 for my 6th gen, 480p games. I am also going to keep an eye out for the NEC. Finally, I'll try to get the infamous BVM 20F1U for 240p games. Now, I have a question about 480i signals. Can I play them on any monitor? Or is there a certain thing I should be looking for?

[kamiboy]

For 480p only you have many options. You could just get a quality PC monitor and use a component to VGA converter, but that wont get you 480i. There are also many consumer CRT TV's that do 480p, as to which ones that largely depends on your location in the world.

If you are in north america a SONY CRT HDTV might be a good choice.

As for 480i, I find it is tolerable on any CRT that I own, be it PVM or consumer TV. If the TV is good at 240p, it is good at 480i.

One thing to keep in mind though is that some, maybe all, consumer CRT HDTV's actually don't show 480i (or 240p) as it is meant to be shown because they are incapable of showing interlaced images. So when seeing 480i on such a set it will be flicker free, just like a 480p image, albeit perhaps not as sharp and maybe with some artefacts. 240p on such a set will not have scanlines.

In any regard, if you have your heart set on a BVM A and you can afford one, as well as all the extras to get it to display your games then go for it.

[Broddha]

So I decided that I am going to get the 20F1U for 240p and play 480i on it aswell. As for 480p I decided to buy the L5 while keeping an eye out for the NEC. Thanks guys for helping me out using your insight on the subject. Of course it's going to take a while to get these things in good condition and for a nice price, but when I do it's all going to be worth it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Why would you need a 20F1U and a PVM 20L5?

As far as the 20L5 goes, I like mine...but I think I like my regular Trinitron flat better for 240p actually. 480p60 seems good but I need to give it more time.

[Broddha]

Why would you need a 20F1U and a PVM 20L5?

As far as the 20L5 goes, I like mine...but I think I like my regular Trinitron flat better for 240p actually. 480p60 seems good but I need to give it more time.

I want the best of the best for their respective output. I hear the 20F1U is the best for 240p sources and that the PVM 20L5 is great for 480p sources. So I am buying them both for their respective sources.

[JTF195]

Do the any of the various PVM/BVM (and the NEC) displays mentioned in this support 480p natively or do they require conversion/downscaling?

I've been looking for a professional grade CRT monitor/tv which supports 240p, 480i (15khz) and 480p (31khz) sources natively.

It would also need to have both component (YCbCr) and RGB+sync inputs. (Coax, Composite, S-Video, SCART, VGA, DVI or even HDMI would obviously be nice additions, but aren't strictly necessary)

I've been having trouble finding information. Many of the product descriptions I see on Ebay seem to omit a lot of the relevant details..

[Ed Oscuro]

Do the any of the various PVM/BVM (and the NEC) displays mentioned in this support 480p natively or do they require conversion/downscaling?

I've been looking for a professional grade CRT monitor/tv which supports 240p, 480i (15khz) and 480p (31khz) sources natively.

It would also need to have both component (YCbCr) and RGB+sync inputs. (Coax, Composite, S-Video, SCART, VGA, DVI or even HDMI would obviously be nice additions, but aren't strictly necessary)

I've been having trouble finding information. Many of the product descriptions I see on Ebay seem to omit a lot of the relevant details..

PVM 20L5 has done what I've thrown at it so far: original Xbox in 480p60, PS2 with 240p over component cables, every arcade board I have that works (including weird ones like Raiden II).

Switching from YPbPr and RGB+Sync only requires switching cables (adding RCA to BNC adapters as needed - i.e. the PS2/PS3 component cables will require these) and then switching over from RGB to component in the menu. It's actually a bit of a bother, but sets don't autodetect the difference between RGB and component. You might also need to hit the Sync and H/V Delay buttons. It's really a breeze though.

I haven't tried Neo Geo MVS. As Fudoh has mentioned in the Trading Section recently, not all pro monitors work with that one.

I'm quite happy with mine. The PVM 20L5 doesn't seem to have an odometer, but on the plus side none of them are likely any older than 2002.

[JTF195]

Do the any of the various PVM/BVM (and the NEC) displays mentioned in this support 480p natively or do they require conversion/downscaling?

I've been looking for a professional grade CRT monitor/tv which supports 240p, 480i (15khz) and 480p (31khz) sources natively.

It would also need to have both component (YCbCr) and RGB+sync inputs. (Coax, Composite, S-Video, SCART, VGA, DVI or even HDMI would obviously be nice additions, but aren't strictly necessary)

I've been having trouble finding information. Many of the product descriptions I see on Ebay seem to omit a lot of the relevant details..

PVM 20L5 has done what I've thrown at it so far: original Xbox in 480p60, PS2 with 240p over component cables, every arcade board I have that works (including weird ones like Raiden II).

Switching from YPbPr and RGB+Sync only requires switching cables (adding RCA to BNC adapters as needed - i.e. the PS2/PS3 component cables will require these) and then switching over from RGB to component in the menu. It's actually a bit of a bother, but sets don't autodetect the difference between RGB and component. You might also need to hit the Sync and H/V Delay buttons. It's really a breeze though.

I haven't tried Neo Geo MVS. As Fudoh has mentioned in the Trading Section recently, not all pro monitors work with that one.

I'm quite happy with mine. The PVM 20L5 doesn't seem to have an odometer, but on the plus side none of them are likely any older than 2002.

Okay awesome, but what about the BVM series monitors?
Does the BVM-20F1U support 480p as well?
If so, which of the two typically looks better with 480p content? (and to a lesser degree of importance, 240p/480i)
What sort of inputs are they typically equipped with?

What's the maximum resolution they support?
240p/480i, 480p, 540p/1080i
PC resolutions: 800x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1280x960?

Sorry for all the questions. I've read a lot of conflicting information around the web, like that the PVM series doesn't support 480p at all, for example.

[Fudoh]

Does the BVM-20F1U support 480p as well?

no.

what's the maximum resolution they support? 240p/480i, 480p, 540p/1080i
PC resolutions: 800x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1280x960?

these are broadcast monitors. The 20F1 only supports 240p and 480i. The higher end D or A models also support 480p, 720p and 1080i. No PC resolutions.

like that the PVM series doesn't support 480p at all, for example.

only the L5. All other PVMs only support 15khz.

[JTF195]

The higher end D or A models also support 480p, 720p and 1080i.

If they support 720p, are they 16:9 aspect ratio? or do they simply letterbox it?

Are there any specific BVM D or A models to watch out for?

How well will they perform compared to the PVM-20L5? (For both 480p and 240p/480i)

Again, sorry for all the questions, this just seems like the easiest way to get the answers I'm looking for before I pull the trigger and buy one of these.

[Fudoh]

If they support 720p, are they 16:9 aspect ratio? or do they simply letterbox it?

24" and 32" are 16:9, 20" is 4:3.

Are there any specific BVM D or A models to watch out for?

whatever you can get, if you want one.

How well will they perform compared to the PVM-20L5? (For both 480p and 240p/480i)

If you're lucky and you get a L5 with great geometry and convergence, then they should be pretty close. For videogames I don't see what you would gain by the better color rendition (EBU phosphors) of the BVMs, but the BVMs have considerably more options when it comes to geometry and convergence calibrations.

Again, sorry for all the questions, this just seems like the easiest way to get the answers I'm looking for before I pull the trigger and buy one of these.

I can just repeat the usual: I don't see the need for 480p on a 20" screen. For 480p you can go much larger instead.

[JTF195]

Are there any specific BVM D or A models to watch out for?

whatever you can get, if you want one.

Is this one of them? BVM-D20F1U

I can just repeat the usual: I don't see the need for 480p on a 20" screen. For 480p you can go much larger instead.

I mainly want it for the lower res content, but I would like having the option of running newer consoles (Xbox 360, PS3) on a CRT now and then for the lower latency, without having to run them in 480i
I also don't really want an additional larger CRT taking up space for the relatively few games I would be running in 480p

[Fudoh]

Is this one of them? BVM-D20F1U

yes.