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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:10 pm 


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ok, here's my first experiences... I posted this elsewhere and have contacted hucast themselves..


"I have perhaps stumbled across a score bonus on the first boss? or another bug like they had in the first game?

I've played a few credits only and check out my 2 score differences. The higher one I achieved simply by tucking myself underneath the top arm of the first boss. Granted i died but i received a sound indication and this insane score jump".

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I've tried twice to repeat the same action how i got the score and the game has crashed as soon as i hit that spot under the bosses arm :/
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:15 pm 



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It looks dire in 240p mode and just as bad in 480p.

Disappointing to say the least.
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:01 pm 


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Comparison shot between the two. I did absolutely no editing on the images, those are directly from the footage I captured.
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:17 pm 


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Sadly this happens every time in this area on the first boss. Redux 1.5?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=46 ... =2&theater
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:19 pm 


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Ghegs wrote:
Comparison shot between the two. I did absolutely no editing on the images, those are directly from the footage I captured.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:24 pm 


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in essence, we kickstarted the re-release of a previously existing game, augmented by 1 stage I believe?
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:30 pm 


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EllertMichael wrote:
Ghegs wrote:
Comparison shot between the two. I did absolutely no editing on the images, those are directly from the footage I captured.

Image


:lol: :twisted: :(
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:41 pm 


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Weird, the trailer don't look blurry. On the other hand are 1.5 and Redux same game, just that Redux has more effects and stuff happening? It looks like it, when I look at the comparison image :D
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:28 pm 


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Free 1.5 update disk of Redux incoming !


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:15 pm 


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Casey120 wrote:
Free 1.5 update disk of Redux incoming !


I think that would be the only solution. It'll take months to happen though. I cannot believe how fuzzy it looks.
It kind of looks like that the developers have added fake scan lines or something. Dux 1.5 looks nice and crisp. Even the logos when the game starts up are far sharper on Dux 1.5.
Very dissapointing for a game that has taken so long to arrive.


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:23 pm 



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CMcK wrote:
Very disappointing for a game that has taken so long to arrive.


Well - this was a Kickstarter project after all. And software doesn't get better by itself overtime - somebody has to put some effort into it, effort that might be applied more profitably elsewhere. So as it takes longer and longer to get something out of the door the less likely it is that anything will actually get finished. At least something shipped (12 months late) in this case.

I find that if you approach crowd-funding and indie projects with a "brick and mortar retail" mentality that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. The original funding goal of $25000 seemed low for the goal of putting a "new coat of paint" on the DC version AND porting the game over to iOS by a separate corporate entity: KTX Software. Even $53,121 isn't a lot of money to pay ? people for 6 months, much less 18 months. So as it is here we have the "new coat of paint" DC version - it is unclear if there ever will be an iOS version and the demo is the only PC version in existence.
Ideally the full PC version would have been released first where it is easy (and cheap - depending on the service) to issue patches. Its arguable whether demand for the iOS version is even worth the effort (the draw of the potential of millions of app sales is understandable - but only a handful of apps actually reach "Angry Birds" proportions). Then when everything has settled the (physical) DC version could have been released. But as it was the DC version was the blueprint for everything else - and the physical/non-patchable version was released "first".

While it is reasonable to expect a free patch, I think it is unreasonable to expect a free patched copy and shipping - that is simply the nature of the beast. So if there is a Redux 1.5 in 12 to 18 months time I think Redux 1.0 owners should expect a nominal fee for the replacement disk and shipping. Its not going to happen anytime soon as he is now shifting his attention to Ghost Blade. So now is the time to find anymore problems with Redux 1.0.

Frankly I wonder if he should enact a "Ghost Blade early access program" for select customers who have already paid for their copy AND are willing to pay for shipping of the early access copies in order to avoid this happening with Ghost Blade 1.0.


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:45 pm 



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Should cancel "preparing order" from PlayAsia?
Should cancel "preparing order" from PlayAsia.

How's it look through a CRT?


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:35 pm 


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Still looks very fuzzy on a CRT. I have tried it on my E3001 chassis Loewe and a Ikegami broadcast monitor via RGB scart.

I emailed Hucast and received this response -

Hi,
we had discussed this on Facebook. Redux does not looks as clean as DUX 1.5 since we used compression method to fit the Game into Dreamcast vram.
I'm sorry though that you dont like the result.

The game looks best with VGA box if that helps you.

-Hucast


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:55 pm 


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So will Kickstarter do anything about this? It seems that they've released a product (late) that isn't at all what was advertised. It's a shittier version of a previous release (one that most of those of us who backed it for $100 are still waiting to play as well), doesn't include more levels (which was a stretch goal reward), and can not really be considered a "new shmup" by any traditional understanding of the word. (They claim "REDUX is a new shmup for the Sega Dreamcast/iOS brought to you by one of the guys who created GunLord, Fast Striker, Last Hope and DUX.").

Furthermore, if they communicated important details on Facebook...well that is sneaky at best - they should have made those kinds of announcements to the backers via Kickstarter. Their communication has been dodgy throughout.

I certainly wouldn't have bought the game if I knew it was essentially Dux 2.0, given that I disliked Dux 1.0. I figured 1.5 would be worth checking out...but a new game was what I wanted and what they led everyone to believe they were signing up for. I feel like I paid $100 for a soundtrack and two patches to a game I didn't like, one of which made the game even worse.
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:39 pm 


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This is really gutting news,wish I hadn't ordered the the LE now...
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:02 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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Oh and I forgot to mention that for the DC's capabilities, the jerky scrolling is unforgiveable.

Sorry to bring further bad news.



On the plus side I find the gameplay "OK". :o
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:35 pm 


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Quote:
we had discussed this on Facebook. Redux does not looks as clean as DUX 1.5 since we used compression method to fit the Game into Dreamcast vram. I'm sorry though that you dont like the result.

statements like these make it really hard for me to stay a fan of projects like these. I really don't mind spending $100 on a new DC doujin once or twice a year and I certainly don't expect the most polished products out there, but quality control and communication (or the lack of those) are two things which really drive me away. So, with previous screenshots and trailers looking perfectly fine, the above statement isn't an excuse for the blur filter they decided to apply for whatever reason. The game now looks like 240p instead of 480p, but then re-upped to 480p using a terrible scaling algorithm. And of course this means that Ghost Blade will look equally shitty and nothing like the snapshots either. And since when's "we mentioned this on facebook" an excuse for anything ?

That's an overall attitude towards all the supporters which I cannot stand and I think it's best Rene ceases to invest his time and our money into future projects (well, after Ghost Blade that is).


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:40 pm 



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Quote:
Redux does not looks as clean as DUX 1.5 since we used compression method to fit the Game into Dreamcast vram.


fagin wrote:
Oh and I forgot to mention that for the DC's capabilities, the jerky scrolling is unforgivable.


Let me guess - the lossy decompression not only impairs the picture quality but also siphons enough to CPU time to impair scrolling - one decision, double penalty.

fagin wrote:
On the plus side I find the gameplay "OK". :o


Better or worse than "Sturmwind"? Ultimately that is the comparison that is going to come up.


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:46 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
we had discussed this on Facebook. Redux does not looks as clean as DUX 1.5 since we used compression method to fit the Game into Dreamcast vram. I'm sorry though that you dont like the result.

statements like these make it really hard for me to stay a fan of projects like these. I really don't mind spending $100 on a new DC doujin once or twice a year and I certainly don't expect the most polished products out there, but quality control and communication (or the lack of those) are two things which really drive me away. So, with previous screenshots and trailers looking perfectly fine, the above statement isn't an excuse for the blur filter they decided to apply for whatever reason. The game now looks like 240p instead of 480p, but then re-upped to 480p using a terrible scaling algorithm. And of course this means that Ghost Blade will look equally shitty and nothing like the snapshots either. And since when's "we mentioned this on facebook" an excuse for anything ?

That's an overall attitude towards all the supporters which I cannot stand and I think it's best Rene ceases to invest his time and our money into future projects (well, after Ghost Blade that is).


That is fairly harsh but fair imo. I've just recorded and doing the edit for a YT review video and I actually felt bad for saying what I did say. I'm not on my own though.
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:48 pm 



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HydrogLox wrote:
fagin wrote:
On the plus side I find the gameplay "OK". :o


Better or worse than "Sturmwind"? Ultimately that is the comparison that is going to come up.


I wouldn't ask me that question..... I didn't think Sturmwind was "all that good" either. :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:15 pm 


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a technical question nevertheless (since I didn't get mine yet): if you apply scanlines, can you make the scanlines cover the blurry lines, while the "good" ones stay visible ? Kinda the same thing you do on a linedoubler's output where (between odd and even scanlines) one looks ace, while the other setting looky muddy ?


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:05 pm 



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I was intending to try that with the SLG, but then couldn't be bothered to pull all my shit out.

It's noticeably better and better still using a proper 31khz CRT!
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:52 pm 



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I've just been informed that Ghost Blade will be using a different engine and will be sharp!
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:00 pm 



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To confirm the best option for sharpness in this game, you should be using VGA (480p) output from the DC into a SLG device (tested with the SLG3000).
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:57 am 



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fagin wrote:
I've just been informed that Ghost Blade will be using a different engine and will be sharp!


Does it even matter at this point? Stop giving money to this clown.


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:39 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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You are all getting your copies of the game? I just sent s message to hucast asking where mine is...


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:03 pm 


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Where are you based?

Mine arrived on Friday and I'm in the UK. Which is probably the fastest anything has arrived from anywhere else in Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:16 pm 


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Which version of the game did you order? I went for the steel book LE and it hasn't arrived yet but regular editions have been sent out (from where I ordered from)
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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:28 pm 



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
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Oh man, that's unfortunate. The developer has done many great things, it would be sad if it got so much bad press that this would prevent further titles from coming.

I read a not so bad review on jeuxvideo.com (14 out of 20).

I love the work done on the ngdev titles and the next hucast one is very promising as well.

I wonder why this Redux turned out to be that misleading... Apparently there's 1 new stage, 1 new ship and a different gameplay. Better GFX but a lower resolution... Is the soundtrack nice ? It's important too ! (it is a different one right ?)

Waiting for some more reviews...


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 Post subject: Re: Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:30 pm 


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Just played Redux on my DC. WTF! Never again will I kickstart anything from them again, that's just unbelievable how they piss on their customers!

My guess is they just completely overestimated their abilities, how did they ever think such a small development studio can make three games at once? (Neo Xyx, Ghost Blade, Redux)
So with already a year(?) behind their schedule, they just decided to give Dux a (questionable) makeover and ship it out and ditched what was originally planned for Redux...
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