NESRGB board available now

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leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

Jeppen wrote:
nesfreak wrote:McCracAttack, i had it installed on a Win7 and Win8 computer, it wouldnt reconize the "usb-blaster" for me. Tried my old laptop with WinXP 32bit, and it worked instantly.
Though i can't imagine Tim is reprogramming his boards in win xp right?
Why not? A lot of the dev equipment out there came out when only XP was around. So the software stuck. Unless a company is really big chances are new drivers / software only comes out for the newer hardware.

In my case, I do everything in winXP inside a VMware on a MacBook Pro. ;)
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McCracAttack
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by McCracAttack »

CkRtech wrote:It looks like the version that Tim supplied is Quartus II version 11.1.

The Altera website currently has a version 13.1. There is a free version and a licensed version, and the licensed version gives you a 30 day trial.

https://www.altera.com/download/sw/dnl-sw-index.jsp

Newer isn't always better, but perhaps you could give version 13.1 a try. You may need to cleanse your system of 11.1 prior to installing 13.1 - I am not certain. I haven't received a Blaster yet, so I can only make suggestions based on what I see on the web.
Oh man this was so promising! Thank you! The 13.1 programmer that came with the free Web Edition bundle can see the USB Blaster just fine! But now I'm getting a new error message.

Code: Select all

Info (209060): Started Programmer operation at Thu Jan 30 22:24:25 2014
Error (209040): Can't access JTAG chain
Error (209053): Unexpected error in JTAG server -- error code 44
Error (209012): Operation failed
Info (209061): Ended Programmer operation at Thu Jan 30 22:24:25 2014
More fiddling. But it certainly seems like Windows 7 users need the newer software and drivers than what Tim provided.

Update: Okay, I get the exact same error message when I unplug the USB Blaster from the board so it looks like my custom connector needs work.

Update 2: I've check and recheck the connections and as near as I can tell they're sound. Back to fiddling I guess. :cry:

Update 3: SUCCESS!!! According to this article some of the pins are powered by the target device. The NES had to be plugged in and turned on in order for the reprogramming to work. And work it did! The problem seems 100% fixed now! Though I guess people who were planning to reprogram boards before they installed them will have to find a way to power them first.

Thanks to nesfreak and CkRtech for your help. Hopefully someone else will learn from my mistakes.
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

Awesome!!
Zets13
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Zets13 »

Glad to hear it. Got antsy and went ahead and ordered a USB Blaster tonight, hopefully it will get here soon and be able to help anybody in my area who needs it, assuming it arrives before Tim gets the plan arranged. I saw the pinout posted earlier, and from the looks of it I don't think it will be hard to build a custom harness, but I seem to have a knack for screwing up the simplest of tasks, so we'll see...
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Vigormortis
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Vigormortis »

I found a thread on Altera Forums about the USB Blaster detection issue on 11.1 sp2 32 bit running on 64 bit Windows. Here's a post with a solution to the problem. This method may be useful if you don't feel like registering at Altera's website. It also involves less data to download. I'm still waiting for my USB Blaster, so I can't confirm whether this method works yet.
nesfreak
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by nesfreak »

EDIT: If you have Viletims programmer, this does not apply to you!

McCracAttack, you need to power the NESRGB board when programming it.

You are so close now =)

1. Connect the JTAG interface, VCC should go to 3.3v on the NESRGB.
2. REMOVE EVERYTHING but the power from the NES, NO CARTRIDGE in it!
3. Turn the NES power on and program it.

EDIT: If you have Viletims programmer, this does not apply to you!
Last edited by nesfreak on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nesfreak
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by nesfreak »

McCracAttack, didnt see your success first! Congrats!

Glad i could help!
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

McCracAttack wrote: Update 3: SUCCESS!!! According to this article some of the pins are powered by the target device. The NES had to be plugged in and turned on in order for the reprogramming to work. And work it did! The problem seems 100% fixed now! Though I guess people who were planning to reprogram boards before they installed them will have to find a way to power them first.

Thanks to nesfreak and CkRtech for your help. Hopefully someone else will learn from my mistakes.
Thanks for sharing the experience. I would have thought that software released in 2012 would have been compatible with windows 7 but it seems I uploaded a lemon version. I did try it but still I run XP myself.

I'm uploading the V13.1 stand alone programmer to my website at the moment. It should be ready to download in a couple of hours.

The PLD on the NESRGB board does need power while being programmed. The programmers I have sent out have all been modified to power the board while programming it.
kamiboy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by kamiboy »

Sumez wrote: If I do manage to get my hands on a USB blaster, I still want dips ;)
Well, I just got an email offering me either a replacement ram chip or usb blaster sent from one of the swedish customers.

Now is the time, lad, if you want this board say so and I'll reply to the email asking for the blaster to be sent directly to you instead.
Jeppen
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Jeppen »

McCracAttack wrote:
CkRtech wrote:It looks like the version that Tim supplied is Quartus II version 11.1.

The Altera website currently has a version 13.1. There is a free version and a licensed version, and the licensed version gives you a 30 day trial.

https://www.altera.com/download/sw/dnl-sw-index.jsp

Newer isn't always better, but perhaps you could give version 13.1 a try. You may need to cleanse your system of 11.1 prior to installing 13.1 - I am not certain. I haven't received a Blaster yet, so I can only make suggestions based on what I see on the web.
Oh man this was so promising! Thank you! The 13.1 programmer that came with the free Web Edition bundle can see the USB Blaster just fine! But now I'm getting a new error message.

Code: Select all

Info (209060): Started Programmer operation at Thu Jan 30 22:24:25 2014
Error (209040): Can't access JTAG chain
Error (209053): Unexpected error in JTAG server -- error code 44
Error (209012): Operation failed
Info (209061): Ended Programmer operation at Thu Jan 30 22:24:25 2014
More fiddling. But it certainly seems like Windows 7 users need the newer software and drivers than what Tim provided.

Update: Okay, I get the exact same error message when I unplug the USB Blaster from the board so it looks like my custom connector needs work.

Update 2: I've check and recheck the connections and as near as I can tell they're sound. Back to fiddling I guess. :cry:

Update 3: SUCCESS!!! According to this article some of the pins are powered by the target device. The NES had to be plugged in and turned on in order for the reprogramming to work. And work it did! The problem seems 100% fixed now! Though I guess people who were planning to reprogram boards before they installed them will have to find a way to power them first.

Thanks to nesfreak and CkRtech for your help. Hopefully someone else will learn from my mistakes.

Great post, thanks for sharing!
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

For anyone who wants expansion audio on the AV Fami with their NESRGB, here's the steps on how to do it:

1: Cut the traces for both pins 45 and 46 on the cartridge port.
2: Solder a 47k ohm resistor on pin 46.
3: Solder a wire from the other end of the resistor to the two resistors on the NESRGB (the picture of which is in this thread).
4: Enjoy.
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Fudoh
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Fudoh »

What's the advantage of modding the audio part for this ? Strictly talking about the AV Famicom of course where you already got audio along with the expansion channels on the Multi-AV anyway ?
eightbitminiboss
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by eightbitminiboss »

Fudoh wrote:What's the advantage of modding the audio part for this ? Strictly talking about the AV Famicom of course where you already got audio along with the expansion channels on the Multi-AV anyway ?
I'm assuming it's to take advantage of the NESRGB's audio amp.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

eightbitminiboss wrote:
Fudoh wrote:What's the advantage of modding the audio part for this ? Strictly talking about the AV Famicom of course where you already got audio along with the expansion channels on the Multi-AV anyway ?
I'm assuming it's to take advantage of the NESRGB's audio amp.
That's right. I kinda thought that would be obvious...
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Fudoh
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Fudoh »

from a technical point it was obvious, yes. But is it worth it ? Any audible difference compared to the "stock audio" on the AVF ?
kamiboy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by kamiboy »

Indeed, I am curious about this myself. Seems like a lot of extra modding work, but at what benefit?

Is the difference audible, or is it merely theoretical?
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

I think the AV Famicom had weaker audio output compared to earlier originals. I suppose you can kill two birds with one stone by using the amp on the NESRGB.

Take a look at this. http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index ... pic=7408.0
Zets13
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Zets13 »

Yeah I've noticed that the special sounds in FDS games tend to be really loud relative to the regular audio. Might try modding it....
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Fudoh wrote:from a technical point it was obvious, yes. But is it worth it ? Any audible difference compared to the "stock audio" on the AVF ?
I had the same concerns, but now I can say that it's definitely better than the original audio. There's less interference, better treble, and the external audio is more balanced. There's really not much to it and it's worth the little extra effort.
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Fudoh
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Fudoh »

sounds excellent, thanks for the confirmation!
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opt2not
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by opt2not »

viletim wrote: The PLD on the NESRGB board does need power while being programmed. The programmers I have sent out have all been modified to power the board while programming it.
Could you provide any details about modding those programmers?
I'm probably going to order one this weekend, but would like to know what you did to mod the programmers so I have the option of not needing to install it beforehand.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

CkRtech wrote:I think the AV Famicom had weaker audio output compared to earlier originals. I suppose you can kill two birds with one stone by using the amp on the NESRGB.

Take a look at this. http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index ... pic=7408.0
I currently have an AV Famicom on loan from Max in Germany. I have it for the purposes of making an installation guide...which I haven't quite got around to yet. Anyway I just measured the audio signal at the mixing point of the AV Famicom and compared it with my original Famicom. The amplitude of the audio signal of the original Famicom is twice the size of the one in the AV Famicom. ie. the volume is 6 dB louder at the mixing point.

From what I gather, Akumajo Densetsu really is the only one cartridge of interest that uses Famicom the audio mixing feature. The are a couple of others but because they're in Japanese, they are of little interest to westerners. The is one other game that uses the feature, Gimmick!, but it is so rare that people only ever use flash cartridges to play it.

In order to support the expansion audio in these two games, I need to actually support three pieces of hardware: Akumajo Densetsu cartridge, Powerpak Flash cartridge, Everdrive N8 Flash cartridge. All three of these bits of hardware are doing things differently (volume levels, output pins, etc). This the reason why I can't really manage much more than 'no comment' when asked about it (at least for the time being).
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

opt2not wrote:
viletim wrote: The PLD on the NESRGB board does need power while being programmed. The programmers I have sent out have all been modified to power the board while programming it.
Could you provide any details about modding those programmers?
I'm probably going to order one this weekend, but would like to know what you did to mod the programmers so I have the option of not needing to install it beforehand.
I simply installed a 3.3V LDO voltage regulator and connected the output to pin 4 (VCC sense).
Image

You don't need to do this if you can find another way to power the board. Either by applying 3.3V to the JTAG port power terminals or +5V to the power input solder pads (near J3).
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

viletim wrote:From what I gather, Akumajo Densetsu really is the only one cartridge of interest that uses Famicom the audio mixing feature. The are a couple of others but because they're in Japanese, they are of little interest to westerners. The is one other game that uses the feature, Gimmick!, but it is so rare that people only ever use flash cartridges to play it.
There's still plenty of other games that use external audio, and a large number of Famicom Disk System games also use it. I certainly wouldn't call Akumajou Densetsu the only game of interest that uses it.
viletim wrote:I need to actually support three pieces of hardware: Akumajo Densetsu cartridge, Powerpak Flash cartridge, Everdrive N8 Flash cartridge.
Don't forget about the FDS and all other games that use external audio.
Zets13
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Zets13 »

I'm not really sure what the connector is on the JTAG cable, so I was curious if it is possible to reuse the end of that cable that connects to the blaster when making a custom cable, or if it is necessary to make the whole cable from scratch. I understand the best way to make the end that connects to the NESRGB and already have headers that I will use, but I'm not sure about the other end.

And yeah, if you play FDS, expansion audio is used some even in popular games like Adventure of Link and YK: Doki Doki Panic. Maybe even the first zelda, but I can't recall.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Zets13 wrote:Maybe even the first zelda, but I can't recall.
It uses it a ton, including the title screen music and a good chunk of the sound effects.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

ApolloBoy wrote:
viletim wrote:I need to actually support three pieces of hardware: Akumajo Densetsu cartridge, Powerpak Flash cartridge, Everdrive N8 Flash cartridge.
Don't forget about the FDS and all other games that use external audio.
Right. I forgot about that thing. So there's four different pieces of hardware (well, I at least hope that the the Akumajo Densetsu cartridge and FDS will be the same, technically)....
Zets13 wrote:I'm not really sure what the connector is on the JTAG cable, so I was curious if it is possible to reuse the end of that cable that connects to the blaster when making a custom cable, or if it is necessary to make the whole cable from scratch. I understand the best way to make the end that connects to the NESRGB and already have headers that I will use, but I'm not sure about the other end.
The programmer comes with a short 10p IDC ribbon cable. I cut off one end and solder the wire to little piece of phenolic board with the 6p header mounted. I put tape over it afterwards which I have removed for the photo.
Image
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Will that header be secure in the NESRGB without having to solder a socket?
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Vigormortis
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Vigormortis »

Expansion audio on the Famicom is a wonderfully confusing mess :P

As Tim mentioned, the internal audio from the AV Famicom (and GPM motherboard Famicoms) at the cartridge slot's audio mixing pin is lower volume than the internal audio from the older Famicom models. The result of this is that the expansion audio mix sounds terrible on the AV Famicom.

But, to complicate matters, the Everdrive N8's expansion audio is lower volume than geniune carts and the Famicom Disk System. The Everdrive's expansion audio actually sounds pretty well balanced on the AV Famicom, but sounds too quiet on original Famicoms. I suspect the Everdrive N8's expansion audio level may have been set with the AV Famicom in mind because Krikkz's demonstration videos always showed an AV Famicom.

Basically, what this means for the NESRGB expansion audio mod on a Famicom is that you would need two different resistor values and a selector switch - a lower resistance for the Everdrive, and a higher resistance for genuine expansion audio carts and the Famicom Disk.

I'll buy a 100k potentiometer from Radio Shack tomorrow and I'll try to figure out the ideal resistance values for both my Everdrive and my Akumajou Densetsu cart. I'll use this video of Level 1's music on a Twin Famicom as my reference for the proper mix volume.

It would be a whole lot easier if Krikkz could just increase the Everdrive's expansion audio volume via software to match genuine carts. Then there would be no need for wiring up a switch for different resistances.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Vigormortis wrote:I suspect the Everdrive N8's expansion audio level may have been set with the AV Famicom in mind because Krikkz's demonstration videos always showed an AV Famicom.
You can actually change this by going into the Everdrive's options menu.
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