USA Buyers only?

[broken harbour]

Can someone explain to me why so many people are afraid to ship outside the USA?
Is it extra difficult or something in America?

In Canada, I can ship stuff easily to anywhere in the world, I do it almost weekly, I just line up at the post office, say “ship it to the place it says on the label”, pay money, and it gets there.
Occasionally I have to fill out 2 fields in a form with the value and whats inside the box, and then sign it, and that’s it. It takes literally no effort or extra time.

Just curious because I see good deals on this forum, and other places, and so many say “USA BUYERS ONLY!!!!”

I just don’t get why.

[Damocles]

I would imagine it's mostly to do with trust issues. I've never had an issue with "lost" packages, but those stories are fairly common, with certain countries being notorious about it.

[Some-Mist]

I don't sell and probably wouldn't have any issues with selling outside the states, but I'd assume it might have something to do with import/custom taxes and cost + item declaration. I've never had to deal with any of that... but aren't those potential issues/situations/costs that a seller might have to deal with out of pocket?

I know there isn't really any import/custom taxes for incoming packages in the US nor for packages sent within the US.

might also be something completely different, but that's my guess.

[Vexorg]

I've shipped internationally on a number of occasions, and although the packages have always reached my destination, I often found myself paying twice as much for shipping as I expected to.

[CStarFlare]

I always watch my items closely to make sure they get there. International is a longer wait, so it puts me on edge. I also worry about an increased risk of damage, etc.

I still ship internationally (it's only right, since I buy from international buyers), but I'm certainly less comfortable with it.

[broken harbour]

import taxes and stuff are up to the guy receiving the package (ha!).

They can be totally avoided if the sender declares it a gift.

Tracking a package is easy, I only ever had one go missing ever, and that was to the middle east, so, no surprise there.

Shipping can be expensive, but you can get a quote, or make the buyer pay it.

Maybe people think it's way harder than it really is?

[Casey120]

I see no problem if you use fully insured shipping with tracking but it's more expensive .
You can send undervalued/gift and cheap as long as both are clear it's all on the buyer if anything goes wrong .
Also customs are always on the buyer, I have seen many occasions when a buyer complains about customs fees and gets pissed at the seller which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[brentsg]

I'm choosy when it comes to international deals. I've had numerous customs hassles for one.. I've also had a lot of people who don't want insurance, etc.. and they want the item valued far lower than actual. I have to be pretty comfortable that I know the buyer accepts that risk. Too many people will just do a Paypal chargeback when something goes wrong under those conditions.

I'd also estimate that 75% of the international shipping quotes I've bothered with have been rejected like I'm an asshole. Stuff's expensive to ship and a waste of time when the buyer flakes out.

Lastly, a lot of EU buyers are bargain shopping here. When they get tired of it they'll flip it at some ridiculous sum, so I'd prefer to keep my best stuff local.

[drauch]

Mainly the annoyance and hassle.

[Crafty+Mech]

Lastly, a lot of EU buyers are bargain shopping here. When they get tired of it they'll flip it at some ridiculous sum, so I'd prefer to keep my best stuff local.

I've been wondering why boards seem to go for 2X or 3X the US market value in the EU. Weak US dollar, etc. aside, is it simply lack of supply that drives up the prices? For some rare boards I can understand, but even for fairly common boards (at least in the US) like 1943, asking $150 doesn't seem that unusual (the last 1943 I bought off eBay was $50 shipped).

Not trying to start a pricing discussion, just curious about the differential between US & EU pricing.

[cools]

Laziness and fear.

[Ed Oscuro]

A lot of it is down to one form of ignorance or another.

One form of ignorance is "I heard it's really difficult." I guess you can say that's laziness. All it usually takes is picking up a different box at the P.O., no big deal.

Another form is that somebody heard a scare story or had a bad situation with one person in one country and so they are reluctant to go from there.

In a perfect world you'd say that the second case is a matter of extrapolating from one data point, but actually it probably makes more sense in some cases. If there is one person you're really desperate to avoid dealing with, and the market is a small one, they may be the only person from that country.

Of course I think it's wrong for people to say "I don't want to ship to Italy, or Brazil, or Tennessee." If your sales are being stalked by a bad person usually you can spot them from a ways off and just ignore that.

All that being said, everything brentsg said is completely valid. To that I could add that once I had somebody from a South American country try to get a free video card off me (they didn't succeed but it was a pain and still ended up costing me a lot of money because those things depreciate in value quickly).

[broken harbour]

I get it, but it's not like Canada is a 3rd world country. I'd be leery of sending stuff to Ukraine, russia, Iraq, etc...

But canada?

[gct]

Laziness and fear.

Those are my reasons, simply.

I won't offer a fixed shipping overseas - buyer must pay full cost. So they ask me for a quote, I pack it up and hoof it over to the post office for a quote, comes back and it's like $60 for something tracked, buyer says No F'in way. It's still like $30 for something non-tracked and takes 3 months to arrive, and both the buyer and I are anxious about whether it will ever get there. So now I just don't bother, and primarily just do tracked service to North America which doesn't cost a significant portion (or more than) the item's value.

[professor ganson]

At my post office it's a pain to ship outside the US. There's always a special customs form. In fact, there's two forms, and I don't know for sure which one I have to fill out until I've waited in line and talk to the post officer. Then they send you away to fill out the form, and you have to wait again-- fortunately you don't have to get back to the end of the line. The form is annoying, and then some of the post officers make you stand there and wait while they type all of the info on the form into a computer. It's really absurd.

Where the US system is good is in delivering pretty efficiently. USPS priority shipping is pretty reliable overall, and pretty fast. One thing that has bugged me about shipping to other countries is just how slow some of those countries are with their deliveries, especially when customs gets involved.

For these reasons I prefer shipping within the US. At the same time I make lots of exceptions for friends here.

[Xyga]

When I buy from a US or Canadian seller I know in advance about the shipping costs, time it takes, and potential customs fee I'll have to pay.
So I don't bother them with all this, I just pay the price and wait. Never had a lost or broken package with USPS or Canada Post (just had to pay customes once, too bad but that's my problem).
People who want better tracking and insurance should ask for FedEx or UPS, it's quite easy if the buyer is ready to pay the extra and both parties will feel more comfortable/safe. Frankly there's no risk, no hassle, it's just f* expensive.

[BulletMagnet]

So they ask me for a quote, I pack it up and hoof it over to the post office for a quote, comes back and it's like $60 for something tracked, buyer says No F'in way. It's still like $30 for something non-tracked and takes 3 months to arrive, and both the buyer and I are anxious about whether it will ever get there.

This has happened to me on occasion; I still ship internationally, but it is kind of a pain to pack up the box the way it's going to be shipped, hoof it down to the post office to have it weighed, and pass along the various options to the buyer only to have them back out. It's not that I blame them for doing so, as it can get pretty darn expensive, but it is a fair amount of extra work with no guaranteed payoff, so I can understand why some would rather not bother.

[SuperGrafx]

I avoid shipping and internationally whenever possible.
Too much of a hassle. I have a full time job that keeps me plenty busy...when it comes to packages, I like to get everything prepped and packed the night before, drop by the post office in the morning and not mess around with intl slips and customs forms.

[mortified_penguin]

Because every time I'm asked to ship a board to Canada I have to underwrite the value and do all sorts of shenanigans just so you don't pay through the nose and decide you don't want it. I'll send something to China waaaay before Canada.

[GaijinPunch]

It cums down to a lot of things -- mainly laziness. It's really minimal extra effort (even in Japan), and takes only a few more minutes for the forms, yet broadens your buyer base many fold. If you have a ruler and a scale, you can calculate shipping on USPS.com. Ebay has introduced a system to streamline international shipping, but a small package will cost you $50 to ship over the pond. Stupid.

in Japan's case, the bigger issue is the cultural barrier (and I understand why many J-sellers opt out of international shipping) as well as the huge hassle of getting the money to the seller. Paypal's user base is tiny here.

Then again, I shouldn't complain. I've made a successful side business on those people's inability to internationalize.

[chempop]

There are lots of reasons, and most of them are valid.

1) Must use twice as much packaging materials to be certain the goods won't be damaged.

2) Don't have to deal with whiny buyers who want you to declare low value (thus screwing up the chance of having insurance be able to cover the actual cost in case something goes wrong).

3) don't have to spend X4 the cost on shipping and wait X3 as long before the money is available to really spend.
(a seller should never spend the money from a deal before the buyer is happy with the item)

4) don't have to kiss goodbye to a game that will likely sit on a shelf in a collection and then later be sold for twice as much.

but a small package will cost you $50 to ship over the pond. Stupid.

It might sound crazy, but I was quoted over $50 via USPS express to send a small box (jewel case + bubblewrap size) to france with insurance and tracking.

[GaijinPunch]

1) Must use twice as much packaging materials to be certain the goods won't be damaged.

Depends on the item. A CD/DVD cased game should be fine in a padded envelope.

2) Don't have to deal with whiny buyers who want you to declare low value (thus screwing up the chance of having insurance be able to cover the actual cost in case something goes wrong).

Kinda... if something goes awry, and you get successfully charged back, you're going to lose the amount of the sale, not what you write on the invoice. The buyer should be aware of this, and the seller should remind them.

3) don't have to spend X4 the cost on shipping and wait X3 as long before the money is available to really spend.
(a seller should never spend the money from a deal before the buyer is happy with the item)

This is a fault of Ebay/PP empire, not shipping. Buyers have too many freedoms w/ PP, IMHO. Unscrupulous ones can really game the system. The seller should be spending exactly $0 on shipping, so the first part of the argument doesn't hold. It takes longer, but as long as it's not surface it doesn't take that long. Japan's EMS prices are extremely fair, and I realize it's much worse in other parts of the world...especially Europe. But if the buyer is willing to pony up, the seller should accommodate, IMHO. Then again, I've kept my business to a small community (this one, mainly) for most of the 15 years I've done it, and cut out Ebay in the early naughties.

4) don't have to kiss goodbye to a game that will likely sit on a shelf in a collection and then later be sold for twice as much.

Who the fuck cares what they do with it? They paid for it. The arguments I made extends far beyond games though.

It might sound crazy, but I was quoted over $50 via USPS express to send a small box (jewel case + bubblewrap size) to france with insurance and tracking.

Yeah, if you go in dry, international shipping from the US gets crazy for small items. It becomes cost-effective somewhere in the 2-pound area. My mom sends me rather large care packages for $50... similar to what an item from Japan would cost. I like Japan's system, as you can add tracking to anything international for just under $5. It's an international system so not sure why the US doesn't have something like that.

[chempop]

Who the fuck cares what they do with it? They paid for it.

Not if you don't sell it to them in the first place

It is a pretty well known fact that most valuable games are ending up in Europe, and staying in Europe. One way to prevent this, well, it should be pretty obvious.

3) don't have to spend X4 the cost on shipping and wait X3 as long before the money is available to really spend.
(a seller should never spend the money from a deal before the buyer is happy with the item)

This is a fault of Ebay/PP empire, not shipping. Buyers have too many freedoms w/ PP, IMHO. Unscrupulous ones can really game the system. The seller should be spending exactly $0 on shipping, so the first part of the argument doesn't hold. It takes longer, but as long as it's not surface it doesn't take that long. Japan's EMS prices are extremely fair, and I realize it's much worse in other parts of the world...especially Europe. But if the buyer is willing to pony up, the seller should accommodate, IMHO. Then again, I've kept my business to a small community (this one, mainly) for most of the 15 years I've done it, and cut out Ebay in the early naughties.

I agree this is largely an issue with Ebay/PP. But it stills stands and if I'm going to charge $X.00 (for item) + $Y.00 (for shipping), I'm technically spending the $Y.00 before I actually have any of the funds moved into my bank account. in other words, I'm fronting the money for shipping any time I sell something, then once I know the buyer is happy, I move X+Y into my bank account.

Now if I'm selling 10 games to US buyers I might have to pony up $40-100 dollars total, now compare that to spending $50 for a single tracked and insured game to EU... $500 total for shipping before any of the sales money is in my bank account, fuck that.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I would imagine it's mostly to do with trust issues. I've never had an issue with "lost" packages, but those stories are fairly common, with certain countries being notorious about it.

I don't see why people would ship anything other than postcards or letters without tracking information/insurance. Really, if I'm paying a hundred bucks for something, I expect that it be shipped with both of those. I'd rather be charged extra for the security of knowing I'll get what I ordered rather than getting it via basic mail and crossing my fingers.

[GaijinPunch]

It is a pretty well known fact that most valuable games are ending up in Europe, and staying in Europe. One way to prevent this, well, it should be pretty obvious.

Japanese people have made the same xenophobic claims for years. Do you own any valuable Japanese games? I know plenty of people here do. Someone in America has some extremely rare Shenmue items I sold them. Not one offs, but close enough. I'm sure he's glad I didn't have the above point of view.

in other words, I'm fronting the money for shipping any time I sell something, then once I know the buyer is happy, I move X+Y into my bank account.

I guess I'm spoiled dealing w/ a smaller user base. I definitely don't think of things like that. Then again, I do so much volume, if something goes awry (and sometimes it does) I need to keep the buyer happy and often take the hit. The cost of doing business, as they say.

now compare that to spending $50 for a single tracked and insured game to EU... $500 total for shipping before any of the sales money is in my bank account, fuck that.

Nobody's going to pay $50 for a single game unless the cost of it is substantially high... I would gather $200 or more. The $50 doesn't seem that bad, especially if shipping abroad yields you a higher price (which it might). So, I'm curious if there is a cheaper (but slower) shipping method that has tracking to protect the seller.

[null1024]

It is a pretty well known fact that most valuable games are ending up in Europe, and staying in Europe. One way to prevent this, well, it should be pretty obvious.

Invade Europe?

[GaijinPunch]

Invade Europe?

Not possible. We'd get lost due to the metric system.

[chempop]

Nobody's going to pay $50 for a single game unless the cost of it is substantially high... I would gather $200 or more. The $50 doesn't seem that bad, especially if shipping abroad yields you a higher price (which it might). So, I'm curious if there is a cheaper (but slower) shipping method that has tracking to protect the seller.

Actually everyone in EU is going to have to pay close to $50 for me to ship them a PCB or other game that requires a bubblewrap and a box (all games require these things imho) because that's how much shipping them with tracking and insurance is going to cost. Yes, it is possible to ship for close to $15-20, but then you are at the total gamble of the post office once it has reached the airport in the US.

To be clear, the only shipping option via United States Post Office that offers tracking once it is in EU is the express option which usually costs over triple the standard option.

chempop wrote:
It is a pretty well known fact that most valuable games are ending up in Europe, and staying in Europe. One way to prevent this, well, it should be pretty obvious.

Japanese people have made the same xenophobic claims for years. Do you own any valuable Japanese games? I know plenty of people here do. Someone in America has some extremely rare Shenmue items I sold them. Not one offs, but close enough. I'm sure he's glad I didn't

It's not xenophobic as you put it, its a matter of value in currency. People are able to make more money from selling to Europeans because of the exchange rates + more Europeans are less likely to sell to people outside of Europe for the same reason. A lot of it has to do with how Europeans often value their games by including the money spent on tax and shipping in addition to the price of game.

I certainly see the irony in how this holds true, despite the thread being about why USA sellers won't ship to Europe (if they are able to make more money). But look at it this way, if I sell a Dodonapchi board to a USA member, then it'll have a chance of being purchased again down the road from a USA member. If I sell and ship that same DDP board overseas, I bet you a milkdud that it's never going to make it back into the USA ever again (because it will magically go from a $500 game to a €600 because the seller decides that the cost of taxes and shipping should be part of the game's value).

[GaijinPunch]

It's not xenophobic as you put it, its a matter of value in currency.

It is if you actually think the item winding up in another country is a problem, which it certainly sounded like.

But look at it this way, if I sell a Dodonapchi board to a USA member, then it'll have a chance of being purchased again down the road from a USA member. If I sell and ship that same DDP board overseas, I bet you a milkdud that it's never going to make it back into the USA ever again

That's the xenophobic part.

Europeans aren't that bad. I've sent countless boards over that way... even to the English.

[retrojc]

Actually everyone in EU is going to have to pay close to $50 for me to ship them a PCB or other game that requires a bubblewrap and a box (all games require these things imho) because that's how much shipping them with tracking and insurance is going to cost.

I think most of us in europe whom sell/buy a lot of high value items expect this entirely. The last Cave kit I sold went to Glasgow from London, tracked and insured cost £26. (£26 is like $50 on a very good day).

Simple, solution is to include some of the postage or all of the postage price in your item fee.